CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

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justtrish said:
If it's one of the suspects that would have no known reason to have ever been in her car or in a position to touch her shoes when she was alive or otherwise, then that would be very telling. I really hope in this case that is what they have.
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Exactly. That would be my bet
 
justtrish said:
If it's one of the suspects that would have no known reason to have ever been in her car or in a position to touch her shoes when she was alive or otherwise, then that would be very telling. I really hope in this case that is what they have.
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I also don't think a DA would vacate a conviction lightly. I don't think they would do that even if there was a chance of the person being the murderer. Anyone with an inkling of the American justice system can see that.
 
Smkd said:
Also why do people keep insisting that there was no Brady violation?? It’s baffling to me that people think they know better than a judge who had all the info. The court ruled that “the state has proven that there was a Brady violation.”. No two ways about it.
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For people who believed that he was the murderer, the incredulity of a Brady violation ruling is the last thing to hold on to because he has had (as some believe) too many bites at this apple. Now, there is the Brady violation and DNA evidence that does not support that Mr. Syed did this. So, is it right that a man who was seen by the courts with a Brady violation to get no relief? No, IMHO. And, there is a bolster of the DNA findings which is a double "no" for fairness under the law, in my book anyway. Is it better to keep an innocent person in jail? Or, is it better to keep this innocent person in jail?
 
IIRC, Adnan turned down a recent (last few years) plea deal, all he had to do was to plead guilty and he would be out after 20. I think it was explained in the podcast "undisclosed". That spoke volumes to me, that he was willing to spend the rest of his life in prison rather than falsely plead guilty. IMO, the Lee family should get another attorney that is not so combative. I feel terrible for her family, but continuing to punish a different family unfairly is not the solution. I don't think their attorney is helping them out with his insistence that they weren't notified, when the State's attorney for Baltimore city claims that she can show emails that they were throughout many steps in this process. The attorney makes it sound like the decision by the Judge came as a surprising, horrifying lightning bolt. A more thoughtful attorney could help them monitor what is to come in the case against others and find justice for Hae Min Lee. Just my opinion.

I don't see anyone mentioning the Maryland "Juvenile Restoration Act (JRA)" which was part of the sentencing review of Adnan Syed's case. In addition to providing the judicial review after 20 years served, the act, law, would now prevent juveniles like Syed of receiving life without parole sentences.


Also, although definitely not an attorney, I've always been intrigued with "Blackstone's Ratio: It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer". That's a simplistic introduction to the concept and its ramifications which I don't have the background to explain. In modern history It ties into beyond a reasonable doubt as the burden of proof. if anyone is interested please look it up on Wiki, they have a great article with a lot of citations and avenues for further research.

JMO.
 
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From Baltimore Sun:

The Maryland Court of Special Appeals is ordering Hae Min Lee’s family to explain in writing within 15 days why their appeal of a trial judge’s decision to overturn Adnan Syed’s murder conviction should continue, given that the state dropped Syed’s charges Tuesday.

The Lee family, led by Hae Min Lee’s brother Young Lee, is appealing Baltimore Circuit Judge Melissa Phinn’s Sept. 19 decision to overturn Syed’s conviction on the grounds they weren’t given enough notice to reasonably participate in that hearing. In Maryland, victims of crime and their families have some rights to participate in the criminal cases involving them, although there is debate as to exactly what those rights are in certain cases. Court orders Hae Min Lee’s family to explain why their appeal of the overturning of Adnan Syed’s conviction should continue
 
kaen said:
From Baltimore Sun:

The Maryland Court of Special Appeals is ordering Hae Min Lee’s family to explain in writing within 15 days why their appeal of a trial judge’s decision to overturn Adnan Syed’s murder conviction should continue, given that the state dropped Syed’s charges Tuesday.

The Lee family, led by Hae Min Lee’s brother Young Lee, is appealing Baltimore Circuit Judge Melissa Phinn’s Sept. 19 decision to overturn Syed’s conviction on the grounds they weren’t given enough notice to reasonably participate in that hearing. In Maryland, victims of crime and their families have some rights to participate in the criminal cases involving them, although there is debate as to exactly what those rights are in certain cases. Court orders Hae Min Lee’s family to explain why their appeal of the overturning of Adnan Syed’s conviction should continue
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The Lee family has every right to feel betrayed in believing justice had been served for the last 20 years! However, absolutely none of that is the fault of AS!

Making AS the target of their outrage, when it should be directed at the system that imprisoned an innocent man for 20 years, while letting whoever murdered their family member run free, is exhausting and misguided. I hope they move on from this quickly and refocus their energy on seeking justice for HML once again.

Separately- The Lee family likely does not have rights to participate in the hearing because this hearing has nothing to do with them or the murder of HML. It's solely to overturn a wrongful conviction.

IMO. MOO. YMMV.
 
JMapes said:
The Lee family has every right to feel betrayed in believing justice had been served for the last 20 years! However, absolutely none of that is the fault of AS!

Making AS the target of their outrage, when it should be directed at the system that imprisoned an innocent man for 20 years, while letting whoever murdered their family member run free, is exhausting and misguided. I hope they move on from this quickly and refocus their energy on seeking justice for HML once again.

Separately- The Lee family likely does not have rights to participate in the hearing because this hearing has nothing to do with them or the murder of HML. It's solely to overturn a wrongful conviction.

IMO. MOO. YMMV.
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IIRC they have some kind of ill defined "victims rights" to be informed of what is going on. But Syed's attorneys have lodged many appeals over the years. So it's not like the Lee family has been complacently fooled by the courts for 23 years and suddenly surprised. They have recently participated in zoom court appearances set up by the prosecution, and they have a lawyer who represents them. The State's Attorney for Baltimore explained a few days ago that she is barred by law from contacting the family, she has to go through their atty.

I don't get it that they seem to ifnore Maryland law as I detailed above. Many people convicted to life in prison without parole when they were children are getting a judicial review now, which is what Syed received. (I described that in a post above). Any atty worth being paid would request the judicial review once their client, convicted as a child, does pass 20 years incarcerated. So the Lee family's lawyer should explain the law to them. So they don't misplace their rage.

IMO
 
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www.cnn.com

In the wake of Adnan Syed's overturned murder conviction, many questions remain about the unsolved case | CNN

After Baltimore prosecutors decided this week to drop all charges against Adnan Syed, the man who spent more than two decades behind bars for the 1999 killing of his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee, a key question remains: Who will be held accountable for Lee's death?
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

"Mosby denied her office did not properly notify the Lee family, saying they were “the first ones to receive a copy of the motion to vacate even before we filed it.”

Jaros said the family’s argument will be difficult to prove because the judge’s decision was focused on the evidence not provided by the state to the defense, not a resentencing in which the court must consider a victim impact statement.

Mosby’s subsequent decision to dismiss the charges has further complicated the family’s options for recourse, he added.

In this case, Jaros said it is unlikely the family had a right to participate in the process, but they did still have a right to receive proper notice.

“The outstanding question is, did the state’s attorney give the family reasonable notice that this process was happening when they found out just a few days before? And if they were successfully to argue it was not reasonable notice, does that mean the remedy is to do this over when there is no input needed from the victims?” he added."
 
NuttMegg said:
www.cnn.com

In the wake of Adnan Syed's overturned murder conviction, many questions remain about the unsolved case | CNN

After Baltimore prosecutors decided this week to drop all charges against Adnan Syed, the man who spent more than two decades behind bars for the 1999 killing of his ex-girlfriend Hae Min Lee, a key question remains: Who will be held accountable for Lee's death?
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

"Mosby denied her office did not properly notify the Lee family, saying they were “the first ones to receive a copy of the motion to vacate even before we filed it.”

Jaros said the family’s argument will be difficult to prove because the judge’s decision was focused on the evidence not provided by the state to the defense, not a resentencing in which the court must consider a victim impact statement.

Mosby’s subsequent decision to dismiss the charges has further complicated the family’s options for recourse, he added.

In this case, Jaros said it is unlikely the family had a right to participate in the process, but they did still have a right to receive proper notice.

“The outstanding question is, did the state’s attorney give the family reasonable notice that this process was happening when they found out just a few days before? And if they were successfully to argue it was not reasonable notice, does that mean the remedy is to do this over when there is no input needed from the victims?” he added."
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Off cuff, this sounds like to me he is saying "" we dont care if this guy is innocent ,the murder victims family needs to have him in jail ,until they had enough time to get over ,the innocent person 20+year unjust conviction? "
Is it me or does anyone else think it sounds like that?
 
Soulmagent said:
Off cuff, this sounds like to me he is saying "" we dont care if this guy is innocent ,the murder victims family needs to have him in jail ,until they had enough time to get over ,the innocent person 20+year unjust conviction? "
Is it me or does anyone else think it sounds like that?
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Given that other article that sds71 just posted, I really can't believe that the Maryland Office of the Attorney General wants to represent the Lee family, that is mind boggling. If I have that correct, that the state attorney general is lending its heft, money, time, resources etc to represent that family. They had a lawyer who was supposed to keep them advised of all the happenings. So now, the feelings of the Lee family are more important than the lack of justice shown towards Syed who served 23 years. This just wreaks of politics, someone has their nose out of joint that Mosby got kudos for her work.
IMO IMO

Can you even imagine that now, after his conviction has been vacated by a judge, that this atty gen of Maryland wants that overturned and Syed sent back to prison?

My opinion only........During the first trial a lot of stuff came out about the extent of the 2 teens' behavior that would not have been condoned by either family culturally. A lot more than just dancing and dating. I have always thought that the Lees could be blaming Syed for leading their daughter astray, although the Serial podcast painted both teens in the same light in terms of behavior. When Syed was released, it was no longer possible to blame him for all the things they did mutually in dating, it also was not possible to blame him for killing her. Her own behavior was her decision as was his Presumably the decisions she made in her other relationships were her choice too. He had other girlfriends, she had other boyfriends, Syed did not tarnish her. Other of her male acquaintances were left off the hook in the campaign to blame A Syed.
 
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NuttMegg said:
Given that other article that sds71 just posted, I really can't believe that the Maryland Office of the Attorney General wants to represent the Lee family, that is mind boggling. If I have that correct, that the state attorney general is lending its heft, money, time, resources etc to represent that family. They had a lawyer who was supposed to keep them advised of all the happenings. So now, the feelings of the Lee family are more important than the lack of justice shown towards Syed who served 23 years. This just wreaks of politics, someone has their nose out of joint that Mosby got kudos for her work.
IMO IMO

Can you even imagine that now, after his conviction has been vacated by a judge, that this atty gen of Maryland wants that overturned and Syed sent back to prison?

My opinion only........During the first trial a lot of stuff came out about the extent of the 2 teens' behavior that would not have been condoned by either family culturally. A lot more than just dancing and dating. I have always thought that the Lees could be blaming Syed for leading their daughter astray, although the Serial podcast painted both teens in the same light in terms of behavior. When Syed was released, it was no longer possible to blame him for all the things they did mutually in dating, it also was not possible to blame him for killing her. Her own behavior was her decision as was his Presumably the decisions she made in her other relationships were her choice too. He had other girlfriends, she had other boyfriends, Syed did not tarnish her. Other of her male acquaintances were left off the hook in the campaign to blame A Syed.
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I have read more since the first off the cuff ..OMG! Below snipped.

"" The Office of the Attorney General is not interested in using this appeal to litigate culpability for an alleged Brady violation.5 Nor does it intend to argue the merits of the motion to vacate 5 The alleged Brady violation is not being litigated in this appeal because it is irrelevant to whether the State complied with the law relating to victims in criminal cases. To be clear, the Attorney General vehemently denies Ms. Mosby’s unfounded accusation that anyone in the Office hatched an intentional plot to “sit on” exculpatory evidence for seven years.""

MY Guy!! She said what! No she ditten! I picture this guy fighting with his little sister alot.
 
Soulmagent said:
I have read more since the first off the cuff ..OMG! Below snipped.

"" The Office of the Attorney General is not interested in using this appeal to litigate culpability for an alleged Brady violation.5 Nor does it intend to argue the merits of the motion to vacate 5 The alleged Brady violation is not being litigated in this appeal because it is irrelevant to whether the State complied with the law relating to victims in criminal cases. To be clear, the Attorney General vehemently denies Ms. Mosby’s unfounded accusation that anyone in the Office hatched an intentional plot to “sit on” exculpatory evidence for seven years.""

MY Guy!! She said what! No she ditten! I picture this guy fighting with his little sister alot.
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LOL!!! So he's going to court to appeal the vacation of Syed's conviction by saying "BUT BUT BUT she said we SAT on evidence!!" Did. Did not. Did too.

Too funny, thanks for that. So basically he's just using that poor Lee family and threatening Syed for some tit for tat. Is he up for election soon?
 
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NuttMegg said:
LOL!!! So he's going to court to appeal the vacation of Syed's conviction by saying "BUT BUT BUT she said we SAT on evidence!!" Did. Did not. Did too.

Too funny, thanks for that. So basically he's just using that poor Lee family and threatening Syed for some tit for tat. Is he up for election soon?
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Oh i do not know ,but they did make a political arrest the other day ..I will bbl with info on that ..i heard about it but havent seen it in the news yet .So maybe this is all a distraction ?
 
There seems to be so much energy put into the idea of keeping Adnan Syed in their sights. I would think that if they are serious about respecting the Lee family they would begin to investigate this crime properly and thoroughly leading to where the evidence leads. Ugggghhh. It is so frustrating to see these articles jawboning everything but finding her killer.
 
kaen said:
There seems to be so much energy put into the idea of keeping Adnan Syed in their sights. I would think that if they are serious about respecting the Lee family they would begin to investigate this crime properly and thoroughly leading to where the evidence leads. Ugggghhh. It is so frustrating to see these articles jawboning everything but finding her killer.
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This is like a whole weird side show.

 
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