CONVICTION OVERTURNED MD - Hae Min Lee, 17, Baltimore, 13 Jan 1999

[cujenn81]

Thanks, LilszOG. Maybe you could start a thread on his case here? I'm interested to know what others think. I know some of the evidence looks really bad, but I just don't think he did it. It just doesn't make any sense. I don't know who else could have, however. I can only think of someone who was strung out on meth or something--it's just so savage. I don't think anyone who just stabbed someone 100 times would not be out of breath and able to talk normally. He also seemed to be appropriately hysterical. If he had done it, he could have cleaned up and changed clothes before calling 911. Adam Lane, the truck driver serial killer has been suggested as well. The key was in the door, and we know Lane would just go to houses and try doors. As far as is known, he only killed women, but they were not sexually assaulted--he just murdered them. So who's to say if he were there and someone came in that he wouldn't just start stabbing. I don't know, but it is such a bizarre killing and there just isn't any reason for Zach to have done such a thing especially with no past violent behavior or problems between them.

I'm aware of Sword & Scale and thanks! Another really good podcast is True Crime Garage. It's probably my favorite (no episodes on Zach's case, but lots of great topics discussed on it). Some of the older ones you have to purchase if you didn't download them before they go off itunes, but they are worth it. I usually wouldn't pay for anything like that, but the garage is a very good one. The older ones are 1.99. The current ones are free, but download them if you want to save them and not have to purchase.

Also love True Crime Garage!


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[megstoriches]

I was just curious what everyone's thoughts were on Adnan potentially receiving a new trial...

 

[cujenn81]

I was just curious what everyone's thoughts were on Adnan potentially receiving a new trial...

I definitely think he deserves the right to a new trial. One that includes testimony from Asia, an expert who can scientifically detail the lividity issues with the state's timeline (although, I'm fairly confident their alleged timeline will change dramatically in a new trial), and an accurate analysis of Adnan's cell phone records.

The fact of the matter is this: Adnan was not given a fair trial. Many important details of this case were not heard by the jury, and the state's entire case largely relied upon the word of a pathological liar. I can't say with 100% certainty that Adnan is innocent, but that's not how our justice system works. I presume Adnan is innocent, and will continue to do so until I've seen enough evidence to raise a reasonable doubt, but I (personally) don't believe such evidence exists.

I think those who are absolutely convinced Adnan killed Hae only feel that way because they can't answer an important question: If Adnan didn't kill Hae, who did?

That's why this case needs to be reconciled with a new trial. I know this must be incredibly difficult for Hae's family to go through all over again, but if Adnan didn't kill her, the person who DID got away with it. A wrongly convicted man serving life behind bars isn't true justice for Hae. And, the state of MD is not going to re-open a case when they already have someone serving time for the crime. I, really and truly, believe a new trial is best for everyone involved.


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[Slebby]

I agree with your entire post, cujenn. And I feel for Hae's family. But I also wonder, why are they not outraged at the possibility that justice was not served, that AS may not, in fact, be the killer? It would be upsetting to go through another trial, but more upsetting to know the investigation was flawed and the killer is possibly still out there.

IMO


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[tayja005]

After listening to Serial for a second time, I am now convinced Adnan is guilty.
The trial, however, was not fair and I don't see how he was convicted from the trial alone.
In one of the episodes (6 or 7) at the 30 minute mark, I believe he has a slip up. If not a slip up then it is very suspicious.
He is talking about not having any scratch marks or defensive wounds after the attack. May just be me, but that's what I picked up after listening to it for the second time.

 

[Swirlz]

If AS told his lawyer he did it, she wouldn't have been able to call Asia because that would've been suborning perjury.

 

[Abbiemal123]

Isn't he supposed to be realised?

 

[watergirl62]

A resolution in the murder case popularized in the "Serial" podcast could be more than a year away, after the state's second-highest court agreed Wednesday to hear an appeal of an order granting*Adnan Syed*a new trial.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-syed-appeals-20170118-story.html


Also found this:
http://patch.com/maryland/owingsmil...w-claims-judge-misinterpreted-legal-standards

 

[csparks]

My wife played these podcasts, but I missed the first one, where the evidence was laid out. I picked more of it up, but am having a hard time finding a clear recounting of the crime and arrest. Google is so dominated by the "Serial" podcast, the appeal, the new trial....
I found the links on page 1 of this thread helpful, but not real in-depth. I'm only thru the first 10 pages. So, if anyone has handy a link that is good without going to any trouble....Sorry, that really comes off as asking others to do my work, but I've been stumped.

I did find the transcript of the Serial podcast, but was also looking for another point of view.

https://undisclosed.wikispaces.com/file/view/All+Serial+Podcast+Transcripts+with+ToC.pdf

As a pay back, I found t his interview with Jay pretty good.

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/29...lds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

Sadly, I believe Jay lied, tweeked, and omitted details so much initially it has hurt his credibility pretty bad. He may have tried to shield his others from scrutiny, and tried to simplify things at the first to just get himself out of the situation.

In her summation, Sarah Koenig, (broadcaster) admitted that she would vote for acquittal. I wish she would have spent a little of that time addressing the issue of Adnan being the only person with (IMO) a clear motive for the murder. The escaped serial killer routine sounds good, but where and when would this person have kidnapped Hae?

If Jay had accurate info as to the murder and burial, I feel his ID of Adnan is accurate as well. I get where Koenig is coming from, that "reasonable doubt", insufficient evidence angle.

 

[watergirl62]

About Undisclosed
The Undisclosed podcast investigates wrongful convictions, and the U.S. criminal justice system, by taking a closer look at the perpetration of a crime, its investigation, the trial, and ultimate verdict... and finding new evidence that never made it to court.

We started the podcast in April 2015 with a detailed examination of the State of Maryland's case against Adnan Syed. We intended to revisit the case from the beginning, looking at all available evidence. Not only what was presented in Serial, but new evidence that we uncovered in our investigation. As attorneys, we pride ourselves on looking dispassionately at facts, analyzing those facts, and applying the appropriate law in our analysis. Our goal is to get to the truth of what happened on January 13, 1999.

http://undisclosed-podcast.com/episodes/season-1/

These are very good!!!!

 

[Aleph]

My wife played these podcasts, but I missed the first one, where the evidence was laid out. I picked more of it up, but am having a hard time finding a clear recounting of the crime and arrest. Google is so dominated by the "Serial" podcast, the appeal, the new trial....
I found the links on page 1 of this thread helpful, but not real in-depth. I'm only thru the first 10 pages. So, if anyone has handy a link that is good without going to any trouble....Sorry, that really comes off as asking others to do my work, but I've been stumped.

I did find the transcript of the Serial podcast, but was also looking for another point of view.

https://undisclosed.wikispaces.com/file/view/All+Serial+Podcast+Transcripts+with+ToC.pdf

As a pay back, I found t his interview with Jay pretty good.

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/29...lds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

Sadly, I believe Jay lied, tweeked, and omitted details so much initially it has hurt his credibility pretty bad. He may have tried to shield his others from scrutiny, and tried to simplify things at the first to just get himself out of the situation.

In her summation, Sarah Koenig, (broadcaster) admitted that she would vote for acquittal. I wish she would have spent a little of that time addressing the issue of Adnan being the only person with (IMO) a clear motive for the murder. The escaped serial killer routine sounds good, but where and when would this person have kidnapped Hae?

If Jay had accurate info as to the murder and burial, I feel his ID of Adnan is accurate as well. I get where Koenig is coming from, that "reasonable doubt", insufficient evidence angle.

Definitely check out the "serialpodcastorigins" subreddit. The people there are extremely familiar with the case. Some of them probably know it better than the lawyers involved. The posters there are unanimous about Adnan's guilt, but when seen from the correct angle, Adnan's guilt is undeniable (IMO).

The Undisclosed podcast is worthless. It's the creation of Adnan's biggest supporter and I find it hard to listen to as well.

 

[csparks]

Definitely check out the "serialpodcastorigins" subreddit. The people there are extremely familiar with the case. Some of them probably know it better than the lawyers involved. The posters there are unanimous about Adnan's guilt, but when seen from the correct angle, Adnan's guilt is undeniable (IMO).

The Undisclosed podcast is worthless. It's the creation of Adnan's biggest supporter and I find it hard to listen to as well.

Thanks, that's the kind of thing I was searching for. A place where people discuss what actually is known to have happened. More facts, less emotion.

 

[Soulmagent]

My wife played these podcasts, but I missed the first one, where the evidence was laid out. I picked more of it up, but am having a hard time finding a clear recounting of the crime and arrest. Google is so dominated by the "Serial" podcast, the appeal, the new trial....
I found the links on page 1 of this thread helpful, but not real in-depth. I'm only thru the first 10 pages. So, if anyone has handy a link that is good without going to any trouble....Sorry, that really comes off as asking others to do my work, but I've been stumped.

I did find the transcript of the Serial podcast, but was also looking for another point of view.

https://undisclosed.wikispaces.com/file/view/All+Serial+Podcast+Transcripts+with+ToC.pdf

As a pay back, I found t his interview with Jay pretty good.

https://theintercept.com/2014/12/29...lds-star-witness-adnan-syed-serial-case-pt-1/

Sadly, I believe Jay lied, tweeked, and omitted details so much initially it has hurt his credibility pretty bad. He may have tried to shield his others from scrutiny, and tried to simplify things at the first to just get himself out of the situation.

In her summation, Sarah Koenig, (broadcaster) admitted that she would vote for acquittal. I wish she would have spent a little of that time addressing the issue of Adnan being the only person with (IMO) a clear motive for the murder. The escaped serial killer routine sounds good, but where and when would this person have kidnapped Hae?

If Jay had accurate info as to the murder and burial, I feel his ID of Adnan is accurate as well. I get where Koenig is coming from, that "reasonable doubt", insufficient evidence angle.

Any rapist in Baltimore could have a clear motive. Also if you look into that serial killers past address you will see how that could have happened ,in addition the *advertiser censored* video store that Jay worked for was also the same one visited by another serial killer a few year before Jay worked there. Weird **** happens.http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/metheny-joe.htm

 

[Aleph]

Any rapist in Baltimore could have a clear motive. Also if you look into that serial killers past address you will see how that could have happened ,in addition the *advertiser censored* video store that Jay worked for was also the same one visited by another serial killer a few year before Jay worked there. Weird **** happens.http://murderpedia.org/male.M/m/metheny-joe.htm

Except Hae Min Lee was not raped or sexually assaulted. So whoever killed her and took the time to bury her (and concealing the body suggests that this was someone she knew) that was not the motive. This wasn't a sex crime. It was up close, personal, anger. Strangulation.


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[watergirl62]

Definitely check out the "serialpodcastorigins" subreddit. The people there are extremely familiar with the case. Some of them probably know it better than the lawyers involved. The posters there are unanimous about Adnan's guilt, but when seen from the correct angle, Adnan's guilt is undeniable (IMO).

The Undisclosed podcast is worthless. It's the creation of Adnan's biggest supporter and I find it hard to listen to as well.

Just to clarify, I am not on the Adnan is innocent bandwagon. I enjoy the legal perspective, who's side they represent is not particularly persuasive to me, spin is spin, and that can be parsed out. I find all the maneuvering fascinating. I thought Sarah K became enamoured by Adnan's charisma, I had to parse that out also.

 

[csparks]

I'm not completely up on all Hae's movements during that afternoon, but it seems that she was going from her school, to pick up her cousin, with limited time to be distracted away from this appointment.

The most likely distraction I can imagine would fall in line with giving a ride to a trusted acquaintance, or something seemingly minor like that. Diverting far enough from her routine that she might cross paths with another, unfamiliar suspect seems unlikely.

 

[Aleph]

Just to clarify, I am not on the Adnan is innocent bandwagon. I enjoy the legal perspective, who's side they represent is not particularly persuasive to me, spin is spin, and that can be parsed out. I find all the maneuvering fascinating. I thought Sarah K became enamoured by Adnan's charisma, I had to parse that out also.

That's what made Serial so interesting to me -- SK definitely got pulled in over her head.


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[Littlegreenlady]

I have to admit most of my knowledge came from Serial to start with, and then what I read afterwards. But two things always stuck with me. The first was that the police didn't really pay much attention to her current boyfriend at the time, only Adnan. I'm sure I read somewhere (apologies as I have no idea where) that his alibi was a bit shaky. The store where he worked said he was in another store on that day, but they either couldn't find the evidence to back it up or there was another reason to doubt this. But no one ever chased it up.
Secondly, that the body, according to the later medical evidence discussed in Serial, was left somewhere (not in the boot of a car) for several hours/days and I don't think Adnan could have had the opportunity to leave a dead body lying around.

 

[CircuitGuy]

I thought Sarah K became enamoured by Adnan's charisma

I also wonder if she wanted an interesting story. I think this is a common problem in journalism. It's easier in dealing with sources if you tell "both sides" of the story, and it makes it more interesting to read, even in cases where there really is only one reasonable side of the story.

 

[Aleph]

I also wonder if she wanted an interesting story. I think this is a common problem in journalism. It's easier in dealing with sources if you tell "both sides" of the story, and it makes it more interesting to read, even in cases where there really is only one reasonable side of the story.

Agreed.

I don't think she should have told this story without the participation of the victim's family. When Hae's family declined to comment, she should have stepped away. By Koenig not doing that, the podcast became a mouthpiece for Hae's convicted killer. I don't speak for them, obviously, and I don't know them, but if that were my relative who had been murdered, I'd feel re victimized by the podcast.


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