Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

[momrids6]

OMGosh, that's terrifying. My next door neighbor is schizophrenic and would go off his medication and I could hear him out in the driveway occasionally screaming at no one. His mother explained it to me later that he hears voices and people talking to him that aren't there. She told me that she ended up having to put him in a group home because several times he came at her with a knife and said the voices told him she was the devil and he had to kill her. He's 32 years old. He's been arrested a few times for taking the bus without paying for it. This is a terrible disease. IMO, MOO

kind of OT: schizophrenics emit a particular odor in sweat. Researchers have identifed the chemical that causes it... now they have to figure out why there is an over load of this acid, and/or how to reduce the level. It seems to be some type of metabolic disorder that causes the disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5818039

 

[CHERIE.T]

liveshere, imo that could be likely. I wonder if there is someone she trust?

I've watched the video over again and her slowness when walking, her pausing as she exits causes me great concern.

Could she had met someone with a mental illness and they shared a delusion about keeping the kids safe? Maybe that person could have them? I think of that because of what happened earlier this year in Germantown with the 2 children killed by the mom and a friend who were performing an exorcism. The mom was receiving mental health care, and I assumed the other woman was ill as well. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...fe3bc4-804a-11e3-95c6-0a7aa80874bc_story.html

Would she have interacted with anyone at her medical appointments?

I so want those children to be alive and well. It is just eating me up. There are just so many places to look and no clue it seems where to start.

 

[steelman]

I'm not sure why the police have kept that building a secret. Pretty sure I know what it is from video. I think it's probably because they are worried they'll face criticism because I think she's inside a local government building (ETA: I don't think they should). And if it's the building I believe it to be, she could be familiar with it. Of course, LE would have looked into that. Anyways, I believe I know what building it is. And I wouldn't be surprised if she'd been to it before.

That's what I thought too when I saw the video, she had been there before. She knew enough about the building to know they didn't have security guards nor late night cleaning staff. Was she simply told that by someone ? Does she know someone who works there ? Did she work there at some point ?

As far as her movements go, it just appears to me that she is trying to be as quiet as a church mouse. She listens and waits before she goes towards the doors. She eases the doors slowly closed so they don't slam shut. She stands in the foyer and scans the parking lot for any movement outside. It appears to me that she is trying to be as stealthy and quiet as she can be. Maybe the paranoia is playing into it as well, but that woman is definitely moving slowly and quietly to avoid making noise and being detected. If I was sneaking around in a building in the middle of the night, I would probably move around in a similar fashion.

The scariest part would be if you DID come face to face with someone unexpectedly.

 

[steelman]

I would think by now if those kids were in the general vicinity, with 6 days passing by and a lot of heat everyday, that peoples' noses would lead them right to the bodies. That is a densely populated area and a whole lot of people are out looking for those kids. What have they found ? Nothing.

I'm getting the impression this woman may be a lot more lucid and coherent than people are giving her credit for. It continues to be stated that Mommy dearest is off of her meds and not thinking clearly. Well.........okay..........but how do we know that ? Peoples opinions? Her son disappeared last Sunday. her daughter disappeared on Monday morning, and she had a doctors appointment noon on Monday. She was able to gain access and spend the night undetected in an office building. She was able to avoid being found by the cops in a 5 day dragnet. She had her own missing poster in her possession.
She knew that cutting her hair might be a step in protecting her identity.

Let's just pretend for a minute that this woman DIDN'T have a history of mental problems. If that were the case, everybody would be viewing her actions as a deliberate attempt to get away with something bad. To me, that is EXACTLY what it appears like. However, you insert the words "mental illness" in there, and all of a sudden everybody tries to start justifying things and making excuses.

Granted, she most likely was not taking her meds for the last week while being pursued, but how long was it before that when she decided to stop ? How do we know she stopped at all ? It appears to me she knows exactly what she is doing, and she had it all planned out in advance.

 

[PJFL]

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/26520744/missing-clarksburg-mother-tells-police-children-are-alive-safe

Twenty-seven-year-old Catherine Hoggle of Clarksburg is set for a bond hearing Monday on charges of child neglect, obstruction and hindering.

Police plan to discuss the case at a news conference Monday.

 

[blefuscu]

I would think by now if those kids were in the general vicinity, with 6 days passing by and a lot of heat everyday, that peoples' noses would lead them right to the bodies. That is a densely populated area and a whole lot of people are out looking for those kids. What have they found ? Nothing.

I'm getting the impression this woman may be a lot more lucid and coherent than people are giving her credit for. It continues to be stated that Mommy dearest is off of her meds and not thinking clearly. Well.........okay..........but how do we know that ? Peoples opinions? Her son disappeared last Sunday. her daughter disappeared on Monday morning, and she had a doctors appointment noon on Monday. She was able to gain access and spend the night undetected in an office building. She was able to avoid being found by the cops in a 5 day dragnet. She had her own missing poster in her possession.
She knew that cutting her hair might be a step in protecting her identity.

Let's just pretend for a minute that this woman DIDN'T have a history of mental problems. If that were the case, everybody would be viewing her actions as a deliberate attempt to get away with something bad. To me, that is EXACTLY what it appears like. However, you insert the words "mental illness" in there, and all of a sudden everybody tries to start justifying things and making excuses.

Granted, she most likely was not taking her meds for the last week while being pursued, but how long was it before that when she decided to stop ? How do we know she stopped at all ? It appears to me she knows exactly what she is doing, and she had it all planned out in advance.

BBM. You can pretend that this woman hasn't got a mental illness if you want but that doesn't change the fact that she is a diagnosed schizophrenic, who has been off her meds for several weeks.

The longer these children are missing the more I feel that there won't be a good outcome here unfortunately.

 

[SCHMAE]

From my own experience of psychosis I know that I remember some things and not others. I get paranoia and feel that people in authority are watching me, tapping my phone, stalking me etc. I can't always remember what it is I have done to end up in hospital when I'm "back to normal". I'm a highly functioning person most of the time. I look after my children, I go to university, I don't think I look "weird" (well not that weird anyway lol). But when I have a psychotic episode I lose touch with reality. I'm lucky I have supportive family and professionals around me. I've never hurt or put my children in danger in the 16.5 years I've been a parent.

I feel sad for all involved in this case, including the mother, but can understand why some won't.

Thank you for sharing My mom is schizophrenic and bi polar and is prone to bouts of psychosis. It should be made clear that not necessarily being ' off meds' causes this. Sometimes being on too many meds can cause this. Her last episode was from taking too many meds, missing a dose and doubling up next time and maybe a few hours later thinking' oh did i miss my meds' and taking even MORE trying desperately to get back to steady thinking. A few days like that and things can be really out of control. She remembered a little small bit of what happened but not the details. She knows she got into bad shape and had to go into hospital. She does NOT remember the things she said or did during that time or what led up to it.

lease: let these babies be found!!!

ETA Also wanted to add that my parents are still married and had it not been for my dad and had we only been under mom's control without supervision , there is really no telling how things may have turned out.

 

[blefuscu]

Thank you for sharing My mom is schizophrenic and bi polar and is prone to bouts of psychosis. It should be made clear that not necessarily being ' off meds' causes this. Sometimes being on too many meds can cause this. Her last episode was from taking too many meds, missing a dose and doubling up next time and maybe a few hours later thinking' oh did i miss my meds' and taking even MORE trying desperately to get back to steady thinking. A few days like that and things can be really out of control. She remembered a little small bit of what happened but not the details. She knows she got into bad shape and had to go into hospital. She does NOT remember the things she said or did during that time or what led up to it.

lease: let these babies be found!!!

ETA Also wanted to add that my parents are still married and had it not been for my dad and had we only been under mom's control without supervision , there is really no telling how things may have turned out.

I was on my meds for both of my last two psychotic episodes. It was just "one of those things".

Mental illness can be so misunderstood. Some people have a negative perception of what mental illness is, or just believe it's either what TV shows portray mentally ill people as, or just a made up, convenient excuse.

 

[SCHMAE]

I'd like to know if she told LE the kids are alive, or the kids are safe. In her state of mind, the kids being safe might not necessarily mean they are alive.

I really hope LE is able to get information out of her. I'm glad she didn't harm herself and take the location of the kids with her.

Praying they are found soon.

I wonder this myself.

 

[SCHMAE]

I was on my meds for both of my last two psychotic episodes. It was just "one of those things".

Mental illness can be so misunderstood. Some people have a negative perception of what mental illness is, or just believe it's either what TV shows portray mentally ill people as, or just a made up, convenient excuse.

Agreed that it's very misunderstood. I think people would be shocked at what % of the population suffer what different mental conditions. And only a very tiny % are ' violent'. My mom is not violent or aggressive at all. But in psychosis she's very dangerous but it's not malice. It's her paranoia. She believes so much that something or someone is after her or us that she would do literally anything to keep us ' safe' and in that state we have to watch her close because she might think safe is in the freezer? Under the water in a pond so no one can see us ? Things like that are what concerns me with this mom in this case. I can see absolutely how a person in that state could ' kill' a child or another but never have once had murder or even them DYING in their mind. At mom's last incident she wanted to ' run ' to California ( we're in tx) where we would be safe. We literally had to stop her from running down the driveway to the highway. Had she gotten to highway and hit by a car then would folks say ' she's mentally ill and took her own life'? It might appear that way to a bystander but she was actually thinking that would save her life, not take it. Her mind was so clouded though, she could not see any danger, only fleeing. It's the actual meaning of a ' blind panic' I believe.

 

[hlegate]

I cant believe Im here again. Before it was a friend. Now this woman lives very, very close to me. I dont know her but can help with any questions regarding the surrounding areas/businesses.

 

[hlegate]

When I was hopping on the metro for work this morning, a young woman was out with hundreds of flyers asking if anyone knew the kids. It was so sad.

 

[Isabelle]

Is it possible with schizophrenia to have multiple personalities with one or more of them convincing the mom that her children are ok? So sad.

 

[Davia18]

I'm glad mom has been found, I feared she had harmed herself now I hope and pray the same outcome for the children.

 

[texasgirl2]

This video from family has me bawling. Sending up prayers.

http://animoto.com/play/NowQcEuHPFDxDLrwN0oTRA

Oh my goodness! Me too!!

If I wasn't emotionally invested....well, I am now. I can't help but feel for the mother, y'all. I understand that some might think there is no excuse but I truly do feel for her. Being a mother is difficult enough as it is (I have a teenager at home...my life is an absolute roller coaster with this kid!) but add a mental illness to it? Forget about it. I already want to just crawl under the covers and forget about the world, some days. I am not in any way trying to diminish the fact that we have two missing little ones (I have little ones at home too). I do think that she had a responsibility to her kids to take her medications to ensure that she could function and care for them. I honestly just feel that we wouldn't have this thread if not for the mother suffering from schizophrenia. IMO.

Thank you bakerlady for sharing the video from Youtube. It's hard to imagine what it must be like to suffer from this illness...this helped me to understand a bit better. It was absolutely heartbreaking to watch.

My heart really breaks for this family. It's a lot for one family to deal with. I hope these little ones are found really soon! I'm scared for the outcome though.

 

[Soulmagent]

That's what I thought too when I saw the video, she had been there before. She knew enough about the building to know they didn't have security guards nor late night cleaning staff. Was she simply told that by someone ? Does she know someone who works there ? Did she work there at some point ?

As far as her movements go, it just appears to me that she is trying to be as quiet as a church mouse. She listens and waits before she goes towards the doors. She eases the doors slowly closed so they don't slam shut. She stands in the foyer and scans the parking lot for any movement outside. It appears to me that she is trying to be as stealthy and quiet as she can be. Maybe the paranoia is playing into it as well, but that woman is definitely moving slowly and quietly to avoid making noise and being detected. If I was sneaking around in a building in the middle of the night, I would probably move around in a similar fashion.

The scariest part would be if you DID come face to face with someone unexpectedly.

I think it might be she is just trying to ease the door shut so it doesnt lock , and not so much the noise She could be double checking it to make sure it didnt latch .

 

[ClaireNC]

IIRC, In one of the videos I watched yesterday, her MIL mentioned that she was the person that had Catherine committed last year. She also made a comment about the kids possibly being with family relatives. If her "husband's" family were the ones to have her committed, that could be contributing to her paranoia. She might be protecting the children from their father's family.

Did anybody else notice those comments? Or am I being delusional? I am not able to go back and check for the video just now, but will check on it later.

 

[Elphaba]

LE now considering case a possible homicide…

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/0...ar-in-court-monday-for-bond-hearing-1071.html

 

[Soulmagent]

Agreed that it's very misunderstood. I think people would be shocked at what % of the population suffer what different mental conditions. And only a very tiny % are ' violent'. My mom is not violent or aggressive at all. But in psychosis she's very dangerous but it's not malice. It's her paranoia. She believes so much that something or someone is after her or us that she would do literally anything to keep us ' safe' and in that state we have to watch her close because she might think safe is in the freezer? Under the water in a pond so no one can see us ? Things like that are what concerns me with this mom in this case. I can see absolutely how a person in that state could ' kill' a child or another but never have once had murder or even them DYING in their mind. At mom's last incident she wanted to ' run ' to California ( we're in tx) where we would be safe. We literally had to stop her from running down the driveway to the highway. Had she gotten to highway and hit by a car then would folks say ' she's mentally ill and took her own life'? It might appear that way to a bystander but she was actually thinking that would save her life, not take it. Her mind was so clouded though, she could not see any danger, only fleeing. It's the actual meaning of a ' blind panic' I believe.

Wow, I can so relate to what you typed.

My dd best friends mother ,was this way and upon fleeing some unknown danger in her mind she often placed herself in actual danger, Once she hitched to flordia ,would walk highways at night make the weirdest people her friends , She died in an accident at 3 am as she was riding a bike without reflectors in the travel lane of a highway. With her was a huge trashbag filled with all her belongings as she thought she was not safe to stay in her home she lived for 35 years with her parents. She was a very kind and loving person often times you would never know anything was going on with her but there was always.

 

[popsicle]

Mike Murillo @MikeMurilloWTOP · 1h

Awaiting 11 AM press conference from @mcpnews on search for two missing children. @WTOP #missingkids


Kid's mom Catherine Hoggle was found in Germantown on Friday. She was last seen with kids a week ago.#missingkids@WTOP

She hasn't told police where they area and claims they are safe. Hoggle suffers from Paranoid Schizophrenia. #missingkids@WTOP

A bond hearing for Hoggle will take place at MoCo Dist. Court at 1p. States atty is expected to speak on case as well. #missingkids@WTOP

Captain Darren Francke of @mcpnews says they remain optimistic that kids will be found alive. #missingkids@WTOP

Hoggle attempted to flee from police when they were moving her. #missingkids@WTOP

Hoggle told police this was planned and that the kids are together. @WTOP#missingkids

Police say they are now building homicide case against Hoggle. @WTOP#missingkids

PD asking you to check personal property for Jacob and Sarah. Darnestown and Clarksburg residents are asked to check. @WTOP#missingkids

If a person finds the kids dead, police say do not touch anything and call police. @WTOP#missingkids

Police say look for foul odors, sheds with broken locks, brush moved aside. @WTOP#missingkids

48 hrs after she hasn't said where kids are, won't tell kid's father either. PD looking for parental abduction charges. @WTOP#missingkids

Hoggle told police she has been taking her medications and planned taking the kids. @WTOP#missingkids

Captain Darren Francke says Hoggle was lucid when she was found. @WTOP#missingkids

Search crews with K9's will focus search today, police won't say where. @WTOP#missingkids