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The Jon Benet Ramsay case has puzzled me from the very beginning. Nothing about it makes sense and that's probably what the murderer intended. I've read all the books, internet postings, videos in Youtube and TV and still come to the same conclusion. The parents had nothing to do with this. It is impossible to believe a mother, even one who thought her son had murdered his sister accidently, would insert anything into her child's vagina. Even the most evil of women would have a difficult time doing this, for someone like Patsy it would be unthinkable. Nor have I ever believed her brother or father did it. Jon Benet was a very loved child. The condition of her body was "overkill". This was done by someone who knew the family well, maybe in a housekeeper capacity, and it was 2 people who did this. A man and a woman.
A woman wrote that note while the male accomplice killed Jon Benet. Whomever the woman was, she hated Patsy with a passion, was jealous beyond reason, and wanted to hurt her as much as she possibly could. The person who wrote the ransom note knew exactly how much John had received as a bonus and was insanely jealous. He may or not have been a pedophile but he certainly had no problem murdering a child. The broken window in the basement had nothing to do with the entry into the house. The perps were there long before the Ramsay's returned home. They waited until the family had gone to bed, placed the phony ransom note on the stairs and removed Jon Benet from her bed. Jon Benet knew them otherwise she would have screamed and struggled. Two things about the ransom note have always bothered me one it was definitely written by a woman, no man would be bothered to write such a laborious letter. A jealous woman would. Women tend to write more detail because that's the way our minds work. Also the way $ has been written. To me it looks like someone started to write £ then changed it to $. I know because I've done it many times when I first moved from England to the US. Which leads me to think the "foreign faction" may have been a Brit. Who was British in the Ramsays circle. Not a friend, it had to be someone who worked for the Ramsay's, was not on their social level, may have been treated well by the Ramsays but not considered friends. The fact that no other child has ever been killed in such a fashion is another reason I believe it was a personal attack on the Ramsays, their wealth, status and position in the community. The help, housekeeper, cleaners, odd job/handymen needed to be scrutinized more carefully. I still think this can be solved.
 
I'm also new to this board, so, thanks for reading in advance.

I've recently felt strongly about the intruder-using-a-stun-gun theory, only to find out that this was dismissed as improbable years ago. And it does seem clear to me that Patsy wrote the ransom letter primarily to send a message to her husband, who would have understood it like no one else.

So, I still have questions.

If the adults know there's a body in the house, do they call the police at 5:00 in the morning to investigate? Wouldn't they want more time to make plans, whatever those plans might be? The body wasn't really hidden at all.

If Burke killed JonBenet, and woke his mother, and she arranged the cover-up, would she have done it without John's knowledge and/or help? Why or why not?

If Patsy killed JonBenet, could she have calmly written that note after a gruesome murder?

If it was an accident, why the kidnap plot at all? Why not figure out how to hide or dispose of the body, and then come up with the kidnap ruse?

Etc., etc.

Meanwhile, if the intruder(s) came in to kidnap JonBenet, but it went wrong, and they had to kill her (and I'm convinced the vagina damage was an afterthought), many of the questions are answered. They came in calmly through a door, wrote the note, hid, the event happened, they had to leave quickly, and left the note behind, Patsy found it, not knowing there was a body, called the police, perfectly plausible.

I'm not talking about evidence, but simply offering an observation, that the intruder theory answers a lot of questions, but the family-as-murderers theory raises a lot of questions that will never be answered.
 
And yes, I believe if it was the intruder, they had a key, and went in and out by the doors. No break-in necessary, but perhaps some knowledge about family habits, up front. Burglars do this all the time.
 
I am going to keep asking about the idi thread. please dont delete my posts
 
I'm also new to this board, so, thanks for reading in advance.

I've recently felt strongly about the intruder-using-a-stun-gun theory, only to find out that this was dismissed as improbable years ago. And it does seem clear to me that Patsy wrote the ransom letter primarily to send a message to her husband, who would have understood it like no one else.

So, I still have questions.

If the adults know there's a body in the house, do they call the police at 5:00 in the morning to investigate? Wouldn't they want more time to make plans, whatever those plans might be? The body wasn't really hidden at all.

If Burke killed JonBenet, and woke his mother, and she arranged the cover-up, would she have done it without John's knowledge and/or help? Why or why not?

If Patsy killed JonBenet, could she have calmly written that note after a gruesome murder?

If it was an accident, why the kidnap plot at all? Why not figure out how to hide or dispose of the body, and then come up with the kidnap ruse?

Etc., etc.

Meanwhile, if the intruder(s) came in to kidnap JonBenet, but it went wrong, and they had to kill her (and I'm convinced the vagina damage was an afterthought), many of the questions are answered. They came in calmly through a door, wrote the note, hid, the event happened, they had to leave quickly, and left the note behind, Patsy found it, not knowing there was a body, called the police, perfectly plausible.

I'm not talking about evidence, but simply offering an observation, that the intruder theory answers a lot of questions, but the family-as-murderers theory raises a lot of questions that will never be answered.

Here's a better place to discuss it:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?117738-Ask-Super-Part-3/page26
 
It wasn't Patsy, John or Burke.

The ransom letter was almost certainly written by Patsy. It's a ridiculously long and rambling letter that reeks of what a female middle-class suburbanite THINKS a ransom note would read like. An intruder isn't going to mess around in the house writing a 2½ page letter. It defies all sense. They would simply write something like 'We have your daughter. Wait for further instructions. No police.' Something along those lines.

However, contrary to popular belief, Patsy writing the letter doesn't prove or even suggest guilt on Burke's part, it only means that the parents suspected it was him. With no obvious signs of a break in, it's not inconceivable that the two panic-stricken parents would suspect him if an item of Burke's was found near the body, but I don't think he was capable of it. It takes a special kind of nine year-old to commit such a sadistic crime. If he was the murderer, no doubt he would've cracked under police questioning and this kind of psychopathic behaviour would've manifested itself again by now. A young kid doesn't murder their sister in cold blood like that and simply grow up without incident. Besides, the DNA evidence taken from JonBenet's underwear wasn't a match for Burke's, so that's another point in his favour.
 
----"" It takes a special kind of nine year-old to commit such a sadistic crime.""---------

Define "special kind". Why would Burk not be this special kind.

-----"A young kid doesn't murder their sister in cold blood like that and simply grow up without incident."---------

Burke hit his sister before with force enough to warrant a hospital visit. That would be a prior incident.

Not to joke, but if you have never wanted to have kill your sibling multiple times, you have never had a sibling. It's like saying husbands don't murder their wives without any intent. That happens all the time.
 
It wasn't Patsy, John or Burke.

The ransom letter was almost certainly written by Patsy. It's a ridiculously long and rambling letter that reeks of what a female middle-class suburbanite THINKS a ransom note would read like. An intruder isn't going to mess around in the house writing a 2½ page letter. It defies all sense. They would simply write something like 'We have your daughter. Wait for further instructions. No police.' Something along those lines.

However, contrary to popular belief, Patsy writing the letter doesn't prove or even suggest guilt on Burke's part, it only means that the parents suspected it was him. With no obvious signs of a break in, it's not inconceivable that the two panic-stricken parents would suspect him if an item of Burke's was found near the body, but I don't think he was capable of it. It takes a special kind of nine year-old to commit such a sadistic crime. If he was the murderer, no doubt he would've cracked under police questioning and this kind of psychopathic behaviour would've manifested itself again by now. A young kid doesn't murder their sister in cold blood like that and simply grow up without incident. Besides, the DNA evidence taken from JonBenet's underwear wasn't a match for Burke's, so that's another point in his favour.

Crimes of Passion happen all the time. People kill people they loved all the time.
 
Still waiting. Please Address this

I don't know the answer but I will ask Tricia. Right now she has a family member who is seriously ill and I am not about to bother her with this. So plan on waiting a bit longer. Until then, let it go.
 
Was just looking into John's behavior post-Jonbenet, and I have to say it matches that of other narcissistic murderers who "got away with it" to a T.

He's appeared on multiple TV shows--Barbara Walters most recently--to talk about his loss and how tragic his life has been. He co-authored the infamous book with his wife in an attempt to draw sympathy/look innocent. Then he authored another book by himself. (Remember OJ's book "If I Did It?" He just had to flaunt the fact that he got away with it). He also dated a high-profile woman whose daughter was abducted - Beth Holloway.

John also claims to have been a victim of "an intruder" in 2001, which just happened to be the same day as his lawyer appeared on the Today Show. The whole robbery story is VERY questionable from beginning to end. Oh, and he ran for public office a few years before his wife died. Is that something a normal person would do when they are openly hated by most of America and have been fighting negative press for years? No, but it's something a narcissist would do.

My point? I think John is addicted to looking like a victim, much like a Munchausen sufferer is addicted to attention. After losing Beth he probably got a lot of attention and sympathy. I think it broke him emotionally, as he was heard wailing in the attic after she died. That might've been the turning point where his mind became warped and he formed an unhealthy relationship with Jonbenet. Maybe he was craving more attention when he killed her? He was an avid true crime reader who may have planned some of the elements of the murder in advance...or at least fantasized about it. Books were found in the home that contained details eerily similar to the crime scene. At the very least, his knowledge of such things helped in the subsequent coverup.

Women are more likely to suffer from Munchausen-like behavior, but men can have it too. Killers--especially those who get away with it--often think they're smarter than everyone else and can't help but flaunt this fact in a very public way. Case-in-point: Chase Merritt, who killed the McStay family, was planning to write a book implicating someone else and had appeared on a CNN special about the crime. And then there's Robert Durst, who recently appeared in a 6-part HBO series about his insane life.

TL;DR - John's behavior since his daughter's death has been consistent with that of other narcissistic murderers who got away with it. I don't mean to imply that John has Munchausen's; only that he is an attention-seeking sympathy hog who looks very suspicious from a behavioral standpoint.

MOO, of course :)
 
IMO, you nailed it OR. I believe JR'S disorder took a dive into an abyss when Beth got killed, and led to everything thereafter connected to JB. There are those who will never be able to understand that JR suffers from the smoke and mirrors of his own delusion to the point of believing he is someone other than his own reality.
 
Was just looking into John's behavior post-Jonbenet, and I have to say it matches that of other narcissistic murderers who "got away with it" to a T.

I had been running through scenarios similar to this in my head the past few days. I had always thought PR was the one who craved attention and showed these strange traits. Now I'm seeing it this way, and I have to say JR really does fit as well. My only question is ... how did he get PR on board? It appears she wrote the note. If nothing else, she seems to be helping him lie. Were they both like this? Was it a perfect storm situation? Maybe she had her own problems that accompanied his very well?
 
^You're right about Patsy, IMO! She was Miss West Virginia fer Christsake. Doesn't get more attention-hungry than that! :D

It's possible Patsy was scared of John or just valued their image/lifestyle too much to go against him. She's certainly not the first woman to be brainwashed by a charismatic narcissist like John. A scary number of people go through life in deep denial about the people they love, especially those in abusive or co-dependent relationships.

I definitely think PR played some role in the murder--at least writing the ransom note and probably more. But I think if Patsy alone had killed John's daughter after he'd already lost another child, he would've not only divorced her but turned her in to police before sundown! I could see PR staying with JR if he committed the same crime, however. (Just MOO!)

All perpetrators need an enabler to cover for them. You see it all the time with women who shack up with a child molester and look the other way as he victimizes her own kids. Without these women's enabling behavior, it would be much harder (or impossible) for pedos to harm kids.

I could definitely see Patsy in the enabler role. This family had some dark secrets.
 
Here's my version of events
A short time after they came home, while kids were busy with their gifts P went upstairs to pack a few clothes for the vacation as they would leave very early in the morning. Then she told the kids to go their beds but they said they were hungry so she put the pineapple bowl to the kitchen table for them to have some snack. Later on all of them went upstairs , changing their clothes, JB put on her pink Barbie nightie and B his and they went to their rooms to sleep. P having drunk at the Whites party and being too tired, she put on her nightgown , J was already in bed and they fell asleep ..

But downstairs , the kids were still awake and started fighting for a reason. I am pretty sure B was terribily jealous of his sister , she got all the attention of not only the parents but everyone around. Mom was always busy with her shows , costumes, makeup, photos etc. no time and energy left for B. Whether during playing doctor or another escalating anger jealousy session, ( JB's bed appears as unslept to me ) B ran after her , she went to her room and B hit her hardly on the head with probably one of her pageant trophies from behind and she fell down unconsonscious ,the trauma on her skull was so bad that she unfortunately was dead in a short time. B was in shock, was afraid to wake up his parents , he picked her up and held her in his arms, JB's arms up on his shoulders dangling and he slowly carried her down the stairs, and put her in the basement out of sight. He put her in the same position as he carried her, her arms up and as she was found in the morning. He went to his bed and pretended sleeping..

At about 05:00- 05:30 in the morning the parents woke up, P went downstairs to wake kids up, JB was not in her room, B was pretending asleep but could hear P turning on and off the lights of the rooms and she called J down, they woke B and asked him when they went to bed and or whether he knew where his sister is. B was bubbling and they made him talk and take them to the basement..he said was an accident .. They told him JB will be ok and to go to bed and not to come out until they call him..

They knew that they had a very short time ( max between 30-60 minutes) to call the police .. they made the kidnapping plan to save B and their family reputation. J would stage the basement and P would write a ransom note. P and J decided to wear the same clothes they wore the day before otherwise any fibre , hair from Jb on a new cloth of them would be suspicious .. J also took JB's white sweater she wore on the whites party to the basement. He staged downstairs and her lifeless body as if she was tortured and killed by a sadistic intruder.. Rigor mortis had set in and he tied her arms as they were up on her head , and the damage with the paintbrush and imo those marks on her body could cigarette burns thus to the effect a horrible killer was in .
(Also cigarette budds was collected from the basement as evidence)..

They didnt't have much time to evaluate and rewrite the funny ransom letter....
And then the 911 call. B steps in and he was rebuked by J .. They dictated him the last instructions and he went on pretending asleep as he did all night..
Just my opinion and pure speculation ..
 
I agree. B secret smoking in the basement like kids do. and play time (sexual) with JB (sexualized). went horribly wrong. parents avoided scandal the best way they knew how, to lie and deceive. Patsy did enable John who was a functioning addict. lots are dark secrets, yes indeed.

but where is B now? still quiet.
 
Hi, I have been reading here for a while but not really posting. Here is my theory. I think BR was displaying both aggressive tendencies (the previous golf club incident) and was also possibly sexually molesting JonBenet. JonBenets' oversexualized appearance, close proximity, and childhood curiosity mixing together. The fact that they were alone on another floor did not help. I think that night, after Patsy and John went to bed, JonBenet and BR went downstairs, with the help of a flashlight as to not wake up anyone with lights, for a snack. They got pineapple and BR decided on tea. (Patsy's fingerprints would be on dishes in her kitchen) They possibly ended up down the basement looking for more presents because they had seen packages there. I am not sure how things transpired but evidently sexual play may have been involved and certainly anger. I also think BR may have started the strangulation when, I am not sure. At some point, I think BR threatened to hit JB if she made any noise but at some point he hurt her enough that she screamed out of pain. That's when he hit her with the flashlight. The scream, I think, did alert the parents and that is when they became involved. Having known of BR anger issues and possibly of previous sexual assaults on JB, I think they may have felt tremendous guilt. For both children. (I think the grand jury's true bill goes alone with my theory to a large degree.) As for what transpired after that, I think it was a large coverup. Did the R's know the legal laws govern Colorado's youthful offenders at midnight on Dec 26th, I doubt it. Did they find out soon after, sure. But by then they may have already done things that they could not easily explain away.
 
Has anyone heard of Edward Edwards? The serial killer that would set people up for his murders and has even allowed innocent people to get executed. There is information linking him into the JonBenet murder. There is some interesting information on coldcasecameron.com website. It gives a lot of information about Edwards.
 
Really? This guys name comes up in every "suspected framing" case. He supposedly killed Teresa Haibach too. How do we know? Because there was a guy in the background of one of the courtroom broadcasts that kinda looked like him. Tin foil hats and conspiracy theorists abound on then internet.

Here's the description of the book about him :doh:

send a check, 34.95 to John Cameron, 820 5th ave North, Great Falls Mt. 59401. I will send you a book immediately.

By rope, by knife, by gun, by fire – that is how Edward Wayne Edwards killed hundreds of innocent victims over a 66-year murderous career. And he was never caught!Never heard of Edward Wayne Edwards? No? Well you will now. His victims included such well-known cases as Chandra Levy, The Atlanta Child Killings, Marilyn Sheppard, Stephanie Bryan and the Black Dahlia. He was the famous Zodiac Killer who left a trail of murder near San Francisco in the 1970’s. He killed dozens of couples parked on lover’s lanes for decades. He brutally murdered two sets of three boys in Chicago, and in West Memphis, Arkansas, almost 40 years apart. He was responsible for the murders of hitch-hiking teenagers along Highway 101 in California and the Colonial Parkway in Virgina in the 70’s and 80’s.Edwards, posting as Santa Claus in 1996, groomed his way into pretty, six-year-old JonBenet Ramsey’s life in Boulder, Colorado and set up her parents John and Patsy. It almost worked. Forty years earlier in Berkeley, California he staged a similar kidnapping of 14-year-old Stephanie Bryan. He set up Burton Abbott, 27-year-old ex-GI University of California accounting student and Burton was executed in 1957 while Edwards was sitting in Deer Lodge Prison, Montana.

Got your tin foil hat?
 
Statistically and Logically there is only one answer for me:

Abuse by a parent gone too far.

I suspect JR was an Abuser and a Bully and had a strangle hold on his family. The Ransom Note was PR's desperate misguided attempt to implicate John without seeming to implicate him in case it failed and she faced his wrath.

The BDI theory is illogical to me, also its not Burke still spraying himself all over Prime Time Tv 20 years later. :( Duper's Delight.
 
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