Deceased/Not Found MD - Sarah, 3, & Jacob Hoggle, 2, Clarksburg, 9 Sept 2014 *Arrest*

[blefuscu]

I have been following this story but haven't posted in this thread.

I have a question about the mom getting medication now that she has been found. If she was in a state of psychosis and did something to the children....would she be able to remember that when she did receive medication? Or, would she not be able to remember what happened even then?

I'm really worried about this. I just watched the video of Catherine in the office building and I got goosebumps. I'm scared for those babies.

From my own experience of psychosis I know that I remember some things and not others. I get paranoia and feel that people in authority are watching me, tapping my phone, stalking me etc. I can't always remember what it is I have done to end up in hospital when I'm "back to normal". I'm a highly functioning person most of the time. I look after my children, I go to university, I don't think I look "weird" (well not that weird anyway lol). But when I have a psychotic episode I lose touch with reality. I'm lucky I have supportive family and professionals around me. I've never hurt or put my children in danger in the 16.5 years I've been a parent.

I feel sad for all involved in this case, including the mother, but can understand why some won't.

 

[JRW]

Have the police tried letting her husband question her about the whereabouts of the children? Or is this something the police would not do? Maybe she would tell him where to go get them if she didnt trust the police?

 

[SilkySifaka]

From my own experience of psychosis I know that I remember some things and not others. I get paranoia and feel that people in authority are watching me, tapping my phone, stalking me etc. I can't always remember what it is I have done to end up in hospital when I'm "back to normal". I'm a highly functioning person most of the time. I look after my children, I go to university, I don't think I look "weird" (well not that weird anyway lol). But when I have a psychotic episode I lose touch with reality. I'm lucky I have supportive family and professionals around me. I've never hurt or put my children in danger in the 16.5 years I've been a parent.

I feel sad for all involved in this case, including the mother, but can understand why some won't.

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with it. So happy you have such great support. I feel sorry for the mom too. Whatever she did (and I am not hopeful for a positive outcome) she did due to the disease. Thank goodness not all schizophrenics get hallucinations bad enough to cause what i suspect happened.

 

[PJFL]

Have the police tried letting her husband question her about the whereabouts of the children? Or is this something the police would not do? Maybe she would tell him where to go get them if she didnt trust the police?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/montgomery-county-mother-is-found-2-toddlers-are-still-missing/2014/09/13/7ea46f94-3afe-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

"At one point, detectives let the children’s father, Troy Turner, speak to Hoggle, hoping that would produce answers. He begged her to tell him where the children were.

“She really didn’t have much to say to me,” Turner recalled afterward.

Hoggle told him that the children were safe but wouldn’t say more, Turner said.

He said he thinks that Hoggle knows where their children are but won’t say. “I can’t even describe what it feels like,” Turner said Saturday afternoon."

 

[Seajay]

I think for right now, they ought to leave her alone, make sure she takes her medication to get stabilized mentally again, then send in her parents to ask those questions. She might view Turner as the enemy, ya know? Maybe she would view her parents as being on her side. They can appeal to her maternal instincts as in, they need food, a change of clothing, they must be missing their grandparents, the person taking care of them maybe need money or help with them. Something to maybe get her to talk. IMO.

 

[texasgirl2]

From my own experience of psychosis I know that I remember some things and not others. I get paranoia and feel that people in authority are watching me, tapping my phone, stalking me etc. I can't always remember what it is I have done to end up in hospital when I'm "back to normal". I'm a highly functioning person most of the time. I look after my children, I go to university, I don't think I look "weird" (well not that weird anyway lol). But when I have a psychotic episode I lose touch with reality. I'm lucky I have supportive family and professionals around me. I've never hurt or put my children in danger in the 16.5 years I've been a parent.

I feel sad for all involved in this case, including the mother, but can understand why some won't.

I really appreciate you sharing this with us, blefuscu. It's hard to imagine having to go through those experiences and having no control. I am so happy that you have a supportive group to help you through those times. Thank you for answering my question so honestly. I guess this means that she may or may not remember what happened. That's a hard pill to swallow when you are talking about young children being missing.

I also feel for Catherine. Many of us are lucky to not have these type of illnesses and I don't think we could ever understand what it's like unless we've been there.

Man...this is a tough one.

 

[SilkySifaka]

I really appreciate you sharing this with us, blefuscu. It's hard to imagine having to go through those experiences and having no control. I am so happy that you have a supportive group to help you through those times. Thank you for answering my question so honestly. I guess this means that she may or may not remember what happened. That's a hard pill to swallow when you are talking about young children being missing.

I also feel for Catherine. Many of us are lucky to not have these type of illnesses and I don't think we could ever understand what it's like unless we've been there.

Man...this is a tough one.

It really is tough. Sigh, its so much easier when we can simply get angry. I don't think they are alive, would love to be wrong

 

[bakerlady]

View attachment 58904

http://www.mymcpnews.com/2014/09/13...ntral-processing-unit-children-still-missing/

This photo is haunting. Her eyes seem so lost and empty. Has it been confirmed that she was off her meds on the day in question? I doubt she has taken them in the last few days that she is on the run.

Here is a video that simulates what life is like for someone who suffers from schizophrenia.

[video=youtube;UMzD-sn94Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMzD-sn94Ak[/video]

 

[Seajay]

This photo is haunting. Her eyes seem so lost and empty. Has it been confirmed that she was off her meds on the day in question? I doubt she has taken them in the last few days that she is on the run.

Here is a video that simulates what life is like for someone who suffers from schizophrenia.

[video=youtube;UMzD-sn94Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMzD-sn94Ak[/video]

OMGosh, that's terrifying. My next door neighbor is schizophrenic and would go off his medication and I could hear him out in the driveway occasionally screaming at no one. His mother explained it to me later that he hears voices and people talking to him that aren't there. She told me that she ended up having to put him in a group home because several times he came at her with a knife and said the voices told him she was the devil and he had to kill her. He's 32 years old. He's been arrested a few times for taking the bus without paying for it. This is a terrible disease. IMO, MOO

 

[bellesnwhistles]

Thanks, Bearkoda! Wasn't there a security officer on site? She wandered in and out for 8 minutes and no security guard approached her?

Apparently there are no security guards on duty after hours but you are supposed to need a key card to get in and out when they aren't on duty.

 

[tarabull]

bakerlady asked if it's been confirmed Catherine was off her meds...

...Until Sept. 7, Turner, Hoggle and their three children were living in an apartment in Clarksburg. He helped take her to medical appointments and would remind her to take her medication. When healthy, Hoggle was well known among friends and family members as being an attentive, caring mother.

Turner said that after seeing Hoggle in custody, it seemed clear that she had recently stopped taking medication. He said he hopes that she will resume her medication and that it will help her to reveal what she knows about the children’s location.

“I hope that alters her reality back to normal,” Turner said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...a46f94-3afe-11e4-8601-97ba88884ffd_story.html

 

[LasVegasWorldNews]

I'm hoping this doesn't come off as offensive. It's truly an honest question from someone with little knowledge of those suffering from paranoid schizophrenia but WHY was she in charge of her children? Even the most mentally sound mother has moments of intense frustration when it comes to caring to toddlers, wouldn't it been too much or unsafe for a diagnosed woman off her medication?

Again, not placing any blame on the family or husband as I know it must be a difficult situation. I'm just curious.

I agree with you fully and don't find it offensive. It appears Cat does not have a mild case of psychosis/issues. She went for treatment every day for 3 hours which is substantial. I have limited experience too . A family friend has the same diagnosis and although the person is very nice I would not leave him alone with my dogs let alone my kids. Just because I could not be confident that he would not hurt them. He has the paranoid type and can change in an instant. Of course anyone can do something terrible but if you know someone has the paranoid kind it is risk. He even has a girlfriend who has kids. They don't live together and she would never leave him alone with her children.

It appears she is suffering from delusions and although she has hinted the kids are safe, her "safe" and a normal safe might be two very different things. One common denominator with people with ps is that they feel they are getting better and stop their meds.

I know with this friend his entire family is very involved in his everyday life. There have been times he has gone to the corner store unattended and returned many hours later and they were in a panic and then grilled him and checked out his story when he returned and then tried to put in place more support for him.

We don't know if Cat would disappear with her children in the past - like getting pizza - so they were used to it and did not see it as a red flag. Although she seemed to be very convincing it would be those closest to her that might be the ones to notice something out of the ordinary. With her getting daily treatment she certainly has much more than mild mental issues.

Praying the kids are found safe.

 

[LasVegasWorldNews]

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...-274443341.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand

This is the part that stands out most to me. Why stop somewhere to eat? And then poof she is gone? SO confusing!

I know. But sometimes when you are dealing with a person with mental issues you tread very carefully and maybe he was trying to have her relax so he could find out. Then she supposedly went back in and pulled the disappearing act.

 

[LasVegasWorldNews]

And if someone is off their meds it can take some time before they go off.

 

[tarabull]

Update: Search for Hoggle Children Continues

September 14, 2014
The Montgomery County Police Department continues to search for and seek information regarding the whereabouts of Jacob and Sarah Hoggle. The following additional information is being released at this time:

• The children have not been located.
  
• Catherine Hoggle remains in the custody of the Montgomery County Department of Correction and Rehabilitation. She will have bond review tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. in Rockville District Court.
  
• Today, eight areas in Darnestown were searched. No evidence was recovered.
  
• Searches will continue tomorrow and will be conducted by Montgomery County Police search teams and K-9s.
  
• There is a press conference planned for 11:00 a.m. tomorrow (Monday, September 15). Captain Darren Francke, Director of the Major Crimes Division, will talk about the status of the investigation, the interview of Catherine Hoggle that occurred after she was apprehended, and the search process.
  
• The Department will continue to update the public and media on this case via press releases and social media. We understand and value the community’s continuing concern for the welfare of the children.

Anyone with information on the whereabouts of the children is asked to call 9-1-1.

Montgomery County Police Emergency Line – 911

Montgomery County Police Non-Emergency Line – 301-279-8000

http://www.mymcpnews.com/2014/09/14/update-search-for-hoggle-children-continues/

 

[CHERIE.T]

So no one has any idea where she may have taken the children?
What about a bff?
Or a new friend, relative?

 

[liveshere]

After watching the 8 minute video, my heart really breaks for this woman. I am certainly praying that her children are found safe and that she can get the help that she needs.

Does anybody have any idea of what type of building the video was taken at? Seems like an office building, but as somebody else mentioned, why would an office building be open at 4:00 a.m? Does she have some kind of connection to the building? Have they thoroughly searched it for the children?

I'm not sure why the police have kept that building a secret. Pretty sure I know what it is from video. I think it's probably because they are worried they'll face criticism because I think she's inside a local government building (ETA: I don't think they should). And if it's the building I believe it to be, she could be familiar with it. Of course, LE would have looked into that. Anyways, I believe I know what building it is. And I wouldn't be surprised if she'd been to it before.

 

[liveshere]

So no one has any idea where she may have taken the children?
What about a bff?
Or a new friend, relative?

Could she had met someone with a mental illness and they shared a delusion about keeping the kids safe? Maybe that person could have them? I think of that because of what happened earlier this year in Germantown with the 2 children killed by the mom and a friend who were performing an exorcism. The mom was receiving mental health care, and I assumed the other woman was ill as well. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...fe3bc4-804a-11e3-95c6-0a7aa80874bc_story.html

Would she have interacted with anyone at her medical appointments?

I so want those children to be alive and well. It is just eating me up. There are just so many places to look and no clue it seems where to start.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

This photo is haunting. Her eyes seem so lost and empty. Has it been confirmed that she was off her meds on the day in question? I doubt she has taken them in the last few days that she is on the run.

Here is a video that simulates what life is like for someone who suffers from schizophrenia.

[video=youtube;UMzD-sn94Ak]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMzD-sn94Ak[/video]

That's heartbreaking! I couldn't even finish watching because I was terrified! I can't imagine living it!

I haven't seen it stared, but are they making her take her meds now that she's in custody?

 

[liveshere]

This video from family has me bawling. Sending up prayers.

http://animoto.com/play/NowQcEuHPFDxDLrwN0oTRA