CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[Gardenlady]

Hae was seen driving away from the circle alone in her car.......


I absolutely cannot wait until the 2 trial transcripts are posted, it appears they are being dropped ransome style.
Deirdra Enrights C-vill interveiw.

http://insidecville.com/city/enright-1-5-14/

Alone at the circle, perhaps, but I suspect she picked up Adnan at the exit of the parking lot, or even the library (which is basically across the street), on her way out.


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[circe221]

thanks for all the links

there's a new interview posted with the prosecutor - from the 2nd trial - part 2 is coming out tomorrow

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/01/07/prosecutor-serial-case-goes-record/

After reading this, I really, REALLY dislike Sara Koenig even more than I did before.

 

[Gardenlady]

After reading this, I really, REALLY dislike Sara Koenig even more than I did before.

I really LOVE This American life (serial's "mother show", for those not familiar - and yes,if anyone is missing the storytelling aspect of serial, all of TAL is available online ), and I definitely liked Koenig before this, and I do enjoy her style of storytelling - but I am really disappointed with what she left out of the storyline Serial.


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[circe221]

Serial is my first exposure to Ms. Koenig.
While listening, I was struck by how she often sounded like a starstruck teenager.
Her voice and vocal cadence grated on my nerves, but I would have overlooked that if I thought the content of what she was saying was worth it. It wasn't.
After reading that interview with the Prosecutor (and yes, I know that is his perspective, so I am sure the "truth" of what happened during the trial is somewhere in the middle), I truly believe that Koenig did not approach Serial with the objectivity that she attempted to portray. She clearly had an agenda, and that agenda included some manipulation of the facts to suit her storyline.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

I just finished this podcast. Koenig annoyed me more than I can express.

First of all--her calls with Adnan were so gross at times. She sounded flirty and inappropriate. And when he point blank asked her "why are you trying to help me?" her whole, "because you seem SO NICE" was just icky. I could almost see her fluttering her eyelashes.

Her speaking voice grated on my nerves as well. The way she would constantly say, "I get that" and drag out "sooooooooo" and "I meannnnnnnn...yeahhhhhh". UGH.

Personally? I think Adnan is probably guilty. I think Koenig was painfully naive about it all. If I was on the jury I would have convicted him too given just the evidence she watered down. The idea that Jay is now being harassed and hurt by this bothers me greatly. He should sue, her whole witch hunt was so irresponsible. Does she not consider, "what if what Jay is saying is 100% correct"? She doesn't know either way. Yet she is setting him up to be hated and vilified and there are crazy, crazy people out there.

If I had to guess I'd say Adnan is a psychopath. He was overly confident, CRAZY smart, cheerful and always ONE HUNDRED PERCENT SURE that no evidence would be found. He returns to that fact over and over. Why? Because he is insanely intelligent and covered his bases.

RIP Hae Min. You sounded extraordinary.

Edited to add, no one butt dialed in 1999!!! Cell phones were enormous and you certainly didn't carry them in the back of your pocket! I mean they were HUGE! I still fondly recall my big old motorola flip phone, which was sleek by the standards of the time. Koenig's weird fixation on that call that she says could have been butt dialed was driving me insane. She kept judging everything by today's standards. Horrible investigative skills, imo. Maybe I'm being overly critical because of my aversion to her in general.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

An article criticizing Koenig:
http://blog.sfgate.com/stew/2015/01/08/serials-sarah-koenig-criticized-in-adnan-syed-case/

 

[JaimeSommers]

Koenig did an episode of This American Life a few years ago called "#1 Party School" about Penn State. While Penn State certainly has its share of issues with drunk and irresponsible students --- I can say this as someone who lived there for 25 years --- the manner in which Koenig presented her story was equally irresponsible and completely manipulative.

Any adult stupid enough to set up house right in the middle of undergraduate and frat housing gets what they get. There are wonderful, quiet, and private neighborhoods in which professionals live at Penn State, away from undergrad housing. She bought her ticket and then b*tched about taking the ride. No respect for her particular style of "journalism," particularly with such a large platform.

 

[kemo]

I didn't feel she was that "pro Adnan but she was definitely encouraging him to believe that she was "on his side" an co-operating with her could help his case. Perhaps she is even hoping he will turn out to be innocent.

I'm inclined to think Adnan is guilty but I think it all comes down to the Credibility of Jenn. I am waiting for the rest of the interview with the prosecutor.

 

[Soulmagent]

There is a whole lot of drama going on concerning the intercept interveiws ,the editor has not released the rest of Urick's. Tons of twitter drama it is kinda gross to watch adult professionals act out this way.

Circe221 ,some of what you state in your post is incorrect ,not by your fault but because the article you read it in was wrong. There are edited notes on the article now but even still it is misleading.
Farther more it is my opinion that Urick tells and outright lie in it

Garden Lady I wont speculate that he could have got into her car, after the witness watched her drive off.

I did feel Sarah sounded star-struck at points as well. The coy sounding voice ,you could just picture her twirling her hair. Yuck! I did enjoy Serial in spite of it. I knew Adnan wouldnt be able to say much due to his court issues and lawyer telling him not to talk.

I really believe Adnan to be innocent. I really believe Jay to be adding Adnan to his story. Jen and a Jay family member have been co defendants in a court case so if you question why she would remain instep with Jays lies ,there seem to be reasons.

People seem to think that there is no motive for Jay ,but really could have been robbery. If Adnan planned to kill Hae he would have no reason to take her wallet. That one thing fits no where with a planned killing or a freaked out boyfriend. It only fits with a robbery.
Hae had a job and a new car , Jay's description of her is

For our age group, she was really independent. I believe she had a job also. But she seemed to be more mature, like she was two, three, four years older than us. Like she was a junior in college. The way she moved and went about her day. She just seemed like an older chick who happened to be in high school. She also wasn’t on the magnet side of the demographic

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/12/29/exclusive-interview-jay-wilds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

I dunno maybe it is just me. Jay plead guilty to his charges in her death ,and still he lies. No reason for it that makes any of his lie sound legit to lie about. The shovels from his house and hiding them with Jenn and not Adnan is another huge factor in what weight I give him.

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

Soulmagnet, I do have to give it to Adnan that his defense attorney sounded like a nutjob shrew and probably colored the jury's opinion of the case--NOT in his favor and not his fault. Those clips of her screaming at the witnesses were cringeworthy.

Again, my own opinion could be influenced by a really instant and strong dislike for Koenig. I can't explain it. But for a murder case there seemed to be enough evidence against him to make him feel more guilty than not. Certainly Jay could have made the whole thing up, and the fact he led cops to her car should have raised all sorts of suspicion about him...but ultimately Adnan was completely incapable of reconstructing where he had been and repeatedly seemed unconcerned (chuckling at times even) about just flat out not remembering. And the way his voice changed when he would insist there would be no evidence to find sounded prideful to me. He came across as smarmy and a little too "likeable". Although I did like it when even *he* seemed skeeved out by Koenig's infatuation. In fact I liked that very much! lol

As for Jay, he was definitely no angel but he served his time and deserves to move on with his life. If he is a man who got another man wrongly convicted and got away with the murder of a young woman then, yeah, I'll eat my words and definitely reconsider my intuition. As for now I can only presume the jury made the best decision they could based on the evidence and I feel pretty much exactly like Koenig's producer....if Adnan is innocent then he is pretty much the unluckiest man in the world given all of the situations that frame his guilt.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

As for Jay, he was definitely no angel but he served his time and deserves to move on with his life. If he is a man who got another man wrongly convicted and got away with the murder of a young woman then, yeah, I'll eat my words and definitely reconsider my intuition. As for now I can only presume the jury made the best decision they could based on the evidence and I feel pretty much exactly like Koenig's producer....if Adnan is innocent then he is pretty much the unluckiest man in the world given all of the situations that frame his guilt.

Jay served what time?

 

[sfbaynancydrew]

Jay served what time?

Fair enough distinction, he fulfilled the terms of his probation. Whether deserved or undeserved, the court doled out a sentence they saw fit and he completed it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Serial is my first exposure to Ms. Koenig.
While listening, I was struck by how she often sounded like a starstruck teenager.
Her voice and vocal cadence grated on my nerves, but I would have overlooked that if I thought the content of what she was saying was worth it. It wasn't.
After reading that interview with the Prosecutor (and yes, I know that is his perspective, so I am sure the "truth" of what happened during the trial is somewhere in the middle), I truly believe that Koenig did not approach Serial with the objectivity that she attempted to portray. She clearly had an agenda, and that agenda included some manipulation of the facts to suit her storyline.

I agree, and she couldn't .. because if her conclusion was that she had found a guilty man in prison (where he belongs) the story dies, there is no story, there's no catch, the human drama element was lost, unless of course Adnan had confessed to her or similar. Innocent man in prison = drama. Guilty man in prison = meh.

 

[Jessen]

Where is part 2??? Very suspicious.

 

[circe221]

There is a whole lot of drama going on concerning the intercept interveiws ,the editor has not released the rest of Urick's. Tons of twitter drama it is kinda gross to watch adult professionals act out this way.

Circe221 ,some of what you state in your post is incorrect ,not by your fault but because the article you read it in was wrong. There are edited notes on the article now but even still it is misleading.
Farther more it is my opinion that Urick tells and outright lie in it

Could you be more specific as to what I stated that was "incorrect"? Most of it was my opinion, but I am curious as to what in the article was wrong.

 

[circe221]

Something else to note, Adnan has had what? 14 years to stew about this. His seemingly "confident" answers seemed more like he had rehearsed them, or at least convinced himself that that was the truth. I truly believe some people believe their own lies. And if he was in some sort of "state" at the time of the murder, he may not even be completely aware of his own actions. But I do think he knows he did it.

And yes, there would be no story without the element of doubt, however, I think Koenig's presentation of that doubt was WAY overblown than what it actually is in reality. The mere fact that she was approached by someone associated with Adnan (Rabia) kind of frames the angle she was coming from. I felt that both Rabia's and Adnan's mother's insistence that he was innocent was based more on pure emotion than actual factual evidence or the totality of the circumstances. They could not accept that he did this, so therefore they eliminate that possibility entirely from their thought process. Koenig seems to have adopted their mindset, and filtered her entire presentation through that lens. She bought into the hype, possibly even more so because she found him attractive. The "But you don't even know me" part was cringeworthy. It was like a middle school girl getting rejected by her crush. I was embarrassed for Koenig and actually felt bad for her, and I don't even like her.

***The above I say based on my own opinion after listening to the Serial Podcast itself, not the interview with Urick.

 

[Meraxes]

While it wasn't "evidence," really, what stood out to me is that when Hae went missing, everybody who knew her was trying to call her, hoping she would answer to say she was okay. Adnan did not make one single phone call to Hae's number after she went missing, even though he had called her multiple times in the days leading up to her disappearance. Very telling, imo.

FWIW, Don never attempted to contact her either.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Serial is my first exposure to Ms. Koenig.
While listening, I was struck by how she often sounded like a starstruck teenager.
Her voice and vocal cadence grated on my nerves, but I would have overlooked that if I thought the content of what she was saying was worth it. It wasn't.
After reading that interview with the Prosecutor (and yes, I know that is his perspective, so I am sure the "truth" of what happened during the trial is somewhere in the middle), I truly believe that Koenig did not approach Serial with the objectivity that she attempted to portray. She clearly had an agenda, and that agenda included some manipulation of the facts to suit her storyline.

Would you be willing to elaborate what you mean by manipulating facts?

I'm still looking for any facts, manipulated or not. There is a huge lack of them in this case.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

After reading this, I really, REALLY dislike Sara Koenig even more than I did before.

Is this because the prosecutor said she never contacted him? If so, the intercept posted a "correction" adding the rest of his comment that SK may have tried to email him but he didn't know for sure.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Edited to add, no one butt dialed in 1999!!! Cell phones were enormous and you certainly didn't carry them in the back of your pocket! I mean they were HUGE! I still fondly recall my big old motorola flip phone, which was sleek by the standards of the time. Koenig's weird fixation on that call that she says could have been butt dialed was driving me insane. She kept judging everything by today's standards. Horrible investigative skills, imo. Maybe I'm being overly critical because of my aversion to her in general.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2380472/thumbs/o-SERIAL-CELL-PHONE-570.jpg

This is the kind of cell phone Adnan had.

Edited to add this photo is from a HuffPo article. Didn't realize the link would convert to the photo directly!