Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #14

[Allusonz]

Have to agree Nova and WM. As soon as I saw the times of 9:00, 9:20, and 9:30 and the fact by his own admission that he was out of the cottage by 10:30pm, he was quite specific about times which he would not have to be. Add in the testimony regarding TOD and there is simply very little room to move considering all the variables that we know. I believe and the science more than backs it up that her death happened between 9:00 and 9:30pm otherwise her stomach contents would of started emptying into her duodeum

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, Like:

Some dude claimed AK was running at him with a knife in the streets and he threw Olives at her.

Some people claimed a black man knocked them down that night, but turned out not to be PL or RG.

He homeless man testified to seeing AK and Rs at 9:27. He was downloading on his computer at 9:26.

Someone swore they saw AK, RS, and Rg emerging from the cottage together. AK wearing a red jacket that she never owned, and RS had again, computer proof that he was not there at the time they said.

FR claimed the washer was warm, something that wouldn't have been possible by the time PP arrived and then she finally arrived. Plus, NO clothes associated with the murder were even in the washer.

They claimed that they couldn't find AK's clothes from the night before when they were on her bed the whole time.

They claimed they changed gloves and footies throughout the investigation of the house, but we've seen footage proving they didn't. We also saw that one picture I showed everyone of those dirty, dirty gloves tossed carelessly on the livingroom floor, where the footprints were marked.

They said RS called the police after PP arrived, but it was proved that he indeed called before.

They said it was a mushroom in AK's throat. She ate nothing with mushrooms, no mushrooms were in her stomach, either. It was apple from the dessert she'd eaten with her friends. That substance was never tested to prove that's what it was. But there's no evidence she made a mushroom snack in the house or ate more than the one "mushroom" allegedly lodged in her throat.

The list probably STILL goes on....

 

[dgfred]

Yes he did state that fred and btw grats on being able to link now

Why thanks. Not being able to has caused me 'problems' in the past just as it did here.

It went from:
There was no mop- yes there was
No there wasn't- yes there was
You can't prove it- yes I can
You can't prove it cause you didn't link it- I give site/column/page
Still you are wrong- I claim can't link pic (Nova and SMK help)
.......................- I link picture of mop
Oh, I see mop, but show AK holding it- :waitasec: :banghead:

Typical in a way as far as arguments in this thread go.

 

[wasnt_me]

Nova,

It is my strong opinion that the lawyer is questioning Ak about ALL the stains in the bathroom, not stains with her DNA or blood.

See Below:

GM: Listen, on the morning of Nov 2, you went to your house, and you saw the
traces of blood in the little bathroom.
AK: Yes.

GM: The traces of blood on the bathmat.

AK: Yes.

GM: When was the last time you had been in that bathroom?
AK: Me?

GM: Yes.

AK: I must have...well, before the 2nd, I must have gone in there at least once
when I came home on Nov 1st.

GM: Excuse me, but what time did you leave the house in via della Pergola on
Nov 1?

AK: Around...4 o'clock, maybe? I don't look at the clock. But I know it must
have been 4 or 5 o'clock when we left the house on Nov 1.

GM: And you were in the little bathroom before leaving the house?

AK: Yes.

GM: Now, the last time you were in the little bathroom, before leaving the
house, it might have been more or less around 4 o'clock?
AK: Around then, yes.

GM: All right. You knew that Filomena wasn't home?

AK: I knew that she had gone to a party that afternoon.

GM: A party. Fine. And Mezzetti?

AK: Laura, you know, I didn't know where she was. I knew she wasn't in the
house when I was there, but I didn't really know where she was.

GM: When you saw the bathroom for the last time, were there traces of blood in
it?

AK: No.

GM: All right. Now, let's get to the moment when Meredith's door was broken
down--

AK: Okay --

GM: We can go backwards later. Did you see Meredith's room?

AK: No.

GM: Did you get a glimpse?

AK: No.

Does he, or does he not appear to be asking about blood stains "IN GENERAL"??? He then moves onto another topic. So it appears that he's establishing that MK was not killed or dead or no fight or anything had occured, nothing out of the ordinary when Ak left the house.

If you get something else from that, let me know, but I am not sure why this is important at this current time.

 

[wasnt_me]

Why thanks. Not being able to has caused me 'problems' in the past just as it did here.

It went from:
There was no mop- yes there was
No there wasn't- yes there was
You can't prove it- yes I can
You can't prove it cause you didn't link it- I give site/column/page
Still you are wrong- I claim can't link pic (Nova and SMK help)
.......................- I link picture of mop
Oh, I see mop, but show AK holding it- :waitasec: :banghead:

Typical in a way as far as arguments in this thread go.

It's very funny that you do not include how it ended, which was not only with me agreeing with you, but also supplying you a better picture to prove your point, and further asking probing questions, which you didn't respond to about how in the world she lugged that bucket around.

I gave you all the credit in the world, but here, you seem to use it that incidence to demean all people who you debate with here. That's very sad dgfred, because I thought we'd turned a corner.

What more could I do than give you credit and find further evidence to support what you said that would make you not have this kind of attitude about us as debators? And when can we get that same fair treatment when we have valid points?

 

[dgfred]

Well you never apologized for acting that way in the first place, which was uncalled for IMO.
I did not reply to the bucket baiting question, because there was no evidence that I know of concerning that mop or the mop in the closet.
That's why I guess they are mentioned by both accused for the water 'spill'.
I have no problem with giving credit to valid points as long as I find them so.

 

[wasnt_me]

Anyway, I'm greatly puzzled by this mop bucket, so much so that I had to turn my laptop back on to post about it. I'd been hoping someone would discuss it with me and not dismiss my interest as baiting, but I guess that's why true discussions can't be had.

In any event, I got to thinking about this bucket, and I'm sorry, I don't believe that AK took a shower, got clean, and then wheeled this mop bucket a 10 minute walk to RS's house. I was very serous when I said that.

It seems so strange.

Then I got to thinking about the tow truck guy's story of seeing a dark car like RS's in the driveway. This was after the murder. No one talks about this. So I'm thinking, RS and AK probably drove to get that bucket and did go to the house after the murder had been committed. This might be the "inconsistency" that RS refers to in "ak's version of events."

Because I just can't see her wheeling that bucket all over perugia. And people do have a point when they say why leave standing water all night, because you don't have a mop or enough towels?

Maybe they went for the bucket and saw something. Maybe RG did see them outside.

Maybe I'm completely wrong and she wheeled that bucket to his house on foot. This is why I was sincerely asking Dgfred if there was any testimony or witness that had seen Ak lugging this bucket. I seriously want to know. I thought i'd made my seriousness about that clear. Apparently not, but y'all I'm serious.

My mind needs to be put to rest about this mop bucket.

 

[emyr]

Wow. You guys are friendly. Thanks for the welcome.

I'm coming into this very late, so this is what I've gathered and tell me what I'm getting wrong:

Amanda and Raf were supposed to go Gubbio on November 2nd for a trip.

at 8:35 pm Nov 1st Amanda texted goodnight to Lumamba knowing she did not have to go to work. And turned off her phone. At the time she is supposed to be watching Amelie with Raf, and there is a movie playing on his laptop.

At 8:43pm a person wearing light colored clothing exits a white car and heads towards the cottage. (Is the time stamp wrong? Is this actually 9 pm?)

At 9pm, Meredith arrives home wearing dark clothing (Did the CCTV not register her? Is there no one else seen on CCTV between the hours of 8am to noon the next day? One would think the CCTV would see Knox arriving at the cottage the next day. Also walking around with a mop.)

At 9:10 pm the movie ends.

Sometime between 9pm and midnight, Meredith is murdered (Is the time narrower than this?)

10:00 pm Mrs.Lana told not to use her toilet b/c there is a bomb. she calls the police who come to investigate. (Who made this phone call incidentally?)

10pm: Meredith's phone rings her bank

10:13 pm, Meredith's phone does something.

10:30pm: CCTV cameras pick up someone leaving the cottage? (I've seen this a few places... is this true? seems like it would have been in the trial if it was.)

12:10 am, Meredith's father tries to call. Her phone is now in the garden.

5:32am Raffaele plays music on his computer at his place.

12:08 pm: Amanda notifies Filomena that there has been a break in. She is at Raffaelle's house.

12:35 pm : Amanda and Raffaelle are at the cottage.

12:51 pm: Raf calls carabineri

12:54 pm: Raf calls emergency number again.

12:55-1pm: Postal police arrive (via time stamp on CCTV which was proven to be roughly 20 minutes off? Or is the time stamp correct?)

1:50 pm: Amanda calls US (I assume to convey to someone there what just happened)

 

[emyr]

wasnt me,

I also think the mop thing was weird. Also, when I read the Massei report, I thought it stated that Amanda used the bathmat to slide down the hallway into her room. But then I read that she used it as a shield to cover herself? Honestly, if she used the bathmat to slide down the hallway, I would find this so suspicious. Who does that?

 

[SMK]

If it is true that most people distrust juries, then the system would be overhauled. It hasn't been, so I think it's safe to assume that he majority of people trust the jury system.

Well, there has been trust in many things that should be overhauled and are not. Maybe there is nothing better to replace it with, but it doesn't mean it is flawless nor that it always works as it should.

 

[ChasingMoxie]

Why so much curiosity about whether people will change their minds if the verdict stands or is changed. Would you agree that they are guilty if the verdict remains the same?

So regardless of the verdict, your opinion would remain the same. Would it not be reasonable to assume that others, regardless of their current view, would also maintain their opinion regardless of the legal decision?

--snipped for clarity--

I may be one of those people that trusts jury decisions, but at least I'm in good company because nearly everyone (excluding some convict's family members) trusts jury decisions.

I can't tell at all what your opinion is with regard to whether a jury verdict is truth. It seems to me that these posts contradict one another. At the very least, they indicate an understanding that a jury is fallible, and constant restatement of their decision merely an over-relied upon crutch for when the argument gets sticky.

 

[Nova]

Is anyone taking Guede's time of 9:20/9:30 seriously ... cherry picking which of the liar's statement to believe and disbelieve?

One can discard the parts of RG's statement that are obviously self-serving (such as the intruder who kills MK while RG is in the bathroom).

But the times given are rather specific, yet lying about them does nothing to help RG. He puts himself at the scene at those times, so they aren't mentioned to support an alibi.

I assume the Skype call was held during the first week or two after the murder, when information about the crime was still sketchy. Yet somehow RG manages to put the crime at nearly the earliest possible time relative to MK's arrived at the cottage.

You, of course, will dismiss out of hand anything that doesn't support your hatred of Amanda Knox. That's a given.

 

[dgfred]

Dang, the snarkiness is rampant around here lately... wonder why?

 

[Nova]

...If you get something else from that, let me know, but I am not sure why this is important at this current time.

Yes, he seems to be asking AK about blood stains in general, not just the couple of drops she shed herself. I think you are right that he is merely establishing that MK hadn't been murdered when AK left the house on the afternoon of Nov. 1.

I don't know why this matters. I've forgotten.

My point was merely that since there is no indication that AK was looking for blood drops, she can only testify that she doesn't remember seeing any. That isn't the same thing as saying with certainty that none existed.

I was objecting to twisting AK's testimony into something she could not have known.

 

[Nova]

If it is true that most people distrust juries, then the system would be overhauled. It hasn't been, so I think it's safe to assume that he majority of people trust the jury system.

Things don't magically happen just because "most people" wish them.

But even assuming that most people trust the jury system, that doesn't tell us whether their trust is justified or merely the most comforting thing to believe.

I shouldn't have to tell you that "most people" believe in other things for which there is no proof.

 

[Nova]

Anyway, I'm greatly puzzled by this mop bucket, so much so that I had to turn my laptop back on to post about it. I'd been hoping someone would discuss it with me and not dismiss my interest as baiting, but I guess that's why true discussions can't be had.

In any event, I got to thinking about this bucket, and I'm sorry, I don't believe that AK took a shower, got clean, and then wheeled this mop bucket a 10 minute walk to RS's house. I was very serous when I said that.

It seems so strange.

Then I got to thinking about the tow truck guy's story of seeing a dark car like RS's in the driveway. This was after the murder. No one talks about this. So I'm thinking, RS and AK probably drove to get that bucket and did go to the house after the murder had been committed. This might be the "inconsistency" that RS refers to in "ak's version of events."

Because I just can't see her wheeling that bucket all over perugia. And people do have a point when they say why leave standing water all night, because you don't have a mop or enough towels?

Maybe they went for the bucket and saw something. Maybe RG did see them outside.

Maybe I'm completely wrong and she wheeled that bucket to his house on foot. This is why I was sincerely asking Dgfred if there was any testimony or witness that had seen Ak lugging this bucket. I seriously want to know. I thought i'd made my seriousness about that clear. Apparently not, but y'all I'm serious.

My mind needs to be put to rest about this mop bucket.

It's just a plastic bucket.

Full of water, it might be too heavy to carry and AK would probably wheel it.

But empty, it might be carried very easily, even for 10 minutes.

The "mop" in question is so short, it's practically just a "brush." Also easily carried.

I suppose it's possible that AK and RS drove over to get the mop and bucket after dinner on the night of the murder. I suppose it's possible they both lied because they were afraid to put themselves anywhere near the scene of the crime.

But I think it's odd that RS was sober enough to drive, but so stoned he and AK decided to leave a burglary unreported for more than 12 hours.

 

[Nova]

Dang, the snarkiness is rampant around here lately... wonder why?

Gee, I don't know. Couldn't be frustration with the word games that some people play, could it?

 

[dgfred]

Gee, I don't know. Couldn't be frustration with the word games that some people play, could it?

Could be frustration... taking the place of an argument with substance and validity.

Otto has expressed no 'hatred' of AK as far as I have seen... just another unfounded remark tossed in. The snarkiness seems to be one-way here lately. Is this the 'Fischer Plan' in action?

 

[dgfred]

So will RG be questioned only about what the inmates claimed he said?

Will there be any testimony regarding AK and RS involvement in the murder?

Why haven't the defense had the knife and keys 'dug up' from where the inmate said they were hidden?

How will AK act in court, will she confront RG or play the 'victim'?

 

[SMK]

Could be frustration... taking the place of an argument with substance and validity.

Otto has expressed no 'hatred' of AK as far as I have seen... just another unfounded remark tossed in. The snarkiness seems to be one-way here lately. Is this the 'Fischer Plan' in action?

You must be joking: Collusion with Bruce Fisher? (P.S.: :razz: ) (and snarkiness would surely not advance the innocence case in any event. )