MD - Freddie Gray dies in police custody #3 *INDICTMENT*

[MissSunshine]

Lawyers for six Baltimore police officers charged after the death of Freddie Gray are asking for any grand jury proceedings be transcribed or recorded.

The Daily Record reports*that in a motion filed Monday in Baltimore Circuit Court the lawyers say they are concerned that investigators misidentified facts and applicable law that “should be considered when determining the appropriateness of the charges

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/05/12/charged-officers-seek-expected-grand-jury-recordings/

 

[DEPUTYDAWG]

MOO-

I'm a proponent of the cameras. I've got LE friends that didn't like it years ago when we started putting the video cameras in the patrol cars.
For guilty or not-so-guilty reasons, I can personally attest that one is aware when the cameras are rolling Cussing, by chance? LOL

Then, when I got into a position where IA investigations were reviewed/conducted, I will go on record to state that many officers were CLEARED of wrong doing from citizen complaints because of the videos. More were "saved" by video than found "guilty" by video. But yes, other policy violations would be found, and disciplinary action would ensue, if warranted, or used by chain of command to do learning opportunities.

The desire to have cameras mandatory, and then turn them off if requested? Ummm, no thank you. If a community wants cameras on their officers to weed out the "bad" police, then do it 100%...communicate/educate the community so they know. Many officers will appreciate it, and if I were a betting person, assaults against officers will go down.

JMO, and a little off topic if the topic is only FG's death, but there is much more related to the situation, and it is hard to try to contain it only to his death to completely understand the vibes around it, before, during and after. MOO

 

[dandy]

MOO-

I'm a proponent of the cameras. I've got LE friends that didn't like it years ago when we started putting the video cameras in the patrol cars.
For guilty or not-so-guilty reasons, I can personally attest that one is aware when the cameras are rolling Cussing, by chance? LOL

Then, when I got into a position where IA investigations were reviewed/conducted, I will go on record to state that many officers were CLEARED of wrong doing from citizen complaints because of the videos. More were "saved" by video than found "guilty" by video. But yes, other policy violations would be found, and disciplinary action would ensue, if warranted, or used by chain of command to do learning opportunities.

The desire to have cameras mandatory, and then turn them off if requested? Ummm, no thank you. If a community wants cameras on their officers to weed out the "bad" police, then do it 100%...communicate/educate the community so they know. Many officers will appreciate it, and if I were a betting person, assaults against officers will go down.

JMO, and a little off topic if the topic is only FG's death, but there is much more related to the situation, and it is hard to try to contain it only to his death to completely understand the vibes around it, before, during and after. MOO

i flagged my earlier post requesting mod clarification - but nothing yet.

 

[kimmera]

Does anyone have a link to the actual BPD seatbelt policy? I have googled till my fingers fell off and can't find it. I would like to see the actual wording of it, and also see if there is an exception rule for uncooperative prisoners. TIA.

 

[DebinGA]

Does anyone have a link to the actual BPD seatbelt policy? I have googled till my fingers fell off and can't find it. I would like to see the actual wording of it, and also see if there is an exception rule for uncooperative prisoners. TIA.

I'd like to see that policy too, and the BPD policy detailing in what circumstances leg-shackles are appropriate. And why the van stopped so soon after leaving the arrest site to leg-shackle FG.

 

[Footwarrior]

Does anyone have a link to the actual BPD seatbelt policy? I have googled till my fingers fell off and can't find it. I would like to see the actual wording of it, and also see if there is an exception rule for uncooperative prisoners. TIA.

Suspects are less likely to cooperate when they believe the ride will lead to serious injury or death.

 

[al66pine]

Does anyone have a link to the actual BPD seatbelt policy? I have googled till my fingers fell off and can't find it. I would like to see the actual wording of it, and also see if there is an exception rule for uncooperative prisoners. TIA.

bbm

kimmera
I posted May 3 re 1997 BPD policy/Gen Order re 'restraints or belting in.'
I had same question as you just asked.
After my May 3 post, quoted below, I posted question few times
If anyone answered w quote & link to current BPD policy/Gen Order, I missed it.
Still awaiting an answer w quote & link.

================================================
My post of May 3
Short answer:
I've not found text of new (~2 wks old) BPD policy or gen order re restraints in police van.
Per 1997 BPD policy - Restraining-in was not mandatory for each & every arrestee.
Paraphrasing: default is to restrain, but after evaluating circumstances, not to endanger LEO.
So exceptions on case-by-case basis are part of policy.
-Verbatim-quoting & linking 1997 pol below.
JM2cts.
__________________________________________________ _______________
Long answer, bringing this over from closed thread.
Footwarrior--- Thanks for tracking down policy dated 1997.
http://www.aele.org/law/2009all10/ba...-transport.pdf

"Whenever an arrestee is transported in a police vehicle, ensure:
> That he/she has been searched and handcuffed, (hands cuffed in the rear), before being placed in a prisoner transport vehicle or a “C. P.” truck.
> The arrestee is secured with seat/restraint belts provided. This procedure should be evaluated on an individual basis so not to place oneself in any danger.
> That the seat/restraint belt is placed securely around the waist or upper body of the arrestee to prevent the arrestee from maneuvering out of the restraint and possibly causing injury to them or others." bbm
__________________________________________________ ______________
If anyone can link new policy, it could be different. Anyone?"

=================================================
Anyone have quote & link re BPD 'new policy' which went into effect in late April or early May re LEO restraining or belting in detainee-passengers in LE van.
Is it diff from BPD policy re restraining or belting in detainee-passengers in 'regular' LE patrol car/vehicle?
Thx in adv.

 

[katydid23]

Suspects are less likely to cooperate when they believe the ride will lead to serious injury or death.

Any one and everyone that is put in the van has the chance to sit calmly, and even buckle their own belt if need be. Thousands of rides have happened without incident. JMO

 

[Montjoy]

Any one and everyone that is put in the van has the chance to sit calmly, and even buckle their own belt if need be. Thousands of rides have happened without incident. JMO

Two serious questions here:

-- Are you seriously denying that there is such a thing as a 'rough ride'?

-- Moreover, if you had a family member killed in a rough ride, do you think it would be any consolation to have someone tell you that 'thousands of rides have happened without incident'?

eta:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-rough-ride-and-police-culture/391538/

 

[katydid23]

Even the Atlantic, which I see as a Progressive publication, says the 'rough ride' is a very limited and rare occurrence. I believe it is more lore than fact, although some people have been injured. There have been 3 critically, in the past ten years I believe.

Did M Mosby say that FG was a victim of a rough ride?

 

[Dana]

Katydid, I usually agree with you but a suspect put in a police van would be handcuffed with their hands behind their back. I don't think they'd be able to buckle themselves up. But I have to wonder why busses and trains don't have seat belts.

Did MM charge Goodson of 'rough riding'? If so, has there been any witnesses to that? Surely, in a huge crime area, people there can quickly spot a cop van driving erratically and know immediately what that means and get a video of it.

 

[Montjoy]

Even the Atlantic, which I see as a Progressive publication, says the 'rough ride' is a very limited and rare occurrence.

Fine -- but 'limited and rare' is not the same as 'never'. One 'rough ride' is too many. And undoubtedly we do not have any sort of reliable statistics on how often this happens. People in custody are vulnerable, and if they've already been intimidated by LE, sworn to protect even them, then they're less likely than the average citizen to report wrongdoing. Besides, as these threads have shown us time and again, most people don't believe them anyhow.

 

[DebinGA]

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...gray-investigation-20150502-story.html#page=2

Among other interesting things the BPD FG investigative task force did, this article describes the extraordinary effort made to trace Goodson's route via a rolling-lazer device, manually pushed along the streets by 3-person "Google Team Roll-out".

"To recreate Gray's 45-minute ride in a police van, plainclothes officers rolled a $250,000 laser imaging system on a tripod down potholed roads and cracked sidewalks, ready to tell residents who questioned them that they were city surveyors."

 

[DebinGA]

Suspects are less likely to cooperate when they believe the ride will lead to serious injury or death.

It's entirely possible that Ofc. Goodson had transported FG a number of times before. I've seen nothing suggesting FG had reason to fear Goodson based on past encounters.

 

[CoolJ]

Even the Atlantic, which I see as a Progressive publication, says the 'rough ride' is a very limited and rare occurrence. I believe it is more lore than fact, although some people have been injured. There have been 3 critically, in the past ten years I believe.

Did M Mosby say that FG was a victim of a rough ride?

Well she charged the driver of van with 2nd degree Murder. A "rough ride" is certainly a possibility. We just don't have those details yet. Even the Police union president said it may have been "rough ride".

And, if it turns out it was a rough ride or another malicious assault by A LEO that took FG's life, it does not make ALL LE everywhere guilty of such behaviour. Most reasonable people understand that.

Just put the damn criminals in the clink. Whether they wear blue or not. Stop protecting them just because of the fraternity they belong to.
JMO

 

[MissSunshine]

I have seen posted a few times that the police union president said it may have been a rough ride...I haven't read/heard anything that Gene Ryan said that. If someone could please point me in the right direction because I would be very interested to read that. TIA

 

[kimmera]

__________________________________________________ _______________


"Whenever an arrestee is transported in a police vehicle, ensure:
> That he/she has been searched and handcuffed, (hands cuffed in the rear), before being placed in a prisoner transport vehicle or a “C. P.” truck.
> The arrestee is secured with seat/restraint belts provided. This procedure should be evaluated on an individual basis so not to place oneself in any danger.
> That the seat/restraint belt is placed securely around the waist or upper body of the arrestee to prevent the arrestee from maneuvering out of the restraint and possibly causing injury to them or others." bbm

RSBM. Thanks so much. So we know that the policy was in effect for a long time, so I wonder what is different on the new one? Or are they just ENFORCING the old one? Or did they make it stricter, like take the disclaimer out deferring to the officer's safety and discretion? :thinking:

 

[MissSunshine]

Attorneys for Sgt. Alicia White say their client only interacted with Freddie Gray for a few seconds. They say that’s not enough for the charges against her.
snip
She was in the wrong place at the wrong time and had nothing to do with this,” said her attorney, Tony Garcia.
snip
Garcia says state’s attorney Marilyn Mosby put speed in front of justice in filing the charges. While the FOP has called for Mosby to recuse herself, Garcia says he’d prefer to face her in court.

“When the music stops, I want her to be in the courtroom. Right here. Face the accuser,” he said.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/...fficer-charged-in-freddie-grays-death-unjust/

 

[DebinGA]

Mosby says Sgt. White "talked to his head", suggesting FG was on the floor with his head near the back door. Mosby said FG was "unresponsive", not unconscious. His eyes might have been open and blinking, his breathing quasi-normal for a frightened person, and he might have seemed to her simply unwilling to speak to her at that time.

 

[Goose22]

But I have to wonder why busses and trains don't have seat belts.

It's so if there's an accident or a fire the passengers can leave as quickly as possible without the seatbelt impeding them. This would be especially important with handcuffed passengers and children, probably.