Members' Theories

[Userid]

I only read part of this but here goes:

If you're going to base your points off of message boards, that's risky. The alarm system post on reddit already sounds suspect because, that's not how alarm systems work. Normally, when the house's alarm goes off, the police will first call the residence before sending over any sort of police, ambulance, or fire vehicle. I know this because I had one. The police station calls and they ask for the pass code. If you don't know it, they won't send multiple vehicles to your house -- they would send one police car/officer, who would arrive. You would show him your ID, and it's as simple as that. So, to me, that reddit post is not credible at all and was probably written by someone who never owned a security system in his/her life. They wouldn't send multiple vehicles like that, even if PR didn't answer the phone (which she would have anyway -- because why wouldn't she in that scenario?). If there was no answer when the police called, they would send the nearest police car or maybe two at the most -- they wouldn't send the entire cavalry.

Also, perhaps JBR looked like that the last months was directly due to her wetting the bed. It could be a myriad of things.

 

[sushshaf]

I think the perp was known to the Ramseys. Was close enough to them to know of the bonus but was not very wealthy since they thought that was a good figure to quote. A bonus of 118k means John had access to a lot more money than that. Was it a workman who had been in the house? Was there a document somewhere in the house that stated what John's bonus was?
I think the bed wetting is a red herring. The reason is I am very familiar with this. One of my daughters has a large bladder and strong pelvic floor muscles and the other not. The second daughter also sleeps really deeply. It is when she is paralysed in sleep that she will wet the bed. It is familial. So either Patsy or John was also a bedwetter. If Patsy got upset with JBR bedwetting then John would tell her the reality of bedwetting and vice versa. It is not connected with sexual abuse. Redness on the external labia could be from the urine in contact with the skin. Think of diaper rash.
The perp had been in the house before and knew the layout. That night I think he came to rob. He left by the front/back door.
I think the head injury was caused by a flash light.
I think JBR had woken and been hungry and gone downstairs and perhaps came across the perp in the process of robbing the house. She was naive and did not get upset when she saw the perp in the house because she had seen him before. The perp offered JBR the pineapple to eat.
I think there is DNA on the inside of the garotte as skin cells would have rubbed off as the perp fashioned the garotte. Don't understand why this hasn't been explored.
I think it was an opportunistic crime. This person had not done anything like this before. Perhaps JBR had taken off her PJs since she wet them and her half naked body aroused the intruder. Once he had sexually abused her he knew he had to kill her otherwise she could identify him. I don't think he has done anything since.

 

[Steve Eller]

I think that people should take time to familiarize themselves with basic facts of the case before formulating “theories”. Robust disagreements can exist between people who believe JDI, PDI, BDI, but one thing is for sure, and that this heinous murder was not committed by anyone outside the home—there was no intruder.

 

[InvSmith]

Thank you for your great analysis.

Confused Timeline
I have come to the thought as well that this is a much longer case of child abuse than the bracketed death timeline. I think this is why some of the confusion exists in the case. In an investigation, building a timeline of events is a top priority if not the top priority. Without a proper timeline, you cannot control the variables you are going to investigate along that timeline.

Stressed Family
I think it is absolutely insane for anyone to think this was not a stressed family. They had been through a prior death of a child. John through a divorce. They shared a mixed family. John traveled heavily. Plus, he had prior affair(s) on his first wife. Then there is and was Patsy's cancer. On top of this, you have two young children with signs of bladder and fecal control issues. There was nothing normal about this household except for trying to appear normal.

Autopsy
The autopsy was clear that this was strangulation (you see where she dug at her neck) with a head injury plus other lacerations on her body and vaginal trauma. Jonbenet was tortured first then hit on the head.

Summary
At a minimum, this abuse goes from her first head injury to her final death. My guess is much longer.

 

[InvSmith]

I think that people should take time to familiarize themselves with basic facts of the case before formulating “theories”. Robust disagreements can exist between people who believe JDI, PDI, BDI, but one thing is for sure, and that this heinous murder was not committed by anyone outside the home—there was no intruder.

Absolutely! If you just read the family's statements; it is all right there.

 

[ThinkLogically]

Some things that stuck out to me:

So IMO there's without a doubt involvement from someone in the house. I say this because of evidence the crime scene was staged, and the fact that this would be the first time in history a ransom note was left inside the house WITH the intended victim dead there as well. I won't go through everything but there were no ligature marks on the wrist, and the tape over her mouth had no signs of struggle or resistance on the inside (sticky side). This means she was incapacitated and or dead first, and then tied up. There's quite a bit more evidence pointing in this direction as well, but I also want to point out that Pattsy's fingerprints were all over the bowl and spoon that had the pineapple JBR ate. There were no drugs in her system either so hopefully that puts an end to the theory she was drugged with pineapple by an intruder theory I keep seeing. Last but not least it's very strange to me that she was handled by multiple people upon finding her body yet none of their DNA was discovered on JBR, which makes me question that area as well. There' so much more but this is a theory section so I won't write an essay about that here.

My theory(s)

1) Covering up an accident:

JBR somehow acquired her head injuries without true malice, and then panic caused the parent(s) to stage a murder. I say without true intent to cause the harm it did because I doubt she acquired that massive of trauma by complete accident. My guess is Pattsy but it could of been from anyone in the family. It might seem ridiculous but let's see how many other people come up with dumb ideas under massive amounts of stress like this would cause.

2) Rape/Sexual Assault gone wrong:

The little girl certainly seemed to be over sexualized for her age, and I wouldn't be surprised If she had been sexually assaulted before. This doesn't always mean penetration or even stimulation to her private areas so just because she had been checked before doesn't mean something like this wasn't going on. It could of been by the family or by friends invited to the home to do so and ended up going too far. By this point it could of been impossible to bring her into hospital for her head injuries without being discovered, so they killed her and staged the scene. Perhaps even trying to frame one of the friends by leaving their semen behind as evidence.

Rape/Sexual Assault and Intentional Murder:

It's possible that whoever assaulted her (family or friends of) intentionally killed her during the act and then staged the scene to avoid capture.

Final thoughts: It seems strange that they staged the scene but left the semen by accident so I'm going to assume they meant to leave it there but people do stupid things when they arent thinking straight. The one thing im sure of is that someone in that house was involved. Had they not been, then the idea of leaving a ransom note would make no sense for so many reasons that are obvious. Let me know what you guys think!!!

 

[The Man On The Stairs]

When I practised dealing with violent mentally ill offenders, they tend to fantasize a lot - way off in a construct away from reality to feed a broken id that was starved of attention and the the attention they got was the wrong type so I take this with a pinch of salt: but worth exploring just in case. Pedophile Confesses to Killing JonBenet Ramsey in Letters to Friend

 

[Steve Eller]

Thank you for your great analysis.

Confused Timeline
I have come to the thought as well that this is a much longer case of child abuse than the bracketed death timeline. I think this is why some of the confusion exists in the case. In an investigation, building a timeline of events is a top priority if not the top priority. Without a proper timeline, you cannot control the variables you are going to investigate along that timeline.

Stressed Family
I think it is absolutely insane for anyone to think this was not a stressed family. They had been through a prior death of a child. John through a divorce. They shared a mixed family. John traveled heavily. Plus, he had prior affair(s) on his first wife. Then there is and was Patsy's cancer. On top of this, you have two young children with signs of bladder and fecal control issues. There was nothing normal about this household except for trying to appear normal.

Autopsy
The autopsy was clear that this was strangulation (you see where she dug at her neck) with a head injury plus other lacerations on her body and vaginal trauma. Jonbenet was tortured first then hit on the head.

Summary
At a minimum, this abuse goes from her first head injury to her final death. My guess is much longer.

The head blow came first before the strangulation. Anyone who claims otherwise did not have access to the autopsy and police reports. Whoever struck the head blow did it accidentally.

 

[Gracie55]

D

 

[Lesliebham]

The head blow came first before the strangulation. Anyone who claims otherwise did not have access to the autopsy and police reports. Whoever struck the head blow did it accidentally.

Interested in what about the autopsy could indicate whether a blue to the Head was accidental or intentional?

 

[Safeguard]

I think any intruder or stranger murder theory has been laid to rest after all these years. This case, to me, is as simple as can be. Evenso, it has been thoroughly dissected through the years.

Only in the minds of RDI believers. There are many, many people who feel it is possible it wasn't a family member.

(Although most IDI folks will at least allow for the possibility that they might be wrong) .

And since the ramsy's were legally cleared, I feel it's a valid discussion.

People are entitled to their own opinions. (All people not JUST RDI people). Imo.

 

[fridaybaker]

Only in the minds of RDI believers. There are many, many people who feel it is possible it wasn't a family member.

(Although most IDI folks will at least allow for the possibility that they might be wrong) .

And since the ramsy's were legally cleared, I feel it's a valid discussion.

People are entitled to their own opinions. (All people not JUST RDI people). Imo.

Safeguard, can I ask your opinion on the author of the RN? That was such a tip-off for me. It just screams PR to me -everything about it from content, phraseology (if that's a word) punctuation, etc.

That content! "Small foreign faction"? 90% of it is exactly how I would think PR's thoughts would be oriented. I simply can't imagine anyone else writing a RN that is so personal to PR. Any thoughts?

 

[Safeguard]

Safeguard, can I ask your opinion on the author of the RN? That was such a tip-off for me. It just screams PR to me -everything about it from content, phraseology (if that's a word) punctuation, etc.

That content! "Small foreign faction"? 90% of it is exactly how I would think PR's thoughts would be oriented. I simply can't imagine anyone else writing a RN that is so personal to PR. Any thoughts?

Every single syllable of that note has been gone over, (and over, 50 million different ways.), and no one can say conclusively Patsy wrote it.

Why is that?

If you're RDI There is no doubt Patsy wrote it, because... reasons. Reasons which, even when they could have other possible explanations, just never will.

If you're IDI the note is the the most puzzing aspect. imo.

However as has been pointed out by many, there are similar notes written in other cases (where the subject has already been murdered) obviously Patsy didn't write those.

There is so much hair splitting in this case, (and btw I am neither IDI nor RDI I am more of an IDKWTHDI).

Literally!

"The hair has been identified as belonging to Patsy ramsey’s maternal line."

So many stories, novels, movies, theories have been spun that it seems to me some people can't see the Forest For the Trees (real or imaginary) anymore.

As for myself, until I can somehow make myself believe that this woman, who's very identity was so totally wrapped up in beauty, particularly the beauty of her little girl, could mangle her child's corps and have that be JonBenet's last photo shoot...

Even for her son sake (as the BDI peeps claim which is imo quite a stretch! ). I don't get the sense that she shared an ego with him like she did jb.

I dont think so. I just dont, looking at their lives prior to the crime.

Even in the event that there was a horrible "accident"... because... no motive exists... suddenly the whole family turns into Sexual Deviants, Mommy Dearests, Evil Sibling, Village Idiots , who so obviously lost it, killed the child, mangled the heck out of her remains, and kicked back, and developed the most ridiculous plan ever, (with all the money and time they had at their disposal!) ... Patsy calmly, careful to alter her handwriting, derives this lengthy ransom note?

Why can't I just believe that chit? A lot of people do. But I don't.

 

[southernmimi]

I don't think many of us ,outside the close friends and family circle, have any idea of the Ramsey's family life prior to the crime. Perhaps, if we knew what their family dynamics truly were understanding RDI would be much easier.

 

[Userid]

If you're IDI the note is the the most puzzing aspect. imo.

Obviously. That's because there is no logical explanation why an intruder wouldn't write the note before entering the home.

The note was written after the murder. Even in an IDI scenario, if the original intent was to kidnap for ransom, the killer would have written/assembled the note before stepping foot inside the home. It would have been the first step in the crime. But that didn't happen here. The note was written with items from the very crime scene -- which signifies that its creation was spur-of-the-moment.

Main point: the note was written to divert attention from the murder, after it had taken place -- and if an intruder were responsible for this crime, he wouldn't need to write such a note or divert said attention. He wouldn't have risked hanging around once the murder had occurred to write a lengthy note he simply didn't have to. The crime was done. He will never see this family again. Remember, this is just some unknown intruder. All he would have to do, is simply leave.

Now, if there is a more logical explanation than that with regard to an intruder being responsible for the ransom note, please feel free to elaborate. But I've yet to ever come across one.

 

[Safeguard]

. Even in an IDI scenario, if the original intent was to kidnap for ransom, the killer would have written/assembled the note before stepping foot inside the home. It would have been the first step in the crime

No one can say, with certainty, what the original intent was, nor the point of the "ransom" note. Except the killer.

the note was written with items from the very crime scene -- which signifies that its creation was spur-of-the-moment.

Why would the Ramsey's be so ridiculously stupid? (Jeese J&P You're educated people, running a business, at the very least dispose of the damn note pad!).

Main point: the note was written to divert attention from the murder, after it had taken place

MmmmHmm. And how long did that "delay" anything? So...uh... they went through with all the trouble writing that bizarre note, only to have J discover her shortly after the cops came? Why? (bother).

Lots of murderers have left odd, unexplainable notes and other items at the scene... to torment, as "jokes" (that only they "get".), or clues ect...

Why would the Ramsey's write that note? It only made THEM look BAD. They don't strike me as complete idiots.

 

[Userid]

No one can say, with certainty, what the original intent was, nor the point of the "ransom" note. Except the killer.

Why would the Ramsey's be so ridiculously stupid? (Jeese J&P You're educated people, running a business, at the very least dispose of the damn note pad!).



MmmmHmm. And how long did that "delay" anything? So...uh... they went through with all the trouble writing that bizarre note, only to have J discover her shortly after the cops came? Why? (bother).

Lots of murderers have left odd, unexplainable notes and other items at the scene... to torment, as "jokes" (that only they "get".), or clues ect...

Why would the Ramsey's write that note? It only made THEM look BAD. They don't strike me as complete idiots.

1. We can deduce, from what we actually do know about the case, and particularly, the ransom note.

2. The R's would be that stupid, because they were that desperate. What was the alternative -- to run out to the store and buy a notepad and pen in the wee-hours of the morning? And risk being seen on store cameras and/or by neighbors leaving the house at that hour? They needed to use what they had at their house. PR put both the pad and the pen in their normal spots -- why would an intruder need to do that?

Also, I will just as easily ask: why would the intruder be that stupid? To use his own handwriting, as opposed to assembling a ransom note before entering the home? And to hang around that long in the crime scene? You can't answer this.

Also, why would the killer write 2 practice notes, throw and leave them in the trashcan, before the actual ransom note? Another question you won't be able to answer.

3. Um, it delayed it for hours! The police were called around 6:30 a.m and the body wasn't found until, what 1:30 p.m.? That's 7 hours! The cops did not discover the body "shortly after."

J discovered her because LA (the detective) made FW go with J to search the basement again. It was not JR's idea to search it again, but once she told him to (and to have FW go with), he was trapped, and it would have looked suspicious if he had tried to prevent FW from searching that particular basement room.

4. The R's (PR) wrote the note because again, they were trying to divert attention from the fact that she was murdered. And it almost worked. If LA doesn't tell JR and FW to search the basement again, the cops would have eventually left the house and JR would have been able to dispose of the body.

There is a difference between being smart and being just smart enough (i.e. not stupid) to commit a crime. For the most part, they were smart; and they did get away with it -- but these aren't professional criminals and/or everyday murderers we're talking about, so obviously, they were sloppy in some areas. The ransom note is a prime example of such sloppiness, but it was necessary and done out of desperation.

 

[Tobiano8th]

i'm new here................. i'm open to any possibility that is at least moderately consistent with the given evidence.......... but to me personally, it begins and ends with my opinion that it is blindingly obvious who wrote that ransom note.

of course, to believe any specific theory is to believe something quite incredible. the big ones being that the ramseys showed some appalling bad judgement or are not caring people at all or someone broke in and wrote that note (and lots of layers of disbelief on both these issues)

 

[Tobiano8th]

someone raises a good point as to why the R's and PR in particular would write such a long ransom note. i would think even a fake ransom note would be very short.

but the one thing is that the R's wouldn't be rushed in writing such a note........ someone who broke in would be going nuts about being discovered and would completely rushed. you'd think they'd write the note beforehand and maybe that's what happened.

any of these theories takes a pretty big "leap of faith" and is full of holes.

 

[Safeguard]

they were that desperate. What was the alternative -- to run out to the store and buy a notepad and pen in the wee-hours of the morning? And risk being seen on store cameras and/or by neighbors leaving the house at that hour?

It would have been easy to get rid of the pad and pen. No one had to leave the house or buy anything.

So the Ramsey's are going to write that note, then casually toss the evidence that they did back in a drawer?

The ransom note makes no sense in any scenario. But putting pad and pen back where they find them fits idi better, particularly if the killer's motive was hated /revenge/envy or other...

There is a difference between being smart and being just smart enough (i.e. not stupid) to commit a crime. For the most part, they were smart; and they did get away with it -- but these aren't professional criminals and/or everyday murderers we're talking about, so obviously, they were sloppy in some areas. The ransom note is a prime example of such sloppiness, but it was necessary and done out of desperation.

They couldn't possibly believe that after they report a kidnapping, they will then be able to smuggle a body out of the house unnoticed.

The Ransome note is unexplainable is any of the theories. It certainly didn't benifit the R's.