Identified! MD - Woodlawn, WhtFem 279UFMD, 15-25, near cemetery, 'JP' Tattoo, Sep'76 - Margaret Fetterolf
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MadeaBecBec
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I emailed both detectives the info on Jane and Ms. Glueckert, I will let you all know as soon as I hear (read) anything!
About the tattoo, it was only one, and the ME couldn't really make out the exact letters, that's why there are so many listed, those are all possibles. When I read that, I thought that maybe the abductor/perp did that to her... Since it was so crudely done. I do wish that there was a photo of the tat, to look at, but haven't found one. Hopefully, the ME does and puts that up, soon. I thought maybe the perp did it to throw off LE about who she was or who might've killed her.
It's about 750 miles from Huntley to Baltimore, about an 8 to 10 hour drive. If the abductor took her there the same night she went missing, he could've held her there, for awhile, then went back later, killed her and dumped her when the LE started asking questions and found out who "Tom Edwards" actually was. IDK!! Just some of the scenarios I have wondered about. I realize they have checked for fingerprints against those in the system and no match, but Ms. Glueckert doesn't even have an NCIC number listed, so I doubt they have her fingerprints. I do hope there is DNA and dentals for Ms. Glueckert. I hope the dentals are a part of her files, because if not, it will have to be DNA, and we all know how long that can take.....
Jeremiah 29:11-14
About the tattoo, it was only one, and the ME couldn't really make out the exact letters, that's why there are so many listed, those are all possibles. When I read that, I thought that maybe the abductor/perp did that to her... Since it was so crudely done. I do wish that there was a photo of the tat, to look at, but haven't found one. Hopefully, the ME does and puts that up, soon. I thought maybe the perp did it to throw off LE about who she was or who might've killed her.
It's about 750 miles from Huntley to Baltimore, about an 8 to 10 hour drive. If the abductor took her there the same night she went missing, he could've held her there, for awhile, then went back later, killed her and dumped her when the LE started asking questions and found out who "Tom Edwards" actually was. IDK!! Just some of the scenarios I have wondered about. I realize they have checked for fingerprints against those in the system and no match, but Ms. Glueckert doesn't even have an NCIC number listed, so I doubt they have her fingerprints. I do hope there is DNA and dentals for Ms. Glueckert. I hope the dentals are a part of her files, because if not, it will have to be DNA, and we all know how long that can take.....
Jeremiah 29:11-14
Cubby
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Thank you madeabecbec ( love you ws hat by the way, cute ). I think it's a long shot that they would be a match, but it would be good to know about ruling out, especialy due to the time. The UID is listed as much taller and heavier than Barbara, but we've seen mistakes before.
May I ask if you, or anyone has searched through the hot case files at doenetwork for any possible matches? I have computer problems and am unable to view any hot cases. It occured to me that if the suspect immediately left for CA perhaps he buried Barbara somewhere along the route.
I'd like to see a seperate thread set up for Barbara in the event this is not a match. There is a TON of info out there to read about Barbara's case. A ton of searches which happened in Huntley, and many newspaper articles over the years and as recently as 2006. Much can be learnt without having access to the paid subscription sites as well.
I'd also like to find out more about what LE knows about how soon the suspect moved to CA. Info states he resided in Elgin for a time being and was a tenant of the father of another missing girl! I would also like to know more about- if I read correctly- the 36 page letter the suspect wrote in December of 1976 telling a friend he buried a girl in the ground because he raped her and was afraid she would tell the police and later said it was untrue because he was on drugs. 36 pages is one long letter! Was there anything in that letter which might be clues on where he buried Barbara?
I'd like to find out which area's were searched. Where the location of the barn was, does the barn still exist or has that area been redeveloped?
What area's did the suspect frequent? It occured to me northeast IL has a bog, the Volo bog. I have never been there, and only leared of it a few years ago. Also, there are many marshy muddy- one can sink in the mud area's out in those far northwest burbs. One in Pinegree grove in particular between the single railroad tracks and the Prairie State select sires on rt 20. (I know because we got an atv stuck in it and took days to get the thing out and not before getting another vehicle stuck trying
)
Madeabecbec, can you ask the detective in Mt Prospect you tt any of these questions? or I can if this is not a match and anyone is interested in opening a thread either in the missing but not forgotten or the cold case forum here. (Preferably the cold case forum. )
thanks madeabecbec!
Cubby
May I ask if you, or anyone has searched through the hot case files at doenetwork for any possible matches? I have computer problems and am unable to view any hot cases. It occured to me that if the suspect immediately left for CA perhaps he buried Barbara somewhere along the route.
I'd like to see a seperate thread set up for Barbara in the event this is not a match. There is a TON of info out there to read about Barbara's case. A ton of searches which happened in Huntley, and many newspaper articles over the years and as recently as 2006. Much can be learnt without having access to the paid subscription sites as well.
I'd also like to find out more about what LE knows about how soon the suspect moved to CA. Info states he resided in Elgin for a time being and was a tenant of the father of another missing girl! I would also like to know more about- if I read correctly- the 36 page letter the suspect wrote in December of 1976 telling a friend he buried a girl in the ground because he raped her and was afraid she would tell the police and later said it was untrue because he was on drugs. 36 pages is one long letter! Was there anything in that letter which might be clues on where he buried Barbara?
I'd like to find out which area's were searched. Where the location of the barn was, does the barn still exist or has that area been redeveloped?
What area's did the suspect frequent? It occured to me northeast IL has a bog, the Volo bog. I have never been there, and only leared of it a few years ago. Also, there are many marshy muddy- one can sink in the mud area's out in those far northwest burbs. One in Pinegree grove in particular between the single railroad tracks and the Prairie State select sires on rt 20. (I know because we got an atv stuck in it and took days to get the thing out and not before getting another vehicle stuck trying
) Madeabecbec, can you ask the detective in Mt Prospect you tt any of these questions? or I can if this is not a match and anyone is interested in opening a thread either in the missing but not forgotten or the cold case forum here. (Preferably the cold case forum. )
thanks madeabecbec!
Cubby
MadeaBecBec
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Cubby; I sure will ask the detective those questions, good info to have, Thanks for thinking of them!
I have wondered what Urlachers letter said, too! If it was written from prsion, it is a very long letter to write in one day, I'll ask about the dates on the letter, because if he wrote it while incarcerated how could he have been that influenced by "drugs", maybe some drugs got through the prison walls, but I wouldn't think there would be enough for him to get wigged out and fire off a crazy letter implicating himself in a murder, but some people are stupidly evil, so you just never know!
Thanks Everybody for responding so quickly!
Jeremiah 29: 11-14
I have wondered what Urlachers letter said, too! If it was written from prsion, it is a very long letter to write in one day, I'll ask about the dates on the letter, because if he wrote it while incarcerated how could he have been that influenced by "drugs", maybe some drugs got through the prison walls, but I wouldn't think there would be enough for him to get wigged out and fire off a crazy letter implicating himself in a murder, but some people are stupidly evil, so you just never know!
Thanks Everybody for responding so quickly!
Jeremiah 29: 11-14
MadeaBecBec
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Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
I think the girl looks more like the 1st sketch then the other 2.
I also think that it's possible she had the tat and no one knew.
It was right by the shoulder, her clothes probably covered it.
Sorry off topic, in internet explorer, clear your cache/temporary files. Do not clear your cookies/passwords. If you are using firefox do the same then restart.
Tonight when you go to sleep, click on "my computer" the right click the C drive, select properties then the tools tab. You will see the option to run a disk check and defragment. I'd like to see you try both. I usually defrag 1st, then run the disk check, click the 2 boxes to fix errors. It will say you need to restart to do this, select ok then restart. Once that's done run another defrag you should be running better.
I also suggest Panda scan just to make sure you didn't pick something up. It's free.
marylandmissing
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I'm very familiar with Jane Doe's case...Based on my knowledge of this case, I don't believe this is a match, but stranger things have happened...
- three weeks time between when she went missing and the unidentified was found
- he was described as moving to California days after she disappeared. Which leads me to believe he knew police were looking for him regarding her disappearance. It would have been too much of a risk to keep her for three weeks, then drive all the way across the country and kill her and dump her.
- Killer is thought to have killed her promptly after she disappeared. As well as another victim shortly after she disappeared. Would be outside the MO. Most killers do not venture 8 states over to dump a body.
- She was dumped in a Lorraine Park cemetary in Woodlawn. Due to where she was found, I find it highly unlikely someone unfamiliar with the area would have disposed of her there. It is a residential area, and anyone parking there for long would have been noticed. Cannot see someone, unless they spent consider time in this area before, choosing there to dump her.
- She was strangled to death, which does not appear to be this killers technique.
- Jane Doe has a very pronounced widow peak in a pm picture. Barbara does not.
- Barbara's hair is wavy. I have been told Jane Doe's hair appeared very textured. The type of hair that would be best kept in a pony tail or gelled down.
- Height is off by 4"
- three weeks time between when she went missing and the unidentified was found
- he was described as moving to California days after she disappeared. Which leads me to believe he knew police were looking for him regarding her disappearance. It would have been too much of a risk to keep her for three weeks, then drive all the way across the country and kill her and dump her.
- Killer is thought to have killed her promptly after she disappeared. As well as another victim shortly after she disappeared. Would be outside the MO. Most killers do not venture 8 states over to dump a body.
- She was dumped in a Lorraine Park cemetary in Woodlawn. Due to where she was found, I find it highly unlikely someone unfamiliar with the area would have disposed of her there. It is a residential area, and anyone parking there for long would have been noticed. Cannot see someone, unless they spent consider time in this area before, choosing there to dump her.
- She was strangled to death, which does not appear to be this killers technique.
- Jane Doe has a very pronounced widow peak in a pm picture. Barbara does not.
- Barbara's hair is wavy. I have been told Jane Doe's hair appeared very textured. The type of hair that would be best kept in a pony tail or gelled down.
- Height is off by 4"
MadeaBecBec
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Cubby; Here's the Charley Project link; http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/glueckert_barbara.html
The newspapers reported for weeks that LE was searching for Urlacher, that he was a POI, Urlachers friends loaned him money ($1,000 according to article) and he told them he was going to Arizona for a little while, apparently he ended up in California, so he had the time to take her to Maryland, he was driving from all accounts. Urlacher was into drugs for some time before meeting up with Barbara, he could've drugged her and kept her somewhere in between, don't ya think? They didn't find Urlacher until December, according to the Herald Newspaper.... If someone is going to kidnap and murder a young girl and tell their friends they're going to Arizona, why not go the opposite way to dump the body? Do I have Criminal Mind or what? I think it's watching too many CSI's, Criminal Minds, Forensic Files and such!
You know Urlacher was killed in a drug deal in Colorado in 2004? So the guy was in a lot of different states. He even has ancestors in British Columbia,CA!
Another strange thing, when I first read his name, I immediately thought of Brain Urlacher (Chicago Bears 54) and thought, they have to be related, that's not a common name, but then researching Ancestors, I found there are lots of Urlachers, from all over US,Canada and UK...
I surmise that not every crime makes sense, unless you are the criminal.....
Back to the sleuthing and waiting......
The newspapers reported for weeks that LE was searching for Urlacher, that he was a POI, Urlachers friends loaned him money ($1,000 according to article) and he told them he was going to Arizona for a little while, apparently he ended up in California, so he had the time to take her to Maryland, he was driving from all accounts. Urlacher was into drugs for some time before meeting up with Barbara, he could've drugged her and kept her somewhere in between, don't ya think? They didn't find Urlacher until December, according to the Herald Newspaper.... If someone is going to kidnap and murder a young girl and tell their friends they're going to Arizona, why not go the opposite way to dump the body? Do I have Criminal Mind or what? I think it's watching too many CSI's, Criminal Minds, Forensic Files and such!
You know Urlacher was killed in a drug deal in Colorado in 2004? So the guy was in a lot of different states. He even has ancestors in British Columbia,CA!
Another strange thing, when I first read his name, I immediately thought of Brain Urlacher (Chicago Bears 54) and thought, they have to be related, that's not a common name, but then researching Ancestors, I found there are lots of Urlachers, from all over US,Canada and UK...
I surmise that not every crime makes sense, unless you are the criminal.....
Back to the sleuthing and waiting......
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
Cubby, here's an article I found that mentioned names click
Karen Schepers 23 Missing since April 16, 1983 from Carpentersville, IL
~~snip~~
Already he's made one loosely connected discovery. Thomas Urlacher, suspected in the 1976 disappearance of 14-year-old Barbara Glueckert from Huntley, was a previous tenant of Schepers' Elgin apartment at 311 Lovell St. Urlacher was shot to death in April 2004 in Colorado, and Glueckert never has been found.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then there is this about Karen on missing pieces
==============================
I just found this
Unidentified Body - Possibly Female
* The victim was discovered on January 1, 1986 in San Bernardino County, California
* Estimated Date of Death: at least 10 years - probably much longer.
* The remains had been buried in the desert at least five years
* State of Remains: Partial Skeleton
Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 14-18 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 4' 10" - 5' 2".
Karen Schepers 23 Missing since April 16, 1983 from Carpentersville, IL
~~snip~~
Already he's made one loosely connected discovery. Thomas Urlacher, suspected in the 1976 disappearance of 14-year-old Barbara Glueckert from Huntley, was a previous tenant of Schepers' Elgin apartment at 311 Lovell St. Urlacher was shot to death in April 2004 in Colorado, and Glueckert never has been found.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then there is this about Karen on missing pieces
==============================
I just found this
Unidentified Body - Possibly Female
* The victim was discovered on January 1, 1986 in San Bernardino County, California
* Estimated Date of Death: at least 10 years - probably much longer.
* The remains had been buried in the desert at least five years
* State of Remains: Partial Skeleton
Vital Statistics
* Estimated age: 14-18 years old
* Approximate Height and Weight: 4' 10" - 5' 2".
Cubby
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Thank you Roselvr that HC1584 could be Barbara. should be an easy rule in/out based on dentals.
though all, we need to start a seperate thread for Barbara in the cold case section here as this thread is for the MD UID. I will get one started shortly and we'll need to get Barbara's info posted there.
TY
Cubby
ETA: I opened a thread for Barbara in the cold case forum.
though all, we need to start a seperate thread for Barbara in the cold case section here as this thread is for the MD UID. I will get one started shortly and we'll need to get Barbara's info posted there.
TY
Cubby
ETA: I opened a thread for Barbara in the cold case forum.
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
MadeaBecBec
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I received an email from Detective Nelson today, here is what he wrote;
First of all let me thank you for your work and attention concerning Barbara's case. I say that as a member of the Mt. Prospect Police Department, as one of the many investigators who have worked this case, and as one of Barbara's childhood friends. Unfortunately for all of us, there are several factors pertaining to your Jane Doe which add up to a negative match. One could look at the physical descriptions and say they are close enough, however the scar and tattoo would be a stretch (if one wanted to argue they were added after her disappearance). Even allowing for those things, the blood type and dental records are absolutely no match (the dental records miss by a factor of 6).
Again thank you for you interest. If you could do me a favor, at anytime in the future you gather any information concerning Barbara, please e-mail me directly or phone 847-870-5656, and I will get back to you in kind
I am somewhat disappointed, but then, a bit glad that it's not her, strange!!
I will post this on Barbara's thread as well......
Back to searching for a match on this Jane....... I have others to put here, Barbara just seemed the closest IMO! After I post on the other thread, I'll come back and put the side by side pics up and the info on them....
First of all let me thank you for your work and attention concerning Barbara's case. I say that as a member of the Mt. Prospect Police Department, as one of the many investigators who have worked this case, and as one of Barbara's childhood friends. Unfortunately for all of us, there are several factors pertaining to your Jane Doe which add up to a negative match. One could look at the physical descriptions and say they are close enough, however the scar and tattoo would be a stretch (if one wanted to argue they were added after her disappearance). Even allowing for those things, the blood type and dental records are absolutely no match (the dental records miss by a factor of 6).
Again thank you for you interest. If you could do me a favor, at anytime in the future you gather any information concerning Barbara, please e-mail me directly or phone 847-870-5656, and I will get back to you in kind
I am somewhat disappointed, but then, a bit glad that it's not her, strange!!
I will post this on Barbara's thread as well......
Back to searching for a match on this Jane....... I have others to put here, Barbara just seemed the closest IMO! After I post on the other thread, I'll come back and put the side by side pics up and the info on them....
Updated information. This case is now 33 years old and still unsolved.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Unidentified White Female
Discovered on September 12, 1976 in the Baltimore, Baltimore County, Maryland.
She was a victim of homicide/strangulation
Estimated Date of Death: 24 hours prior
Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 15-25 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6"-5'8"; 159 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Shoulder length, brown hair; brown eyes. Pierced ears.
Marks, Scars: She had a 1 ½ inch scar on her left thigh.
Tattoos: She had what appeared to be the letters of either "JP", "JS","JD", "JB", or SP", "SS", "SD", "SB", crudely tattooed on her right arm, just below the shoulder.
Clothing: White/beige pullover, short sleeve top; Levis beige and yellow jeans; a white bra; leather, brown shoes, with soft rubber composition sole, with laces; and striped with brown/gray/beige knee socks.
Jewelry: A rawhide, string necklace, with a small, round, blue object affixed.
Personal Effects: 2 keys on a safety pin.
Blood Type: O positive.
Fingerprints: Available. 12 0 5 U OIO 18, I 17 U IIO 19
Dentals: Available. Teeth are in good condition with the following notations: 3rd molars all extracted, left mandibular 2nd molar extracted, fillings in left upper 1st and 2nd molars, right 1st and 2nd molars and left lower 1st molar. Tooth #20 rotated 90 degrees.
Case History
The victim was found by a passing motorist at 10:20 a.m. on September 12, 1976, off the roadway in the 5600 block of Dogwood Road, in the Woodlawn section of Baltimore. This is just a short distance from Lorraine Park Cemetery.
It is believed she had been killed sometime within the previous 24 hours at another location, and her body was dumped where it was found.
Detectives launched an extensive investigation at the time to find the killer. The young woman's fingerprints have been checked against the records of every state in the union, with no matches. No matches have been found for her dental records. Investigators have followed up on similar cases in other states as far away as Illinois and California. But they have found nothing.
Photo of Necklace can be seen at below doenet link.
Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
Baltimore County Police Department
Homicide Unit/Unsolved Case Unit
Detective Philip Marll
410-887-3943
You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
Case Number: B-678741 1054031/76-40U/76-1579A/B
NCMEC #: USMD02b678741
Please refer to these numbers when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information:
NCMEC
Florida Missing Children Information Clearinghouse
UDRS
Doenetwork case 279UFMD
LINKS:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/279ufmd.html
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Ag...unsolved_homicides/doe_1976_homicide.mdr.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Unidentified White Female
Discovered on September 12, 1976 in the Baltimore, Baltimore County, Maryland.
She was a victim of homicide/strangulation
Estimated Date of Death: 24 hours prior
Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 15-25 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6"-5'8"; 159 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Shoulder length, brown hair; brown eyes. Pierced ears.
Marks, Scars: She had a 1 ½ inch scar on her left thigh.
Tattoos: She had what appeared to be the letters of either "JP", "JS","JD", "JB", or SP", "SS", "SD", "SB", crudely tattooed on her right arm, just below the shoulder.
Clothing: White/beige pullover, short sleeve top; Levis beige and yellow jeans; a white bra; leather, brown shoes, with soft rubber composition sole, with laces; and striped with brown/gray/beige knee socks.
Jewelry: A rawhide, string necklace, with a small, round, blue object affixed.
Personal Effects: 2 keys on a safety pin.
Blood Type: O positive.
Fingerprints: Available. 12 0 5 U OIO 18, I 17 U IIO 19
Dentals: Available. Teeth are in good condition with the following notations: 3rd molars all extracted, left mandibular 2nd molar extracted, fillings in left upper 1st and 2nd molars, right 1st and 2nd molars and left lower 1st molar. Tooth #20 rotated 90 degrees.
Case History
The victim was found by a passing motorist at 10:20 a.m. on September 12, 1976, off the roadway in the 5600 block of Dogwood Road, in the Woodlawn section of Baltimore. This is just a short distance from Lorraine Park Cemetery.
It is believed she had been killed sometime within the previous 24 hours at another location, and her body was dumped where it was found.
Detectives launched an extensive investigation at the time to find the killer. The young woman's fingerprints have been checked against the records of every state in the union, with no matches. No matches have been found for her dental records. Investigators have followed up on similar cases in other states as far away as Illinois and California. But they have found nothing.
Photo of Necklace can be seen at below doenet link.
Investigators
If you have any information about this case please contact:
Baltimore County Police Department
Homicide Unit/Unsolved Case Unit
Detective Philip Marll
410-887-3943
You may remain anonymous when submitting information.
Case Number: B-678741 1054031/76-40U/76-1579A/B
NCMEC #: USMD02b678741
Please refer to these numbers when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.
Source Information:
NCMEC
Florida Missing Children Information Clearinghouse
UDRS
Doenetwork case 279UFMD
LINKS:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/279ufmd.html
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Ag...unsolved_homicides/doe_1976_homicide.mdr.html
badhorsie
Mouth operational, brain elsewhere...
What a beautiful young woman, I pray she gets her name back one day...
chaddylex
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This may seem a little far fetched, but Karen Kamsch wasn't reported missing until 2007 by her brother. His grandma said that she was missing since the winter of 1976. The UID was found in Sept of 1976 in MD (also where Karen Kamsch went missing from)
Maybe the grandma wasn't exactly sure of the date she went missing..
Also they don't list Karen's height or weight on her profile... http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kamsch_karen.html
Just a thought what do you think??
Maybe the grandma wasn't exactly sure of the date she went missing..
Also they don't list Karen's height or weight on her profile... http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/kamsch_karen.html
Just a thought what do you think??
I came across some possibilities: I think this could be Deborah Lowe 1673DFFL. There are also: Dorthy Clitheroe 932DFAZ, Jamie Grissin 1375DFFL, Debra Pscholka 889DFCA or Kathy Wilcox 1367DFMI. Does anyone know if these girls have been compared?
distracted 1976
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You know if you think about the Tattoo angle if she was with John Schaefer this could be the "JS" If they "married" or he claimed her as his wife this could be the "SS" Sue Schaefer. Are you going to submit?
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How about Sharon Pretorius?
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pretorius_sharon.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/279ufmd.html
Her initials S.P. match the possible tattoo initials.
Sharon was described as "tall for her age in 1973", although her height is not mentioned (and she probably would have grown a little more in the three years). The UID was 5'6" to 5'8", which is relatively tall for a woman.
Overall, they look somewhat similar, and they have similar noses, although Sharon does not appear to have the "widow's peak" hairline shown in two of the three forensic drawings.
Is this worth a shot?
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pretorius_sharon.html
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/279ufmd.html
Her initials S.P. match the possible tattoo initials.
Sharon was described as "tall for her age in 1973", although her height is not mentioned (and she probably would have grown a little more in the three years). The UID was 5'6" to 5'8", which is relatively tall for a woman.
Overall, they look somewhat similar, and they have similar noses, although Sharon does not appear to have the "widow's peak" hairline shown in two of the three forensic drawings.
Is this worth a shot?
carbuff
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The way Sharon wears her hair -- center part, pulled into pigtails -- could conceal a widow's peak. One of the descriptions above mentions heavy textured hair; Sharon's looks very unruly. She also looks like she has a fairly robust build, similar to the UID.
The three-year gap is a bit of a stretch, especially since they seem fairly certain she was abducted the day she disappeared. How far is it from Dayton to Maryland?
The three-year gap is a bit of a stretch, especially since they seem fairly certain she was abducted the day she disappeared. How far is it from Dayton to Maryland?