CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

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I think the cell phone pings, plus Jay's story helped them arrive at the time of death. Neither one are accurate as they don't match.

I don't believe Adnan was involved in the murder. I believe that his behavior matches wrongfully convicted Ryan Ferguson's in a sense. Ryan Ferguson is trying to help the guy who got him wrongfully convicted get released. What would the textbook response be? Probably to be angry. Everyone reacts how they'll react. I don't buy Jay's story, Urich's story, and I've seen too many good and bad prosecutors to know that sadly Hae didn't get the justice she deserved.
 
circe221 said:
How did they arrive at such a precise time of death?
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From what I can tell ,and I have read court transcripts ,police reports documents etc..

It looks as if they picked 2:36 because it is the only time period that makes the come get me call possible. It also fits with the something happened to Hae before 330 when she was due to pick up her cousin. It leave only an an 8 minutes window for Jay to get to Adnan and drive him back to school to be seen by the witness who saw him ,and Hae was also seen after this time.
 
commentary from the Baltimore Sun:

Improper race and religion references in Adnan Syed trial
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-syed-trial-20150128-story.html

The very start of Mr. Syed's trial raised serious questions about whether the Constitution's mandate of "equal protection" was respected. The prosecutor introduced the Baltimore teen by saying, "The defendant is of Pakistani background, he's a Muslim." He encouraged the jury to consider the defendant's ethnicity, religion and involvement in the (unexplained) institution described only as "Islamic culture."

...

Such references to the defendant's background were persistent throughout the trial. In a recent interview with the online publication The Intercept, the prosecutor now suggests that domestic violence motivated the murder, but we identified no testimony about the defendant's jealousy or anger against the victim in the trial transcripts. In contrast, the prosecutor repeatedly referred to the tenets of the Islamic faith and suggested that the defendant's apparently disobeying them by dating the victim was itself proof of guilt.
 
i go back and forth on Adnan's guilt, but his trial was a mess. also despite what we know about his defense counsel now..her voice would have been enough for me to look elsewhere! lol :laughing:
 
btw, totally OT has anyone checked out the Sword and Scale podcast? some interesting stuff. Episode 2 is not for the faint hearted.....at least not the first 10 minutes or so, but some very interesting recaps on familiar stories and some new things
 
Hi Lola, it's good but intense. I haven't listened to all of them yet. The recentish two episodes on Luka Magnotta were almost too much for me. It's powerful stuff.


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Lola said:
btw, totally OT has anyone checked out the Sword and Scale podcast? some interesting stuff. Episode 2 is not for the faint hearted.....at least not the first 10 minutes or so, but some very interesting recaps on familiar stories and some new things
Click to expand...

Sword and Scale is brilliant! He did a great job on the Luka Magnotta case!
 
I started working where I have to drive a bit to get there and was thinking about listening to The sword and the scale. I will tomorrow ,thanks for the tip.

I guess we just update the court link on this case. The other day on Split the moon there were more transcripts released and also on the blog it posted a police report of a tip around the time they found Hae's body. Worth the read. I suspect this case will keep us hanging for a while.
 
Lola said:
btw, totally OT has anyone checked out the Sword and Scale podcast? some interesting stuff. Episode 2 is not for the faint hearted.....at least not the first 10 minutes or so, but some very interesting recaps on familiar stories and some new things
Click to expand...
Thanks for the recommendation. I had never heard of it. I will be listening to it today.
 
Hi I am still on episode 9 but had to come here right away. What seriously bothers me most about this entire thing is that
we are talking about teenagers and it really bothers me that as soon as Adnan heard about JAY's story that he did not (if he really was the killer) point a finger at JAY, say that Jay actually killed her and then it would have been one word against the other. IMO at 17 if you really did kill your girlfriend and this guy who was "the criminal element" of the school betrays you and picked him because of his criminal history, why oh why wouldn't you (the good boy) then point a finger at Jay? Adnan never in what I could see does this! not event today 15 years later!

It super duper bothers me that JAY has all the plot points like where the car is, the body is and how she died in perfect line, all of it true. However the parts about how he found out about it and where he actually met up with Adnan shifts, where he went with adnan throughout the day shifts too.

It bothers me again that he is alone with Jen when getting rid of the evidence, shovels etc. he needs to explain why he is alone and he gives us that Adnan had to be back at the track, where he knew Adnan was for sure. How he got him there on time and then agreed to get rid of evidence on Adnan's behalf is off just off.

Jay does seem like a nice guy, and Adnan seems totally full of himself and so manipulative that even with the above bothering me, I can see
how the jury convicted Adnan, the judge's words about Adnan's charisma, his popularity, his way of speaking and how that is how he thought he would get away with it all, that stuck with me too.

But in 1999 I feel at 17 you would make some major mistakes while trying to kill your girlfriend and dispose of her and that "anonymous caller"?? That bothers me too! Seems like someone did not want to wait for the police to find Adnan, they wanted to control the situation. MO
 
Mendara said:
Hi I am still on episode 9 but had to come here right away. What seriously bothers me most about this entire thing is that
we are talking about teenagers and it really bothers me that as soon as Adnan heard about JAY's story that he did not (if he really was the killer) point a finger at JAY, say that Jay actually killed her and then it would have been one word against the other. IMO at 17 if you really did kill your girlfriend and this guy who was "the criminal element" of the school betrays you and picked him because of his criminal history, why oh why wouldn't you (the good boy) then point a finger at Jay? Adnan never in what I could see does this! not event today 15 years later!

It super duper bothers me that JAY has all the plot points like where the car is, the body is and how she died in perfect line, all of it true. However the parts about how he found out about it and where he actually met up with Adnan shifts, where he went with adnan throughout the day shifts too.

It bothers me again that he is alone with Jen when getting rid of the evidence, shovels etc. he needs to explain why he is alone and he gives us that Adnan had to be back at the track, where he knew Adnan was for sure. How he got him there on time and then agreed to get rid of evidence on Adnan's behalf is off just off.

Jay does seem like a nice guy, and Adnan seems totally full of himself and so manipulative that even with the above bothering me, I can see
how the jury convicted Adnan, the judge's words about Adnan's charisma, his popularity, his way of speaking and how that is how he thought he would get away with it all, that stuck with me too.

But in 1999 I feel at 17 you would make some major mistakes while trying to kill your girlfriend and dispose of her and that "anonymous caller"?? That bothers me too! Seems like someone did not want to wait for the police to find Adnan, they wanted to control the situation. MO
Click to expand...

I strongly recommend http://viewfromll2.com/ for comprehensive case info that is helpful to understanding some of the crazy.
 
Adnan was granted an appeal
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ba...on-to-reappeal-conviction-20150207-story.html

The Maryland Court of Special Appeals approved Adnan Syed's application for leave to appeal on Friday, which claimed his attorney, Christina Gutierrez, was ineffective. The rare ruling that is the first step for Syed to challenge his murder conviction.

His appeal is scheduled to be heard in June 2015.
 
Md. court allows Adnan Syed to appeal his conviction in ‘Serial’ case

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...syed-to-appeal-his-conviction-in-serial-case/

The decision by the Maryland Court of Special Appeals, which was filed Friday, allows Syed’s lawyers to move forward with the appeals process. It overturns a Baltimore circuit court’s decision in January to deny Syed’s motion to appeal his conviction on the grounds that his attorney at the time, Christina Gutierrez, had been ineffective.
 
Elley Mae said:
Md. court allows Adnan Syed to appeal his conviction in ‘Serial’ case

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...syed-to-appeal-his-conviction-in-serial-case/

The decision by the Maryland Court of Special Appeals, which was filed Friday, allows Syed’s lawyers to move forward with the appeals process. It overturns a Baltimore circuit court’s decision in January to deny Syed’s motion to appeal his conviction on the grounds that his attorney at the time, Christina Gutierrez, had been ineffective.
Click to expand...

I'm glad of this. I don't know if he's innocent- on the fence. But I do think there was too much reasonable doubt.
 
I really don't know what to believe with this case. I am fine with him getting an appeal. Like someone else stated earlier, he certainly does sound fine being in prison (blows me away how he was able to keep a cell phone in his cell for so long). I can't put a lot of credibility in most of the players' testimony, as it seems they all have some type of agenda. The thing that stands out for me though is the very short time period between them getting out of school and the reported time of death. It's like a half hour? How is that possible? It's not like he's a serial killer and experienced. And it didn't seem like they had an extremely deep, Romeo & Juliet type of teenaged love affair that he would be so despondent over her dating someone else. Just seemed like the typical dating scenario. But I'm certainly no fan of his. He comes across as arrogant and cocky and certainly not screaming from the prison cell that he's innocent and demanding justice.
 
The reported time of death is an assumption based on the phone log.

Jay never said Hae was killed by 2:36pm. LE said it had to be done by that time since that was the only call that matched Jay's timeline that Adnan called him from Best Buy.

The letter that Hae wrote to Adnan tells us that he was more upset about the break up than his peers knew. And the "I will kill" note he wrote on the note he passed with Hae's friend, that was creepy!

I still think Adnan did it. His level of comfort in prison and the fact that he's never lashed out at Jay is very odd.


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