Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[wasnt_me]

How can a witness confusing the day and time NOT be important? Particularly when she doesn't appear to live in a building where street sounds carry.

It's strange to me that it's okay for the bum and Nara to screw up their days, but when RS recounts the details of Halloween night to them as if it were Nov 1st, he's the liar. When RS calls the police 3 minutes before the postal police arrive, RS is still the liar. When they can't remember when precisely they ate dinner, RS and AK are the liars. But Nara can say she heard people gossiping about the murder and saw a headline about while at the same time, AK was doing the "bathmat buggie." the bum Curalato(?) doesn't hear this scream and he lives outside but Nara heard it? I just don't think that's believable.

 

[wasnt_me]

Indeed not. And all of the proposed theories involve some sort of social engagement that escalated into violence. Yet the broken-down car and tow truck people saw no lights in the cottage.

So the party-that-got-out-of-hand couldn't have started until after the tow truck left. And now we're getting too close to the time when MK's phone pinged at the disposal site.

Whether one uses computer records, cell phone records, stomach contents or eyewitness testimony, there simply wasn't time for AK and RS to have conspired with RG to commit murder.

True.

Let's say the scream is heard at 1130pm. When did the party start because n one saw lights in the cottage while the car was broken down. So they were partying in the dark? (satanic ritual?)

Then, I still contend that it makes zero sense for a scream to be heard and then running 2 minutes later. Just because MK screamed, doesn't mean her life was over or her fight was over. Doesn't even mean she'd been stabbed yet.

Is 2 minutes enough time to fatally stab her, leave her and run out the house? I'll go and ahead and grant a scenario that they return later for this instance, but still 2 minutes from the scream when there's no way to tell why MK's screaming? Is she screaming because she saw the knife? Is she screaming because she's about to be stabbed in the neck with it? What escalation to this is happening in the darkened house (according to the tow truck guy)?

Most importantly, when was there time for RG's sexual assault? Because if he did it at knife point, I'm seriously thinking MK would have screamed already upon being grabbed, threatened and forced to have some sort of sexual encounter. I doubt she went through ALL that and didn't scream.

So for Nara's scenario to work, RG ALSO had to return to the cottage to "fake" a sexual assault. So if everyone's fleeing and running in different directions as Nara claims, how do they decide to return later to concoct all this? None of them have phones.

Seriously. Who thinks it's feasible that MK ONLY screamed for her life AFTER already being tackled and sexually assaulted?

Please help me see what i'm missing, because like I said, if they faked it later, that means RG had to return with AK and RS to do all the faking, including going inside MK's vagina once she was already dead for a while. That's very sick, but does anyone think that happened?

 

[wasnt_me]

Just thinking about this scenario more. From the 1130pm scream, the clock is ticking, right? The three of them have 2-5 minutes while Nara's just standing there for 2-5 minutes listening by said window.

Imagine this. She heard and scream and she listens for 2-5 minutes. If you have two to 5 minutes, go stand by your window, listening, and then realize how long of a time frame that is.

Now, think about how the three of them in concert with each other now have to run out of the house, get over the gate, cross the road, and get to those metal stairs in 2-5 minutes without anyone else seeing them run and do that. Also imagine at that the same time, the other "ear witness" has to hear aruging first and then a scream.

Remember Nara does not hear arguing. The bumb at the basketball court sees NO ONE running. I think he said AK and RS were intently talking and looking toward the cottage, but that's not arguing. And he can't hear them arguing, so how does the other lady inside her house hear it? and what are they arguing about? How close is that other lady's window from where the bumb claims to see AK and RS talking? And again, why dos the bum not see AK and RS running, if Nara heard running?

I think the stairs that Nara heard them on isn't even near the basketball courts, but I'd need to see the pictures again to prove it. So anyone who wants to help me PROVE that all the ear witnesses are right, let's get going. And if we cannot prove they are right, well, then.....we all know what that means.

So anyone who believes in innocence, please take the challenge with me to prove that the ear witnesses are all correct according to the evidence.

 

[wasnt_me]

No, it is not imagined. She is just mixing up events. Same as Curatolo who mixes up events from the evening before. So if you reason like that it is very relevant to remember when you drink your coffee since that is how you deduct that these witnesses are making things up which is completely false.

But people who disblieve RS say that he is guilty because he cannot remember when he had dinner that same night. If Nara indeed heard the blood curtling scream of a lifetime, why don't we expect her to know exactly when it was, esp since the next morning, she heard about a murder in the papers? Why don't we expect her to come forward immediately to say she heard such an awful cry in the night?

Why is it okay that she mixed up her days, but two people who knew the victim are so distraught over the murder and the constant police attention that they get confused about events? Why are they not afforded the same benefit of the doubt?

As for the twin towers, I remember percisely what time it was when I learned that they were hit. It was 1030am. My brother called me while I was at work to talk about my company's website. As we were talking, he said "What? A plane crashed into the world trade center?" I thought he meant the center in downtown atlanta and I asked him what he was talking about. He wasn't listening to me because he was listening to the radio and repeating what they were saying. We got off the phone and the ladies in my office started coming out, talking about this event.

So yes, all these years later, though I was nowhere near New York, I remember exactly when I first heard about it. I know it happened earlier than when I first heard about it, but still that's what happened when I first heard.

Now, my brother attempted suicide recently and I remember exactly what I was doing and I remember exactly what happened the morning I learned of it and I remember in the same detail as I remember the twin towers. HOWEVER, if you were to ask me what i was doing the night before I heard by brother tried to kill himself and when I ate dinner, etc, I could NOT tell you specifically, except I was probably watching my soaps on the internet and researching this very case. I could not tell you what time I ate, showered, took the dogs outside, watched which show, or what time I went to bed.

That's why I can understand that Ak and RS do not know. If my brother had died and if they suspected me somehow, I'd be screwed for not knowing what I'd done the night before and for only have a computer to alibi me.

 

[wasnt_me]

Not sure if you realize, but we're more in agreement that you might think.

I rarely disagree with points you make, if at all, but I gotta disagree with this one.

 

[wasnt_me]

Interesting excerpt from a PMF post; one of the few not calling the "Knox Groupies" a bunch of deluded circus nuts and imposters. I agree with the premise but not the conclusion:
http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=402&start=2000

Well, it's true and true on both sides of the argument. If this could happen on both sides of the argument, then some simblance of truth can finally be found.

 

[wasnt_me]

While I was on another board, this photo came to my attention:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/luminol/146.jpg

I didn't make the picture come up in the post because the picture is huge. But open it in another window and make the following observations with me:

1. See luminal glowing on the rulers.
2. See Luminal glowing on the tech's booties.
3. See the smears of luminol on the floor between where the tech is standing.
4. Zoom in on the print and go toward the "L" shaped ruler. On the left in the space between the rulers, note the heavy gobs of blue dilluted liquid. It's not even dry yet.

same picture or at least same area:

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/luminol/147.jpg

1. Note how the ruler is glowing in the dark. Zoom in if you need to.
2. Note that if you zoom in, to the left of the ruler, the floor crack is entirely filled with luminol.

Now, if we believe these foot prints are in blood, then we must ALSO believe that the ruler was dipped in blood, do we not?

We must also believe that the tech's booties are dipped in blood.

Now, now, wait a minute. Wait a minute, for anyone who might say that the tech's might have gotten blood on the bottom of their booties or their gloves TRANSFERRED blood onto the ruler, then that opens up the door for "contamination of the evidence."

So either this test was performed incorrectly and luminol was over applied, giving them false positives, getting luminol WITHOUT BLOOD to glow on the ruler and the booties, or they contaminated the evidence by dragging blood into the hallway and not changing gloves before touching things.

Either way, shoddy, shoddy, shoddy.

Just studying these two pictures, I contend that there was no clean up in the hallway, no blood reaction in this luminol, and the footprints were there as a consquence of everyday walking, and from the size of them, the prints may belong to MK herself.

To believe that there's blood in these prints means to believe there is blood on the tech's booties and there is blood all over that ruler.

Pictures speak a thousand words, but if the words are somehow misleading, I'd appreciate anyone who believes it's blood to just explain how the tech got that much blood spatter on his booties and how he managed to smear all that invisible blood between where he's standing.

 

[wasnt_me]

Oh, and notice one other thing. In picture 147, do you see rings on the toe print to the right of the ruler? Those "rings" look like rings from RG's shoes. Or am I imagining things?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/luminol/147.jpg

 

[SMK]

It's strange to me that it's okay for the bum and Nara to screw up their days, but when RS recounts the details of Halloween night to them as if it were Nov 1st, he's the liar. When RS calls the police 3 minutes before the postal police arrive, RS is still the liar. When they can't remember when precisely they ate dinner, RS and AK are the liars. But Nara can say she heard people gossiping about the murder and saw a headline about while at the same time, AK was doing the "bathmat buggie." the bum Curalato(?) doesn't hear this scream and he lives outside but Nara heard it? I just don't think that's believable.

But people who disblieve RS say that he is guilty because he cannot remember when he had dinner that same night. If Nara indeed heard the blood curtling scream of a lifetime, why don't we expect her to know exactly when it was, esp since the next morning, she heard about a murder in the papers? Why don't we expect her to come forward immediately to say she heard such an awful cry in the night?

Why is it okay that she mixed up her days, but two people who knew the victim are so distraught over the murder and the constant police attention that they get confused about events? Why are they not afforded the same benefit of the doubt?

As for the twin towers, I remember percisely what time it was when I learned that they were hit. It was 1030am. My brother called me while I was at work to talk about my company's website. As we were talking, he said "What? A plane crashed into the world trade center?" I thought he meant the center in downtown atlanta and I asked him what he was talking about. He wasn't listening to me because he was listening to the radio and repeating what they were saying. We got off the phone and the ladies in my office started coming out, talking about this event.

So yes, all these years later, though I was nowhere near New York, I remember exactly when I first heard about it. I know it happened earlier than when I first heard about it, but still that's what happened when I first heard.

Now, my brother attempted suicide recently and I remember exactly what I was doing and I remember exactly what happened the morning I learned of it and I remember in the same detail as I remember the twin towers. HOWEVER, if you were to ask me what i was doing the night before I heard by brother tried to kill himself and when I ate dinner, etc, I could NOT tell you specifically, except I was probably watching my soaps on the internet and researching this very case. I could not tell you what time I ate, showered, took the dogs outside, watched which show, or what time I went to bed.

That's why I can understand that Ak and RS do not know. If my brother had died and if they suspected me somehow, I'd be screwed for not knowing what I'd done the night before and for only have a computer to alibi me.

Yes, I agree with this. I hope your brother is doing better now...

 

[SMK]

Well, it's true and true on both sides of the argument. If this could happen on both sides of the argument, then some simblance of truth can finally be found.

How is their conclusion - that there is plenty of evidence leftover, after rejecting the knife and clasp as per the independent experts with which to convict AK and RS - true?:waitasec:

 

[SMK]

True.

Let's say the scream is heard at 1130pm. When did the party start because n one saw lights in the cottage while the car was broken down. So they were partying in the dark? (satanic ritual?)

Then, I still contend that it makes zero sense for a scream to be heard and then running 2 minutes later. Just because MK screamed, doesn't mean her life was over or her fight was over. Doesn't even mean she'd been stabbed yet.

Is 2 minutes enough time to fatally stab her, leave her and run out the house? I'll go and ahead and grant a scenario that they return later for this instance, but still 2 minutes from the scream when there's no way to tell why MK's screaming? Is she screaming because she saw the knife? Is she screaming because she's about to be stabbed in the neck with it? What escalation to this is happening in the darkened house (according to the tow truck guy)?

Most importantly, when was there time for RG's sexual assault? Because if he did it at knife point, I'm seriously thinking MK would have screamed already upon being grabbed, threatened and forced to have some sort of sexual encounter. I doubt she went through ALL that and didn't scream.

So for Nara's scenario to work, RG ALSO had to return to the cottage to "fake" a sexual assault. So if everyone's fleeing and running in different directions as Nara claims, how do they decide to return later to concoct all this? None of them have phones.

Seriously. Who thinks it's feasible that MK ONLY screamed for her life AFTER already being tackled and sexually assaulted?

Please help me see what i'm missing, because like I said, if they faked it later, that means RG had to return with AK and RS to do all the faking, including going inside MK's vagina once she was already dead for a while. That's very sick, but does anyone think that happened?

I have always held to Hendry's lone wolf murder at 9:30 pm, with any scream being someone else.....

 

[wasnt_me]

How is their conclusion - that there is plenty of evidence leftover, after rejecting the knife and clasp as per the independent experts with which to convict AK and RS - true?:waitasec:

I'm sorry, SMK, I was agreeing with them when they said that they, as a whole, need to let go of shoddy evidence and let the "well-collected" evidence be used to support their beliefs, because it will strengthen their position to do so. I said the opposing side of the debate, which we are on apparently, should do the same thing. And then, we let the most true evidence stand during our debates. For example, if the knife is weak sauce, then let the knife go. If implicating PL seems suspicious, then let it be so and move on in an effort to get to the truth.

I wasn't agreeing with the last part of the statement, only the part that you bolded. Hope that clears it up.

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, I agree with this. I hope your brother is doing better now...

Thanks. It was job stress and he's so much better after the whole incident. He'd quit his job first and the job was really killing him emotionally. he tried to kill himself due to panic and worthlessness over the job and also fear because he'd quit the job and had no income for the family. But quitting actually renewed his mind, and he's back on track.

 

[wasnt_me]

Here's the front door, blocked off by police tape, but wide open as I was describing in my other post.

So, like I was saying, I believe that if the burglary were REAL, it makes sense that the front door would be wide open because RG would not have known that the trick door would come back open on him.

However, if the burglary were FAKE, I cannot see any reason that AK (who'd reported that the front door had been wide open when she arrived) would have actually left the front door wide open herself after staging the crime scene. she knew there were valuables in the house, as well as a dead body. So I think she'd lock the door properly before leaving, just to keep out any unwanted people who could discover the body prematurely or to keep out anyone who'd try to steal her computer and ipod, which were left on her desk per this photo:

So, since I believe she would have been prudent in locking the front door, I have to assume that she would have believed that the police would have assumed that the burglar entered and exited the window, not the front door. So this is why I do not understand why she would even tell the police the front door had been wide open, if she were staging it.

If the door is wide open, I'd assume it's because someone kicked it in or used it as a point of exit for large stolen items that couldn't go back out the window.

So if she were guilty, why does she tell police that the front door had been wide open? Her story without that detail would still be the same, and it could make more sense as to why she entered the house and showered without a clue to the murder. So that's why that detail leads me to believe the break-in is real.

In the same token, she could have said the front door was wide open, but I was too scared to go in the house, so I pulled it shut and locked it, and then went to get RS. Why does she have an elaborate story about showering etc, unless it actually happened?

Finding your front door wide open is probable cause to think something's in there, someone's in there, something dangerous might be about to happen. It could have stood on it's own as plenty of reason not to enter the cottage but still call MK and FR. AK was not caught in the act of a cleanup. She called everyone she did call of her own accord beginning an hour or so before the police arrived. So from 11am to 12pm or whatever was enough time for her to go over her cleaning job, get it right without interruption. So I see no need for the elaborate story about showering and blood and feces in the toilet.

Of course barring her being the stupidest crime scene stagger in history, I just think the stuff she said really happened. Imagine how easily she could have said that she'd arrived home to find the door open, and getting freaked out, she rushed to get RS so they could call the police. And she didn't walk around the scene so she could have an excuse for the stuff they found, because in truth, they didn't find anything that would connect her to the murder in the house. Apparently she'd done a good job "cleaning," So she just needed to set the discovery in motion.

Also if staging it, why not leave the front door wide open and not even bother to break a window? It's a proven trick door. AK and RS would have contended that the door had opened on its own in the middle of the night stranger sneaked in. No need for elaborate rock throwing stories, when all the residents could back up the claim that the front door did not lock. (side note, I heard many times on the news, 'and he got in through an unlocked door...')

 

[SMK]

I'm sorry, SMK, I was agreeing with them when they said that they, as a whole, need to let go of shoddy evidence and let the "well-collected" evidence be used to support their beliefs, because it will strengthen their position to do so. I said the opposing side of the debate, which we are on apparently, should do the same thing. And then, we let the most true evidence stand during our debates. For example, if the knife is weak sauce, then let the knife go. If implicating PL seems suspicious, then let it be so and move on in an effort to get to the truth.

I wasn't agreeing with the last part of the statement, only the part that you bolded. Hope that clears it up.

Sure does.

 

[Nova]

True.

Let's say the scream is heard at 1130pm. When did the party start because n one saw lights in the cottage while the car was broken down. So they were partying in the dark? (satanic ritual?)

Then, I still contend that it makes zero sense for a scream to be heard and then running 2 minutes later. Just because MK screamed, doesn't mean her life was over or her fight was over. Doesn't even mean she'd been stabbed yet.

Is 2 minutes enough time to fatally stab her, leave her and run out the house? I'll go and ahead and grant a scenario that they return later for this instance, but still 2 minutes from the scream when there's no way to tell why MK's screaming? Is she screaming because she saw the knife? Is she screaming because she's about to be stabbed in the neck with it? What escalation to this is happening in the darkened house (according to the tow truck guy)?

Most importantly, when was there time for RG's sexual assault? Because if he did it at knife point, I'm seriously thinking MK would have screamed already upon being grabbed, threatened and forced to have some sort of sexual encounter. I doubt she went through ALL that and didn't scream.

So for Nara's scenario to work, RG ALSO had to return to the cottage to "fake" a sexual assault. So if everyone's fleeing and running in different directions as Nara claims, how do they decide to return later to concoct all this? None of them have phones.

Seriously. Who thinks it's feasible that MK ONLY screamed for her life AFTER already being tackled and sexually assaulted?

Please help me see what i'm missing, because like I said, if they faked it later, that means RG had to return with AK and RS to do all the faking, including going inside MK's vagina once she was already dead for a while. That's very sick, but does anyone think that happened?

It seems to be that if MK drowned in her own blood, then it took her several minutes to die after she was last capable of screaming. I suppose it's possible her killer(s) ran before she was actually dead, but then that doesn't explain the towels used to staunch the flow.

 

[SMK]

Thanks. It was job stress and he's so much better after the whole incident. He'd quit his job first and the job was really killing him emotionally. he tried to kill himself due to panic and worthlessness over the job and also fear because he'd quit the job and had no income for the family. But quitting actually renewed his mind, and he's back on track.

I am glad to hear this, makes a lot of sense.

 

[Allusonz]

In this post I did earlier, I was referring to the front door. I'm sorry if I caused any confusion, because I don't think I made it clear that I meant the front door, not MK's bedroom door.

Made perfect sense to me thus relax. I am sure to be the most famous for doing these type of things as I think back to the bars on the windows post and forgot to state the bottom windows. :giggle:

Anyone though that has followed this case usually understands what the person is trying to state

 

[Allusonz]

Thanks. It was job stress and he's so much better after the whole incident. He'd quit his job first and the job was really killing him emotionally. he tried to kill himself due to panic and worthlessness over the job and also fear because he'd quit the job and had no income for the family. But quitting actually renewed his mind, and he's back on track.

Lots of thoughts and prayers your way!!! Hope he is getting the help needed and glad he is back on track

 

[Allusonz]

Oh, and notice one other thing. In picture 147, do you see rings on the toe print to the right of the ruler? Those "rings" look like rings from RG's shoes. Or am I imagining things?

http://www.friendsofamanda.org/miscellaneous/luminol/147.jpg

I have to be honest. For the most part I don't even see footprints save for a couple of them.

As for the luminol showing on the bottom of the boots and rulers etc., again we are seeing contamination and a very incompetent investigation