Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

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You've sold me! Will buy back my copy as well as w_m's if we both don't like it?

All kidding aside, I don't own (or want) a Kindle. Can I download it and read it off my PC?

I don't own or want one either. If you go Amazon, they will let you download a kindle type thing for your PC. It's fast and easy. You can wind up with a virtual library on your computer. Wish i could scan in all the books I have laying around here. Oh, that would be thousands of pages! The good feature about it is the search feature. Like you can put in Rudy's name and it googles Rudy for the whole book. I love that! And when you copy and paste, it puts in the cite for you.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311
 
LOL, right, I will owe you and W_M big time...yikes....

but actually, I am not sure...you know what you might do? Go on Google Books, and type in "The Fatal Gift of Beauty" Nina Burleigh. You should be able to find a preview, and I mean of at least 5 or 6 of the Chapters....

OR TRY THIS: http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=kcp_pc_mkt_lnd?docId=1000426311

that's $26 bucks so far! You should have done the Amazon affiliate thing and made yourself 10 cents! LOL
 
@ Salem: To answer your question from before, RE the genre of the book:

I just now found that Burleigh's book is classified as Nonfiction, Italian Homicide, Case Studies.
 
chapter 3, so far. I don't know if I want to bother with it. It's called Seatle. Maybe I'll skip it for now.
 
chapter 3, so far. I don't know if I want to bother with it. It's called Seatle. Maybe I'll skip it for now.
Skip around, by all means.....I may have to.....:eek:fftobed::eek:fftobed: ssooon....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Yeah, I zoomed to 5, american girl. Wonder if Nova got the book?
Well, if he didn't, then I don't know how he's going to pass this AK course. We got a quiz tomorrow! :woohoo:

Good night!
 
Your hypothesis is that he walked in through the front door because it was unlikely (and not rational) that he broke in through the window in Filomena's room. But you believe Amanda chose this unlikely room to stage a fake break-in because she is a murderer and therefore is not a rational thinker. However, we know Rudy is a murderer, so that makes him not a rational thinker. Why do you find it more likely that Amanda is the one making poor, irrational decisions, as compared to Rudy?

The break-in is staged. Filomina's things were thrown on the floor, including the laptop, and the glass was on top of those items. Even Nina Burleigh seems to mention the glass on top of the items that were thrown onto the floor in Filomina's bedroom. The obvious way to break-in is over the balcony and in through the kitchen window. Guede had broken into the lawyer's office going over the balcony and in through the French doors. Two other break-ins into the cottage were done by someone climbing over the balcony and entering through the kitchen window. Since there are no signs of a true break-in, Guede must have entered through the front door.

Knox is now known for making poor decisions. When advised by her mother and aunt to immediately leave the country, she didn't listen. When interviewed about her activities on the night of the murder, she lied. In her email to the University and 25 others, she re-wrote the facts to describe what she should have done, not what she did. While waiting at the police station for Sollecito to answer questions, she flipped cartwheels and had to be told to "cut it out". Ater two hours of questioning, she accused an innocent man of murder. When trying to explain her false accusation, she claimed she was deprived of the necessities of life and beaten for 54 hours. When on trial for murder, she treated the process like a joke.
 
I returned because I just read in the book, where Nina is describing the cottage and moving in etc, in the "roommates" chapter. She says that RF did NOT feel safe with her window like it was. RF even worried that the wind could blow it open. She says that RF said in court that she didn't feel safe about that window and wanted Bars and new shutters.

As for the area, again, it's mentioned about people lurking around that property. They said they even found drug needles in the yard. the former occupants said that druggies would even be so bold as to come onto their parking area. While AK And MK were there, there were two incidents, at least, of them noticing someone lurking in the yard at night.

As Salem said, take the information as you will, from this source. Maybe it's rumor or hearsay, maybe it is fact. Wish we could see the whole of RF's testimony and statements, but she sounds to me like someone who wasn't sure about her window and felt that it would pop open at any time and was dangerous. Not sure how Massei concluded otherwise.
 
That does make sense.

I can accept that AK may have been wrong about MK's habits.

But how could RF possibly know that MK "never" locked her door. Was RF trying the handle every few minutes and keeping a log? That's the sort of negative that is meant in the phrase, "You can't disprove a negative."

From what I understand.. AK explained she only meant MK sometimes locked her door - the door being locked and nobody answering her knocks did freak her out and she went outside to see if she could reach the window.. then RS tried to open it (proof of his fingerprints on door)..

I knew I had read somewhere that Luca had to try a bunch of times to get the door open - some posters were arguing that Amanda could have broken the door down IF she had tried (Ha) I'm glad to see that one debunked (again) ..
and once more, the police officer didn't think a crime had been committed proving the blood in the bathroom was not alarming ..

but back to her locked door -- how would FR know whether or not Mk locked her door, was she constantly in and out of Meredith's room ? ..
we know MK's boyfriend slept over.. MK probably did lock her door for a shower.. especially if G. was in her bed..

Amanda was misunderstood.. plain n' simple
 
The break-in is staged. Filomina's things were thrown on the floor, including the laptop, and the glass was on top of those items. Even Nina Burleigh seems to mention the glass on top of the items that were thrown onto the floor in Filomina's bedroom. The obvious way to break-in is over the balcony and in through the kitchen window. Guede had broken into the lawyer's office going over the balcony and in through the French doors. Two other break-ins into the cottage were done by someone climbing over the balcony and entering through the kitchen window. Since there are no signs of a true break-in, Guede must have entered through the front door.

Knox is now known for making poor decisions. When advised by her mother and aunt to immediately leave the country, she didn't listen. When interviewed about her activities on the night of the murder, she lied. In her email to the University and 25 others, she re-wrote the facts to describe what she should have done, not what she did. While waiting at the police station for Sollecito to answer questions, she flipped cartwheels and had to be told to "cut it out". Ater two hours of questioning, she accused an innocent man of murder. When trying to explain her false accusation, she claimed she was deprived of the necessities of life and beaten for 54 hours. When on trial for murder, she treated the process like a joke.

The only pic I have is from here:
http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Prosecutionscase.html
So he went up that grating? He threw a rock didn't he? So did he climb up with a rock? Because it's 15 feet high, right?


If that's the case then maybe he did enter through the faulty front door, but he had a rock on him already. Meredith comes home, locks them both in. He attempts to flee, can't open the front door, and goes to the closest room to escape... knocks things around in the dark, and throws a rock at the window to break it, then realizes how high the window is just as Meredith confronts him. No facts to back that up, just another thought.

As for Knox's poor decisions, prior to Perugia it's my opinion that most people would allow Knox to babysit their kids and almost no one would let Rudy babysit their kids.

In the last few days <modsnip> downplaying Guede's past, almost like he's just a typical nice kid like any other. Like his life and the decisions he had made, thus far, was equivalent to Amanda's and Raffaelle's. It also seems, <modsnip>, like there is an argument being presented that he WASN'T the murderer.

I knew plenty of people in college who sang inappropriately, told false stories to make themselves look better, and got in trouble with cops because of loud parties. I didn't know anyone who broke into houses, and whose adoptive (or even biological) family disowned them for lying.

I concede the point that Amanda has made poor decisions. I think the ones you stated above are skewed. point by point 1) It wasn't stupid to stay, it was stupid not to lawyer up. 2) I don't know that her email was wrong. I think it matches with her explanations up until the 6th, with a few murky areas that I think are typical memory problems (exact sequencing issues) 3) Amanda was known to do yoga at all hours and in all places and to inappropriately do it in the presence of Filomena. Yes, bad judgement. 4) After two hours of questioning, on the 5th day of questioning, and after 4 days of previous questioning, and after being told there was solid proof that she was at the murder scene and other things of which we will never know the exact details for certain, she accused an innocent man of whom the poice were suspicious because of a text on her phone. 5) I don't think she claimed she was "deprived of the necessities of life and beaten for 54 hours." I googled this, and the only person who I could find who said this was you in websleuths. Back as early as #6 thread. Google showed Amanda's mother said she was questioned for 54 hours over 91 hours. Amanda's mom said Amanda was deprived of food and water. Amanda did say she was whacked on the head. She did not say "beaten." 6) As for treating the process like a joke, I think she has made some poor decisions during the trial, but I have seen far worse. She did not appear TO ME to treat it like a joke. It appeared TO ME that she inappropriately tried to maintain a "positive sunny attitude" in the face of a bad situation.

I know that it's easy for all of us to start spinning the story to match our beliefs (i.e. "positive sunny attitude" written above). But Guede was in clear trouble, and in fact, he is a murderer. I think we all believe he wielded a knife and at least attempted to sexually assault Meredith. That IS who he is.

I can logically understand asking how someone can believe Guede guilty and AK and RS innocent.

I don't get it when the facts implicating RS and AK are stated as clear and obvious, followed up by stating the facts proving Guede guilty are not clear and obvious.
 
Yeah, I zoomed to 5, american girl. Wonder if Nova got the book?
Well, if he didn't, then I don't know how he's going to pass this AK course. We got a quiz tomorrow! :woohoo:

Good night!

I have to go out of town for a couple of days on Monday. So I probably won't try it until I get back.

I'm very reluctant. I LOVE books. Real books. I gave away 2,500 when we moved from L.A. and I still have full bookshelves in every room.

I think I'm superstitious: I'm afraid if I give into Kindle or its PC cousin, all the books in the world will suddenly disappear.
 
Here is another article with patrick quotes...

Then, at dawn the next day - and with Knox by now in custody - Patrick was arrested by armed cops. "One officer elbowed me hard in the ribs. Another said he wished we were in America because then I'd get the electric chair.

"They said Amanda had told them I'd raped and stabbed Meredith to death while she was in another room.

"I was furious and felt sick with anger. I told them it was insane. They said if I confessed I'd only serve 15 years in prison, not 30." www.mirror.co.uk

(Patrick's attorney) in closing, Carlo Pacelli spread the same hate-filled message as Patrick in the dailymail article:

..said Knox had murdered then incriminated his client because she was a lying, diabolical "double soul" capable of being both saintly and satanic at the same time.

"Is Amanda Knox the angelic [person] we see here?" said Mr Pacelli, turning to point fiercely at Knox. "Or is she a diabolical she-devil, an explosive concentrate of sex, drugs and alcohol? She is both. But the latter is the Amanda we saw on November 1, 2007."

snip
Mr Pacelli repeatedly described what he called Knox's poor hygiene habits – the fact that she sometimes did not flush the toilet, and that she brought home lovers and kept condoms and a vibrator in a transparent beauty case in the bathroom.

"Amanda Knox was unclean on the outside because she was dirty on the inside," he said.
independent.co.uk

Pacelli .. so dramatic
 
I have to go out of town for a couple of days on Monday. So I probably won't try it until I get back.

I'm very reluctant. I LOVE books. Real books. I gave away 2,500 when we moved from L.A. and I still have full bookshelves in every room.

I think I'm superstitious: I'm afraid if I give into Kindle or its PC cousin, all the books in the world will suddenly disappear.

you need one.. you'd would love it .. travel much lighter, too :)
 
I don't get it when the facts implicating RS and AK are stated as clear and obvious, followed up by stating the facts proving Guede guilty are not clear and obvious.
snip
this is an argument I've never understood -
 
snip
this is an argument I've never understood -

The problem with this whole case is that it has never made any sense that AK and RS participated in the murder of MK. They really didn't know RG and had no reason to conspire with him. There is no evidence that AK had any grudge against MK and, despite attempts to inflate a few incidents such as a noise complaint (of all things!) against AK, neither AK nor RS had any criminal history.

Frankly, I think the forensics against AK and RS are a washout (and I don't just mean the disastrous DNA) and the coerced statements are transparently false (even pro-guilties have to cherry pick from the statements to find anything incriminating). But let's assume a footprint or something actually convinces one that AK and RS participated in the murder.

The frustration of not having a remotely plausible theory of the crime that implicates AK or RS leads those who think them guilty to cherry pick from statements they know to be false, argue that AK is both a dunce and a master criminal, argue that behavior consistent with innocence is actually proof of sociopathy, or retreat into tabloid nonsense about cartwheels that even at its worse doesn't prove AK guilty of murder.

The pro-guilty view simply cannot be articulated without enormous leaps of logic. Not even Massei could do it and he had 400 pages to try.
 
In the last few days <modsnip> downplaying Guede's past, almost like he's just a typical nice kid like any other. Like his life and the decisions he had made, thus far, was equivalent to Amanda's and Raffaelle's. It also seems, in some posts, like there is an argument being presented that he WASN'T the murderer.
*Snipped*. <modsnip>. Pointing out to what the facts are and what the rumors are has nothing to do with any downplaying. The attempts to make RG look like a serial killer go all the way back to when the defense still was trying their lone wolf scenario. That is the only reason why all these rumors have popped up. Most of them originate from the defense themselves.

The truth is that if you look at the facts then you see nothing where you could foresee that any of these 3 would become murders. I don't read much into the rock throwing party of AK, or manga collection of RS either. And indeed I don't see any aggressive rapist murder in RG just because he stole some stuff. He even returned some of the stolen stuff. Where is the aggression?

IMO none of these 3 would ever by themselves murder anyone. This is where the group dynamic comes into play which is a very interesting discussion <modsnip>
 
BTW, I watched a Dateline last night about Ryan Ferguson, an all-American boy who was falsely accused of murdering a newspaper editor in Columbia, MO, in 2001.

The friend who accused him has recanted; the eyewitness who identified Ryan has recanted. Both claim their testimonies were coerced by LE. The account of attempted coercion is backed up by other witnesses who refused to cooperate and say what LE wanted them to say.

There is no forensic evidence implicating Ryan and all the forensic evidence at the scene (fingerprints, bloody footprints, etc.) points to others.

The only evidence against Ryan is a dream his friend had two years after the murder; in the dream, the friend said he saw himself and Ryan robbing and killing the editor to get drink money and then returning to the club where they were partying. The problem with that story is that the club closed at 1:30 a.m. and it is known for certain that the victim wasn't killed until after 2.

Nonetheless, after 8 years of appeals and recantations, Ryan Ferguson remains in a Missouri prison.

I don't think we should get our hopes up for Knox or Sollecito. No matter how nonsensical the prosecution's story, once a conviction is obtained, reversing the verdict tends to call the entire system into question. And bureaucratic systems are like human bodies, they are ruthlessly efficient in fighting off invaders who threaten the health of the organism.
 
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