Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

[otto]

Thanks! Yes, it is very suspicious : Her cottage is broken into via a window, and her mother's gold watch taken. Then they find Rudy with a woman's gold watch while he is under suspicious activity of break and entry, with stolen goods in his backback, yet again. And yet, no arrest. But supposedly the idea that Rudy was a drug informant and hence had free pass from Perugia police is nothing but an "internet rumor". Yeah, right. :maddening:

Could you please provide a link to a media article stating that Guede was a drug informant.

 

[otto]

Well, I am of a certain opinion, for certain. What can I say? An opinion I am basing on certain facts, just as you are, conviction or no. Convictions may be faulty, and over turned. A petty thief (Rudy was known to brandish a knife) can turn murderer if things go wrong. Probably best not to break and enter in the first place.

Sollecito had a knife collection and didn't go anywhere, not even the police station, without a flick knife of some sort.

 

[otto]

Being a burglar (a different thing entirely from being a petty thief) doesn't make one a murderer, but does make it more likely that one will become a murderer, as burglary-turned-murder is not a rare occurrence. Murder out of nowhere because of the influence of pot and Japanese comic books, however...

If AK & RS are innocent, then they are deserving of pity. Should people who believe in that innocence really censor their expressions of pity because you personally believe otherwise? It doesn't reduce our sadness over Meridith's cruel fate, contrary to what you seem to be implying here.

They are convicted of murder. Saying that they deserve pity is like saying every murderer like Scott Peterson deserves pity when his case is being appealed. That simply doesn't happen. The assumption is that the courts were correct during the appeal.

 

[otto]

It is of course very true that "Meredith is the victim here" can be refuted by saying that if wrongfully convicted - and much points to this, for many intelligent and reflective people - AK and RS are no less victims. It is not either/or. One can feel extremely sorry for what Guede did to MK and also feel enraged at what he did to AK and RS.

Meredith is the victim. The convicted murderers are not the victims. Until such time that they are completely exonerated, Knox, Guede and Sollecito are not the victims.

 

[otto]

Uh huh. Show me where it was found that the 2 watches were not related, please.

Is this some kind of new evidence related to the murder of Meredith Kercher that has never been mentioned by the courts?

 

[otto]

Do you have a link to the transcripts for Lumamba, I'll look through them? Again, I don't remember anything about being beaten. I vaguely remember an article quoting him when he was released, complaining about being put in isolation, frightened by threatening and aggressive questioning, and the fact that his bar was still shut down.

I disagree with your "furthermore" statement about Frank's complaints being related to jostling cameras near the victim's family. It seems like his complaint relates to being beaten, and threatened as I quoted above. Whether he was able to introduce into evidence the hospital records and hospital eyewitnesses is unknown.

What appears to be a fact is that after finding that Lumamba had an air-tight alibi, the police continued to shut his business down for a period of 3 months, and offered him no compensation in relation to that. Which, by itself, is egregious. If you read through the rest of the Citizen's to Protect Journalists article, they itemize numerous complaints about aggressive and threatening tactics committed by law enforcement there.

I'm not particularly interested in Dougie Preston and his problems after interfering with a serial murder investigation in Italy. It's shameful that he is piggy backing on the murder of Meredith Kercher to further his cause.

 

[otto]

But a drugged up, going to-the disco hours later, proven to be a guy that fell asleep on the toilet with a crap in it, Rudy was the person who was MORE rational? He was the one to choose the more rational way to break in, but Amanda was not?

Perhaps he is the murderer who is not rational and made a mistake about the best way to break in because he was not operating on all cylinders.

Also, reading what all of you have posted about the other incidents, it sounds like Rudy was stealing food. I always thought the orange juice thing was a casual situation, but if he was truly cut off from his family, how was he eating?

Guede didn't break in. He walked in through the front door, just like Knox.

 

[otto]

Are you arguing that they were or were not drugged and/or that their memories were or were not wiped?

It seems to me that those who argue that they are guilty of murder seem to argue that their memories were not in fact wiped and that was in fact a lie on their part. I would imagine if they were guilty that the memory thing would be a lie. In which case it doesn't factor into this scenario. Now the drugs, if it was indeed just marijuana, then I really don't see how they would commit a violent act whilst stoned. Anyone who has experience of marijuana should be able to back me up here, although I am aware this is an assumption rather than evidence.

If it was something stronger, and more likely to make the user violent, then I don't see why they would be seemingly rational enough to do a clean-up in the way that people are suggesting they did, and yet NOT be able to rationalise how best to stage a break in. Also it is worth noting that if trying to stage a break in in a state of mental unclarity, I would still imagine the easiest option would be taken - ie opening the door to the balcony, walking out and hurling a rock at the door.

I do think that even if they wouldn't have considered the best way to make the break in look real, they probably would have considered the easiest way to complete the task.

I'm not "arguing" anything. According to Knox and Sollecito, they were all drugged up on the night of the murder and unable to recall the events of the evening even the next day ... or they lied about their activities. All we know is that they have not been forthcoming or honest about their activities on the night of the murder. They have no alibi, and the stories they told have been proven untrue.

The problem with the staged break in is not only the unlikely point of entry, but ransacking the room prior to breaking the window. Someone wasn't thinking clearly.

 

[SMK]

Could you please provide a link to a media article stating that Guede was a drug informant.

No, I will not. Could you please provide a link saying that inference is not part of logical thinking?

 

[SMK]

I'm not particularly interested in Dougie Preston and his problems after interfering with a serial murder investigation in Italy. It's shameful that he is piggy backing on the murder of Meredith Kercher to further his cause.

Dougie??:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

Meredith is the victim. The convicted murderers are not the victims. Until such time that they are completely exonerated, Knox, Guede and Sollecito are not the victims.

If they were wrongfully convicted they are victims. Period.

 

[SMK]

Guede didn't break in. He walked in through the front door, just like Knox.

Where is the proof of this? Oh, I know, Massei has proof, absolute proof. He was not just speculating.....

 

[SMK]

Is this some kind of new evidence related to the murder of Meredith Kercher that has never been mentioned by the courts?

Yes. It is.

 

[SMK]

They are convicted of murder. Saying that they deserve pity is like saying every murderer like Scott Peterson deserves pity when his case is being appealed. That simply doesn't happen. The assumption is that the courts were correct during the appeal.

Obviously, not to many of us. I would pity Scott Peterson on appeal ONLY IF I came to believe in his innocence. Remember, those of us who believe Knox and Sollecito to be innocent are decent people: If we believed they killed MK, our compassion would vanish. Or do you think it would be even stronger???

 

[otto]

No, I will not. Could you please provide a link saying that inference is not part of logical thinking?

So other than blogger Dempsey and others that repeat the rumor, there is no link to Guede being a police informant?

When you say inference, are you referring to a watch that has never been discussed in relation to the police investigation and trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher?

 

[otto]

If they were wrongfully convicted they are victims. Period.

Mindboggling ... to truly believe that all murderers appealing their convictions are wrongfully convicted ... so many victims!

 

[SMK]

So other than blogger Dempsey and others that repeat the rumor, there is no link to Guede being a police informant?

When you say inference, are you referring to a watch that has never been discussed in relation to the police investigation and trial for the murder of Meredith Kercher?

I could turn this type of talk back on you and others, for all the details you "know" about violent Amanda, but I am too tired and bored to do so.

 

[otto]

Where is the proof of this? Oh, I know, Massei has proof, absolute proof. He was not just speculating.....

He didn't enter through the obvious kitchen window, and the broken window was a staged break in. That only leaves walking in through the front door.

 

[SMK]

Mindboggling ... to truly believe that all murderers appealing their convictions are wrongfully convicted ... so many victims!

I did NOT, I repeat, I did not say ALL convicted murderers on appeal were victims. I said I believe little sweet Mandy and cute Raff-Raff are. :maddening:

 

[otto]

Yes. It is.

The investigation was closed ages ago. New evidence cannot be introduced after the investigation is closed in order to protect the rights of the prisoners. That is, the prosecution cannot spring new evidence on someone during and after a trial. Are you suggesting that Guede was carrying items stolen from the cottage on him when he was arrested, but that evidence was ignored?