Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

[Nova]

Hey Allusonz! I've been missing your late night insight.

I have, too!

 

[miley]

That's bull. Nothing is presented (from you or anyone else) as FACT regarding a 'plea-deal'... as there is no such thing. Settled.

I just said in my last post, I never presented it as fact (but BN did in her book)

That is not the debate, dgfred. The issue is over Rudy's sentence. You say it was reduced to 16 because of the fast track.

I disagree.

I say it was reduced to 16 because of extenuating circumstances and have provided several sources to back it up.

 

[miley]

No, it doesn't. Esp since it's not even her footprint. Surprised they were screaming that her DNA was on the rug.

Anyways, explain to me about this riding the rug thing that you do.

(I'm not sure how to explain this) .. usually, after a shower, I dry off right then ... if for some reason I don't have a clean towel handy - rather then running through the house slipping or leaving step puddles everywhere, I'll grab a towel from the dirty clothes, throw it on the floor, step on (usually) with both feet and sort of scoot along until I make my way to the clean towels.

same thing if say after I mop the floor.. if water is standing and I don't feel like mopping all over again, I'll grab a dirty towel, throw it down and use one foot to wipe and the other to walk around.. or using both feet, scooting around until the floor is dry.

writing this, it does sound incredibly dumb - it must not be too uncommon... grocery stores (here locally) just started selling something called towel socks, or mops socks for this very purpose.

I'm not sure if this is exactly what Amanda is talking about, it's the impression I've always had.

 

[miley]

Oh, no you don't! I know a "slippery slope" when I see one.

If I try on a bra, then you'll want me to try on panty hose and before I know it you'll have me "tucking"! (I don't even want to know how that is accomplished.)

I can't even figure out how women button their blouses, what with the buttons being on the wrong side and all. I'm not going near the rest of the gear!

OMG! LOL, I was just going to say, guys have it made... but I've now changed my mind!

 

[Malkmus]

(I'm not sure how to explain this) .. usually, after a shower, I dry off right then ... if for some reason I don't have a clean towel handy - rather then running through the house slipping or leaving step puddles everywhere, I'll grab a towel from the dirty clothes, throw it on the floor, step on (usually) with both feet and sort of scoot along until I make my way to the clean towels.

same thing if say after I mop the floor.. if water is standing and I don't feel like mopping all over again, I'll grab a dirty towel, throw it down and use one foot to wipe and the other to walk around.. or using both feet, scooting around until the floor is dry.

writing this, it does sound incredibly dumb - it must not be too uncommon... grocery stores (here locally) just started selling something called towel socks, or mops socks for this very purpose.

I'm not sure if this is exactly what Amanda is talking about, it's the impression I've always had.

I related to this way back in an old post as well... I have wood floors and have been in that situation where I had no towel, and walking from shower to bedroom soaking wet leaves a ton of slippery puddles behind me that I then have to soak up with paper towels. What's more ridiculous - sopping up puddles of bathwater with paper towels, or preventing such a mess by shuffling a bathmat under you a few feet.
As I've pointed out before. The "bathmat shuffle" doesn't "explain" any of the evidence. There were no streak marks found in the Luminol. There was no blood on the underside of the mat, so she wasn't trying to explain how she accidentally wiped up any blood. No one on the pro-guilt side has had any explanation for how it was an excuser for anything other than that they have a hunch that it means something suspicious.

 

[Malkmus]

Frankly, I think if AK had any reason to believe RS was involved in the murder, she would have said so by now. It isn't that hard for a female to lay the blame for a sex crime on the men involved. Why would AK continue to cover for them?

Since some are so willing to compare AK to C. Anthony, it's interesting to note that CA's defense was to fabricate a completely fictional scenario pinning her own father for the death of her daughter. Had AK really been there that night, as well as with the other two, she could have easily pinned the blame on them, sticking to the scenario from her statement on the 5th where she claims to have been in the other room the entire time and that she had no part of it. She could completely throw RS under the bus if she so chose, as CA did her own father. It's interesting to me that so many are willing to see that the "bathmat shuffle" is telling and a guilty sign, but something like not pinning the blame on RS isn't telling at all, when to me it speaks at much higher volume.

 

[wasnt_me]

wasnt_me, here is something you posted not long ago (quoting from RG's appeal translation):

wasnt_me:
on the single bed, covered by the bottom sheet, two irregularly-formed bloodstains; also on the bed, amongst other items – a purse, two sponge socks, a bloodstained book - an ivory-coloured terry cloth towel heavily smeared with blood. page 4

I was thinking about this. It came from RG's MOT report, I think. But that bed does not look like it had the fitting sheet on it, per the photos.

 

[Malkmus]

I noticed in the pictures, MK's purse looked completely empty. I find that VERY odd. was her whole wallet stolen? her lipstick, etc?

additionally, is this a bank receipt so carelessly tossed on top of MK's body? I am so disgusted by it, because it's almost like he threw money on top of her.

I'm just wondering what she carried around in her purse, why it was empty like that and where the rest of the contents went. Into RG's backpack? Maybe he just turned it over and dumped everything into his bag, and that's how he wound up with the keys, too.

Even sadder, her class schedule's there, too. That class schedule represents hope and a future. The bank receipt represents a senseless death that ended it all over money and sex.

eta: seeing the bank receipt also makes me think of how logical it was that the bank got a call, too...

Unless of course I'm completely wrong and it is not a bank receipt.

Thank you for these pictures, wm. I hadn't seen them before. The receipt appears to be for the movie theatre in Perugia. I looked up the website from it: http://www.cinegatti.it/home.asp

Again, more evidence that RG was last in the room. The receipt and list thrown on the comforter most likely came from her purse, which has RG's DNA on the zipper. He covered her with the duvet, then rifled through her purse, grabbing the keys, cash, and cards, dumping what wasn't of value - the receipt/list. I find this rather significant, others may not, JMO.

 

[dgfred]

Point of fact. When the inmates testified one had to keep his identity concealed cough due to a deal. Sorry do not believe anyone can state that deals are not made in Italy after that episode and it was covered world wide

Once again that has NOTHING to do with RG getting a plea-deal. His sentence length was as a result of taking the 'fast track' version only.

 

[dgfred]

I just said in my last post, I never presented it as fact (but BN did in her book)

That is not the debate, dgfred. The issue is over Rudy's sentence. You say it was reduced to 16 because of the fast track.

I disagree.

I say it was reduced to 16 because of extenuating circumstances and have provided several sources to back it up.

Could you link where BN wrote his sentence was a result of a 'plea-deal'?

Could you list your 'extenuating circumstances' then where it applies to RG's sentence... instead of because he chose the fast track version?

 

[dgfred]

Since some are so willing to compare AK to C. Anthony, it's interesting to note that CA's defense was to fabricate a completely fictional scenario pinning her own father for the death of her daughter. Had AK really been there that night, as well as with the other two, she could have easily pinned the blame on them, sticking to the scenario from her statement on the 5th where she claims to have been in the other room the entire time and that she had no part of it. She could completely throw RS under the bus if she so chose, as CA did her own father. It's interesting to me that so many are willing to see that the "bathmat shuffle" is telling and a guilty sign, but something like not pinning the blame on RS isn't telling at all, when to me it speaks at much higher volume.

What good would 'pinning' the blame on RS... or RG for that matter do if they could turn around and 'pin it' on her? I don't see how you are really comparing the bathmat boogie to not blaming one of the others that were accused of being there with her. Maybe not blaming each other was a better strategic move.

 

[Malkmus]

Could you link where BN wrote his sentence was a result of a 'plea-deal'?

Could you list your 'extenuating circumstances' then where it applies to RG's sentence... instead of because he chose the fast track version?

http://books.google.com/books?id=-l...&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is a link to page 118 of Angel face, where BN alleges Rudy's sentence was reduced for "helping the prosecution strengthen their case against the other two". I wouldn't say it's an alleged "plea-bargain" as much as it's an alleged "back-door deal", in other words.

You're correct on the fast-track reduction, but that doesn't account for the other reduction of 6 years which has contradictory citations, some claiming it's because of his lack of a criminal record and some because he showed remorse for the murder. I suppose if there is a motivations report for RG's sentencing that would clear up that discrepancy.

 

[dgfred]

I just said in my last post, I never presented it as fact (but BN did in her book)

That is not the debate, dgfred. The issue is over Rudy's sentence. You say it was reduced to 16 because of the fast track.

I disagree.

I say it was reduced to 16 because of extenuating circumstances and have provided several sources to back it up.

And again,
You are 'saying' you think it was reduced because of extenuating circumstances/plea-deal just as you think BN states it as fact (which I have not seen).

Your only sourses so far (even hinting at this) are mentioning BN writing it and quoting Frank's blog discussing the abuse/30 years stuff with AK and Patrick. Not exactly 'sources to back it up' IMO.

It is a debate, but not one made in good faith as it looks so far.

 

[Malkmus]

What good would 'pinning' the blame on RS... or RG for that matter do if they could turn around and 'pin it' on her? I don't see how you are really comparing the bathmat boogie to not blaming one of the others that were accused of being there with her. Maybe not blaming each other was a better strategic move.

I think admitting to being at the scene, and blaming the two men there of being responsible of trying to rape the victim carries more weight in the eyes of the jury than the two men blaming her for a rape gone wrong. She also now has a prosecutor who isn't convinced she was even in the room, and her prior statement that she wasn't in the room while it happened. This all of course, if you believe all three were there that night.

The bathmat story is an example to me of failed logic, it explains nothing but is often referred to as an example of AK trying to explain something. I think if we're to believe AK is really as selfish, lying and guilty of this crime as she is described that she would blame the two men in this alleged rape gone wrong in a heartbeat and have a pretty good shot at convincing a jury of such.

 

[dgfred]

http://books.google.com/books?id=-l...&resnum=1&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Here is a link to page 118 of Angel face, where BN alleges Rudy's sentence was reduced for "helping the prosecution strengthen their case against the other two". I wouldn't say it's an alleged "plea-bargain" as much as it's an alleged "back-door deal", in other words.

You're correct on the fast-track reduction, but that doesn't account for the other reduction of 6 years which has contradictory citations, some claiming it's because of his lack of a criminal record and some because he showed remorse for the murder. I suppose if there is a motivations report for RG's sentencing that would clear up that discrepancy.

Thanks for clearing that up. But even the six years is shown due to mitigating factors such as record, age, and 'remorse' whether you agree or not with the judgement. So that doesn't really make it a 'back-door deal' either IMO. Although I didn't agree with those reductions... AK and RS got them too.

What BN writes in the book isn't a 'fact' either, but what she 'alleges'.

 

[dgfred]

I think admitting to being at the scene, and blaming the two men there of being responsible of trying to rape the victim carries more weight in the eyes of the jury than the two men blaming her for a rape gone wrong. She also now has a prosecutor who isn't convinced she was even in the room, and her prior statement that she wasn't in the room while it happened. This all of course, if you believe all three were there that night.

The bathmat story is an example to me of failed logic, it explains nothing but is often referred to as an example of AK trying to explain something. I think if we're to believe AK is really as selfish, lying and guilty of this crime as she is described that she would blame the two men in this alleged rape gone wrong in a heartbeat and have a pretty good shot at convincing a jury of such.

Well, those are your opinions. Whether she was 'in the room' or not... she is just as guilty of murder for letting them in, not stopping them, or not reporting them in the eyes of the law. So blaming the others does not help.

Comparing the bathmat boogie story to not blaming the others with regards to 'trying to explain something' is like apples to oranges IMO.

I don't see your 'good shot at convincing a jury'... but that was to be expected.

 

[Malkmus]

Well, those are your opinions. Whether she was 'in the room' or not... she is just as guilty of murder for letting them in, not stopping them, or not reporting them in the eyes of the law. So blaming the others does not help.

Comparing the bathmat boogie story to not blaming the others with regards to 'trying to explain something' is like apples to oranges IMO.

I don't see your 'good shot at convincing a jury'... but that was to be expected.

Of course it's just my opinion. I firmly believe that AK would have stood a much better chance at admitting she was there but that she was a complete victim of two men she barely knew trying to rape her roommate and that she covered for them until their arrest out of fear. I think there's a good chance that would have gotten her off. Her actions of doing the opposite, to me, speaks more about her guilt or innocence than something like the "bathmat boogie".

 

[dgfred]

Her 'actions' and the evidence speaks to me in regards to her guilt too :innocent: ... but I don't try to compare things she did 'do' to things she 'didn't' do.

The 'chance' that blaming the other two would 'get her off' doesn't concern me if she is guilty of being involved.
It is more of a what-if kind of thing to think about.

 

[dgfred]

There couldn't be a 'plea deal' anyway if the person claims they didn't commit
the crime. In this case- murder.

Isn't a plea deal actually pleading to a 'lessor charge' for a reduction in sentence?

 

[SMK]

Her 'actions' and the evidence speaks to me in regards to her guilt too :innocent: ... but I don't try to compare things she did 'do' to things she 'didn't' do.

The 'chance' that blaming the other two would 'get her off' doesn't concern me if she is guilty of being involved.
It is more of a what-if kind of thing to think about.

I think what was implied, is that HAD she actually been involved in the murder, it is likely that she would have thrown Guede and Sollecito under the bus as a matter of course. That she did not makes her insistence that she had no part in it ring the more true.