ME - Lewiston, Mass Shooting, Multiple Scenes - Oct 2023

[IceIce9]

I wonder where the “22 confirmed dead” came from last night? Many major networks were reporting the “confirmed “ total of 22 fatalities.

 

[cujenn81]

Interesting that a shooting on this list from earlier in the year took place in Bowdoin, ME. Isn't that the same town where Card is from?

The FBI’s definition of a “mass shooting event” is way too broad, IMO. The data collected using that criteria (4 or more people killed within a 24 hour period) is just too misleading. Because the data includes domestic and gang related events.

Of course, any event where 4 or more people is killed by the same person(s) within 24 hours is equally as tragic as any other… BUT that’s not what the general public thinks about when they hear the term “mass shooting”. They think about a shooter or shooters killing at random in a public place. At least, that’s what I think about anyway.

The New York Times uses a similar but more exclusive definition — 4 or more people killed within 24 hours with no other crime involved. Using this criteria, 8 mass shootings have occurred this year (including this one).

1. Monterey Park, CA - Lunar New Year Party (January 21)
2. Half Moon Bay, CA - mushroom farms (January 23)
3. Nashville, TN - Christian School (March 27)
4. Louisville, KY - bank shooting (April 10)
5. Allen, TX - outlet shops (May 6)
6. Philadelphia, PA - 4th of July celebration (July 3)
7. Hampton, GA - ATL suburb (July 15)
8. Lewiston, ME - bowling alley & bar (October 25)

Maine Mass Shooting Is America’s 8th, and Deadliest, This Year (Published 2023)

Here is how The New York Times tallies mass shootings.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ms_x_to_the_m]

I am aware of that, due to personal experience. But with the sister in law claiming in the link above that he was still having episodes/paranoid thoughts (IMO) over recent months, especially after being inpatient for what are essentially terroristic threats, it's aggravating that nobody took any of it as seriously as they should have. We're always told that if we see something, to say something, and if what the SIL claims is true, then nobody said anything until now. And now it's too late.
I know that there are laws, protocol, etc... and yes, mentally ill people have rights. But the more that comes out, the more it's looking like this guy fell through the cracks somehow and/or people turned a blind eye to what was happening to him. And that is terrifying.
It's a huge clustermuck with seemingly no solution, IMO.
Forgive my rant, it's not directed at you, just the horrible situation.

I understand fully, and agree with you. SO he is hearing voices? So what? People rant and say many things, not always follow through. Can you imagine the legal system if people that heard voices would be taken to jail?
Example: there was a family looking for their mentally ill family member over 3-4 provinces. They even had a facebook page. The police was called. The guy wasn't a threat to himself/others. Unless you thought walking through 3 provinces was harming him. There is nothing that the family can do. Yes, he talks to himself. Yes, he has no money, no coat, no food. Authorities can not just hold him and pump meds into him.
And let's talk about restraining orders, many times it's just a piece of paper. people are not held forever. There needs to be credible threat, not just a "I will do xyxy"
However I do understand what you mean. Just different times.

 

[branmuffin]

So I do wonder if he has been checked for a pituitary lesion/tumor. One of the signs is hearing loss Just thinking out loudView attachment 456018

Hearing voices, especially those that seem to either tell you to do things or voices that bash you are usually associated with a variety of mental disorders like schizophrenia. However, it has been noted that hearing aids can have the ability to pick up radio frequencies sometimes. People who start wearing hearing aids after being hard of hearing for quite a while, all of a sudden start hearing noises that have been missing. Humans use all their senses to gather information so when one sense suddenly starts working again hearing sounds missing for awhile the brain tries to assign patterns to random noises. It's called auditory pareidolia. But I believe RC's issue is related to mental illness.

 

[psych-nurse]

He threatened to shoot up the National Guard Base, you would think that charges would be filed but I guess they weren't.

I can picture a situation where the perp is an army reserve veteran with mental health issues and the Guard Base decides not to press charges against one of their own. They feel like they understand his plight more than most and just supports him getting treatment, which he did. I don't know the details but I can certainly see something like this happening.

 

[karen in New York]

What to know about the Maine mass shooting victims

Following the mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that left 18 dead on Wednesday night, authorities and family members identified the victims.

abcnews.go.com

Some of the victims identified. So sad ...

 

[justtrish]

Hearing voices, especially those that seem to either tell you to do things or voices that bash you are usually associated with a variety of mental disorders like schizophrenia. However, it has been noted that hearing aids can have the ability to pick up radio frequencies sometimes. People who start wearing hearing aids after being hard of hearing for quite a while, all of a sudden start hearing noises that have been missing. Humans use all their senses to gather information so when one suddenly starts working again hearing sounds missing for awhile the brain tries to assign patterns to random noises. It's called auditory pareidolia. But I believe RC's issue is related to mental illness.

Interesting about the hearing aides. I can see how that could happen.

If that was going on for him AND he was having some paranoia about people talking about him or maybe he's misinterpreting social things assuming people were talking about him and having some mental health concerns too, he put it all together and snapped.

 

[arielilane]

Here's a look at Maine's gun laws following deadly mass shooting | Click on the image to read the full story

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717607534565986658

Maine doesn't require permits to carry guns, and the state has a longstanding culture of gun ownership that is tied to its traditions of hunting and sport shooting.

In the state, concealed carry without a permit is limited to people who are 21 or older, with the following exception: If a person is 18 years of age or older and is on active duty in the Armed Forces of the United States or the National Guard, or has been honorably discharged from the Armed Forces or the National Guard, and is not otherwise prohibited from carrying a firearm, the person may carry a concealed handgun.

More at link...

Here's a look at Maine's gun laws following deadly mass shooting

10.26.2023

 

[vls12345]

What to know about the Maine mass shooting victims

Following the mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that left 18 dead on Wednesday night, authorities and family members identified the victims.

abcnews.go.com

Some of the victims identified. So sad ...

So far, two of the identified victims were said to be "part of a gathering of deaf people playing cornhole at Schemengees Bar & Grill." There have been mentions of the suspect's hearing loss (and new hearing aids). Did RC participate in that group previously? Did he target people he knew? MOO.

BBM:

Bill Bracket​

Bill Bracket was confirmed as one of the victims by his father, William Bracket.

His father told ABC News that Bill Bracket was part of a gathering of deaf people playing cornhole at Schemengees Bar & Grill.

[snip]

Steven Vozzella​

Steven Vozzella was confirmed as one of the victims by his brother Nick Vozzella to ABC News.

According to his brother, Steven Vozzella was part of a gathering of deaf people playing cornhole at Schemengees Bar & Grill.

What to know about the Maine mass shooting victims

Following the mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, that left 18 dead on Wednesday night, authorities and family members identified the victims.

abcnews.go.com

Maine shooting suspect Robert Card ‘truly believed he was hearing people say things’ about him at bowling alley, bar murder sites: family

“He truly believed he was hearing people say things. This all just happened within the last few months,” said Katie O’Neill, who is married to Card’s brother.

nypost.com

In the lead-up to the shooting,Card started using high powered hearing aids, O’Neill explained.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Information on gun and red flags laws (or lack thereof) in ME

What to know on Maine gun laws after the Lewiston shootings: No background checks or red flag laws

Residents have voted down some attempts to tighten gun laws in the state.

www.nbcnews.com

ack, paywall

 

[sds71]

CNN: Investigators are exploring a theory that the Lewiston shooter recently broke up with his girlfriend and the two shooting locations are places they frequented when they were together.

https://x.com/lookner/status/1717614498465411130?s=20

 

[vls12345]

Who was Robert Card? Confirmed details on Maine gunman

Robert Card, the gunman in the deadly mass shooting in Lewiston, Maine, was found dead, law enforcement sources told CBS News on Friday. Here's what to know.

www.cbsnews.com

"State Police said a "vehicle of interest" was recovered by police in Lisbon. The vehicle matched a description of a vehicle that Card was known to have been driving following the shooting, a 2013 white Subaru Outback with a black bumper, which appeared in the law enforcement bulletin.

According to a law enforcement bulletin, Card has two other vehicles registered to him: a 2022 Yamaha motorcycle and a 2019 Sea Doo green boat. Both are registered in Maine."

 

[thelesis]

Nova Scotia, April 2020. Took 2 days to catch and kill him. He had a fake police vehicle.

I just hope it doesn't go on like Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky's spree. They had an 8 day lead, but they covered a lot of ground because they stayed rural. If this guy crossed the Canadian border away from an actual crossing, he could be in the middle of nowhere Quebec forest.

 

[mickey2942]

I just hope it doesn't go on like Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky's spree. They had an 8 day lead, but they covered a lot of ground because they stayed rural. If this guy crossed the Canadian border away from an actual crossing, he could be in the middle of nowhere Quebec forest.

There are tons of small summer camps and cabins in the area that are closed up for winter. He may have scouted around and found some place to hunker down. This could be a tough man hunt.

 

[Diddian]

More from John Miller:

Recently lost his job at a recycling plant, which could have been a precipitating stressor.

Interesting. There is a recycling plant adjacent to the Walmart Distribution Center in Lewiston. Early news reports mentioned the Walmart Distribution Center as a third shooting scene (and it is close to Schemengees, the second shooting scene which is 4 miles away from the bowling alley that was the first shooting scene), but Walmart later issued a statement that there had been no shooting at their site.

Could there have been SOME associated activity at the nearby recycling plant (such as shooting, but no victim, or suspect or his vehicle spotted there)? I wonder if that is the plant where Card recently lost his job.

 

[Justice101]

It is a very rural area and there will be lots of places to hide... but they will use thermal cameras and the like tonight and my hope is they spot him if he is out roughing it.

 

[MesquiteO21]

I just hope it doesn't go on like Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky's spree. They had an 8 day lead, but they covered a lot of ground because they stayed rural. If this guy crossed the Canadian border away from an actual crossing, he could be in the middle of nowhere Quebec forest.

i remember following that story here, it was absolutely terrifying.

 

[Dotta]

How Army reservist killed at least 18 during one hour rifle rampage

Army reservist and firearms instructor Robert Card, 40, is currently being hunted as a suspect in the deadly shooting by state and federal police. Police have warned civilians to stay away from Card

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[CrimeDawg123]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

Interesting: N109US Flight Tracking and History - FlightAware
ETA - this seems to be near the boat launch/Androscoggin River where the car was found rather than the Kennebec River

 

[Auntie Cipation]

The FBI’s definition of a “mass shooting event” is way too broad, IMO. The data collected using that criteria (4 or more people killed within a 24 hour period) is just too misleading. Because the data includes domestic and gang related events.

Of course, any event where 4 or more people is killed by the same person(s) within 24 hours is equally as tragic as any other… BUT that’s not what the general public thinks about when they hear the term “mass shooting”. They think about a shooter or shooters killing at random in a public place. At least, that’s what I think about anyway.

The New York Times uses a similar but more exclusive definition — 4 or more people killed within 24 hours with no other crime involved. Using this criteria, 8 mass shootings have occurred this year (including this one).

1. Monterey Park, CA - Lunar New Year Party (January 21)
2. Half Moon Bay, CA - mushroom farms (January 23)
3. Nashville, TN - Christian School (March 27)
4. Louisville, KY - bank shooting (April 10)
5. Allen, TX - outlet shops (May 6)
6. Philadelphia, PA - 4th of July celebration (July 3)
7. Hampton, GA - ATL suburb (July 15)
8. Lewiston, ME - bowling alley & bar (October 25)

Maine Mass Shooting Is America’s 8th, and Deadliest, This Year (Published 2023)

Here is how The New York Times tallies mass shootings.

www.nytimes.com

Perhaps so, but in a small town the size of Bowdoin, even a "too-small-to-count-as-a-mass-killing" murder of four people at once would be a traumatic community event that could possibly have spurred JC to consider carrying forward his thoughts into action.

A town near me of similar size (around 3000 people) experienced just such a killing a decade or so ago, and I can tell you we were all in a certain level of traumatic shock for many months afterwards.

It isn't the label that matters IMO, but the happening.