Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #17

[wasnt_me]

Nope.

You know, I was reading the book, where she's talking about RS's alibi switch. I always thought he was mixing up his days, but she put in plain English in the book that he was telling them what had happened on Oct 31st, not Nov 1, right down to the phone call from his father at 11pm or so.

So many people in this case have done this, and it made me wonder if she wasn't killed on halloween.

Remember when the homeless man did the same thing? Hash must be one hell of a drug.

 

[SMK]

Nope.

You know, I was reading the book, where she's talking about RS's alibi switch. I always thought he was mixing up his days, but she put in plain English in the book that he was telling them what had happened on Oct 31st, not Nov 1, right down to the phone call from his father at 11pm or so.

So many people in this case have done this, and it made me wonder if she wasn't killed on halloween.

Remember when the homeless man did the same thing? Hash must be one hell of a drug.

YES, i was going to mention this, too. It really impressed me. RS mixed up his days, very easy to do when you are being yelled at by police....But why do you believe MK might have been killed on Halloween? Didn't her friends see her leave on Nov 1? Or was it the 31? :waitasec:

 

[wasnt_me]

That's what I'm saying. I don't even know anymore and I wasn't even interrogated!

Yes, according to her friends, and I guess MK had cell phone activity before 856pm. Seriously, I'm guessing. Hopefully, she did.

So according to what we know, MK was seen by:

AK, RS, and the 4 british girls that day. And then RG, who killed her.

Mig said it was a satanic or masonic ritual supposed to be done on Halloween, but couldn't be done on halloween because RF and LM had made some kind of dinner. Anyways, he then deferred to the police's sex game gone wrong theory.

Yeah, it was Nov 1st, but I'm just saying, all this confusion with people talking about Halloween night in their statements just confuses me.

But RS claimed in correspondence with Nina that they already suspected his shoes. They took them from him in the interrogation room. Then they started telling him that AK left his house that night and they knew it for a fact.

He'd previously told them the "real" story but they kept asking, or pressing or whatever, and he claimed he confused Halloween night with Nov 1st in the retelling. After that, he goes before the judge and says that his second story was really the BS story and he returned to his original story.

I'd wondered why events from Halloween had become significant in the trial and I suppose this is why. This and perhaps them trying to prove MK didn't want Ak hangning out with her on Halloween.

Anyways if it's true that they took RS's shoes during that Nov 5th interrogation, then in my book he just stepped in the the suspect zone, and no longer just a person with facts. The book even says the police were already searching his house and google searches on his computer proved that while he was at the police station, they were at his house at 5am Nov 6th.

PL was pulled out of bed at 3am the same night.

And they had to keep giving the judge something to keep them in prison. they had zelch on PL. so he had to be let go. they had the shoes on RS, but those came back as a negative. So practically the next dang on day, the bra clasp was magically collected. That is fishy as the ocean, man.

 

[Nova]

To me, it's weird that she, who committed no crime, had a lawyer on the scene within an hour of the body's discovery. That is weird to me, yes, whether she understood the system or not. I do not know what she, who committed no crime, needed a lawyer for, and she certainly didn't share that lawyer or lawyer's advice with other flatmates. Why not help out AK, who wasn't a suspect that day, by telling her to get a lawyer, too, if she knew the system so well. I'm totally not understanding that.

Instead, RF pretended to still be AK's friend and that they'd get a place together again right up until AK was arrested, because in my opinion, she wanted to glean information out of AK. If what the book we're reading says is true, RF expressed a lot of frustration with Ak and had started to suspect her on Saturday or sunday, and yet, she still called AK and pretended to be all friends and moving together.

I just don't know about RF.

Did someone say FR was the daughter of a lawyer? Perhaps she called her father who told her the lazy Perugian police would immediately look at the other residents of the apartment.

 

[wasnt_me]

That's possible, if he is one. I don't know, but I still don't know why she wouldn't even give AK a little advice. But, maybe she did and we just don't know about it.

 

[Nova]

or his father, who directed his life down to his myspace/ facebook page.

Of course, RS wasn't a resident of the house. And he had an alibi. He was innocent, so maybe it never occurred to him that he would be suspected.

 

[wasnt_me]

I'm reading about this vasoline jar. They said it was open. so it was a jar. But without knowing much more, I wonder if RG just used it for lubricant and not for what they say, which is anal sex.

 

[Nova]

It could be about that. Maybe she knew MK had the key and she thought "dumb AK" or even "dumb MK" (since she didn't know she was dead.) would let the police into the downstairs apartment.

I just don't know what FR's laptop had to do with it....Why would the burglar or stagger throw it across the room and destroy it? If that was done, how was glass on top of it as described in the massei report?

We just don't know enough about her and I don't know if we're allowed to sleuth her. I don't think we are. so....

In fairness to FR, I think most of us have material on our laptops that we consider intensely private, that we would be embarrassed to have shown to the world. Maybe her rush to get the laptop was nothing more than that.

But you and SMK are right: if we are going to count suspicious actions, FR certainly equals or even beats AK.

 

[miley]

Does anyone know what day and time Meredith's memorial was?

I remember reading somewhere that the one of the cops "knew" the duo was guilty because they were eating pizza instead.

This receipt shows them ordering pizza on the 4th sometime around 5pm.

http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.co...coming-out-of-the-uk-on-the-amanda-knox-case/

thanks, I never could figure this out.. but it looks like they were eating pizza the day *before* the memorial - 24 hrs. earlier
from poster Dan O. timeline here

17:00 Student Memorial for Meredith monstersandcritics.com
"A picture taken on Monday night November, 5 2007 shows a tribute from Meredith Kercher's friends in Perugia who held held a candlelight vigil on the steps of the town's cathedral.The English girl was brutally murdered at her apartment late last week."​

Also, I just read somewhere else that Rudy threw a rock through a double window at the solicitor's office? Can anyone find any data on this exact break-in? Did he throw a rock from the ground, and climb? or did he carry a rock up with him?

from abc.com

Palazzoli discovered they had been broken into Sunday, Oct. 14, 2007, and police later determined that the thief or thieves had entered by climbing up to the window, which is above a terrace, about 12 feet high. Police determined a rock was used with some strength to break through the double glass, and the alarm system was disabled. A computer and a printer were missing. ​

snip​

Brocchi explained in court that about two weeks after the theft, Oct. 27, he received a call from the police saying that they had found the stolen computer and a cell phone belonging to him (which he had not realized had gone missing). The objects were found on a person who was picked up by police in Milan, but they did not specify who that person was.

But two days later, a young black man showed up on the steps to Brocchi's office in gym shorts and a tank top (though it was cold) holding a basketball. ​

so.. I guess Milan police call Perugia police about Rudy breaking in the nursery and having the stolen items and (for the moment) neither do anything?

 

[wasnt_me]

Yes, of course. I just now wonder which is true. Did it get thrown across the room and broken or did it have glass on top of it?

This is a crucial point in the case, since she is the one who first said the glass was on top of everything. I thought she specifically said the laptop was sitting on its side when she left it, and when she got back it was flat on the floor with glass on it. I didn't get the impression it had been thrown anywhere.

 

[Nova]

That's what I'm saying. I don't even know anymore and I wasn't even interrogated!

Yes, according to her friends, and I guess MK had cell phone activity before 856pm. Seriously, I'm guessing. Hopefully, she did.

So according to what we know, MK was seen by:

AK, RS, and the 4 british girls that day. And then RG, who killed her.

Mig said it was a satanic or masonic ritual supposed to be done on Halloween, but couldn't be done on halloween because RF and LM had made some kind of dinner. Anyways, he then deferred to the police's sex game gone wrong theory.

Yeah, it was Nov 1st, but I'm just saying, all this confusion with people talking about Halloween night in their statements just confuses me.

But RS claimed in correspondence with Nina that they already suspected his shoes. They took them from him in the interrogation room. Then they started telling him that AK left his house that night and they knew it for a fact.

He'd previously told them the "real" story but they kept asking, or pressing or whatever, and he claimed he confused Halloween night with Nov 1st in the retelling. After that, he goes before the judge and says that his second story was really the BS story and he returned to his original story.

I'd wondered why events from Halloween had become significant in the trial and I suppose this is why. This and perhaps them trying to prove MK didn't want Ak hangning out with her on Halloween.

Anyways if it's true that they took RS's shoes during that Nov 5th interrogation, then in my book he just stepped in the the suspect zone, and no longer just a person with facts. The book even says the police were already searching his house and google searches on his computer proved that while he was at the police station, they were at his house at 5am Nov 6th.

PL was pulled out of bed at 3am the same night.

And they had to keep giving the judge something to keep them in prison. they had zelch on PL. so he had to be let go. they had the shoes on RS, but those came back as a negative. So practically the next dang on day, the bra clasp was magically collected. That is fishy as the ocean, man.

Now I'm confused. I thought the bra clasp was collected six weeks after RS was confined. Are you saying it took that long to test his shoes?

 

[wasnt_me]

If the authorities said they had the items a couple days prior to RG showing up, I'm thinking the owner went down and got them from the station. Why are we concluding that RG returned them?

 

[Nova]

I'm reading about this vasoline jar. They said it was open. so it was a jar. But without knowing much more, I wonder if RG just used it for lubricant and not for what they say, which is anal sex.

Where were RG's skin cells found inside the victim? I've been assume they were in her vagina. Is that wrong?

 

[wasnt_me]

Now I'm confused. I thought the bra clasp was collected six weeks after RS was confined. Are you saying it took that long to test his shoes?

I guess I am. I don't know. I'm just reading what the reports say. Good question, though. I'd have to go pull some news articles to see.

According to this, the shoes didn't go to testing until November 12th, 7 days after collected, which they were collected around the same time the knife was.

Further tests will take place today on the Nike shoes worn by Raffaele Sollecito, another suspect, and on a flick knife found in his possession, which is said by police to be “compatible” with the murder weapon.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2852819.ece

ETA

On december 6th, this italian article is still attributing the shoe print to RS:

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsSezioni/cronache/200712articoli/28194girata.asp

 

[miley]

In fairness to FR, I think most of us have material on our laptops that we consider intensely private, that we would be embarrassed to have shown to the world. Maybe her rush to get the laptop was nothing more than that.

But you and SMK are right: if we are going to count suspicious actions, FR certainly equals or even beats AK.

my first thought was FR may have had embarrassing pics. or something - but at this point, I'm not discounting anything.. Nina may be on to something.

was her laptop even dusted for fingerprints? -- once realizing there had been a murder why was she was allowed to take it?

 

[wasnt_me]

Where were RG's skin cells found inside the victim? I've been assume they were in her vagina. Is that wrong?

yep. They didn't say vasoline was in there, too, though. Maybe he did digital, then tried to use the vasoline and it just didn't work because she was dying. I hate to even write this stuff, but...

 

[miley]

If the authorities said they had the items a couple days prior to RG showing up, I'm thinking the owner went down and got them from the station. Why are we concluding that RG returned them?

oh, I misunderstood --
more from the article:

Brocchi said the man spoke perfect Italian with a Perugia accent and told him that he had been caught with some things that Brocchi had reported as stolen, and just wanted to tell Brocchi that he had bought those things and paid for them at the Milan train station.

"I told him, 'look, I have no idea who you are'," said Brocchi in court. "And he answered, 'I don't know who you are, either.'" Brocchi then told the young man he just wanted his things back, and shut the door.

Days later, Brocchi said he recognized Guede as the man who had visited him when Guede's picture appeared in newspapers reporting his arrest.​

ETA: was Rudy allowed to keep the stolen merchandise.. how did the items get back to Perugia?

 

[Nova]

I guess I am. I don't know. I'm just reading what the reports say. Good question, though. I'd have to go pull some news articles to see.

According to this, the shoes didn't go to testing until November 12th, 7 days after collected, which they were collected around the same time the knife was.

Further tests will take place today on the Nike shoes worn by Raffaele Sollecito, another suspect, and on a flick knife found in his possession, which is said by police to be “compatible” with the murder weapon.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2852819.ece

ETA

On december 6th, this italian article is still attributing the shoe print to RS:

http://www.lastampa.it/redazione/cmsSezioni/cronache/200712articoli/28194girata.asp

Thanks, w_m, but please don't go to any trouble for me. I just surprised for a moment, but you're probably right that the shoe test took 6 weeks. In any event, it doesn't really matter.

 

[sherlockh]

Sherlock, I'm not sure if you're aware that both Amanda's 1:30am and 5:30am statements have been available in full and posted here in the past, and that neither contain a quote saying anything like "We were drunk and just wanted to have fun", or anything about Meredith refusing to join her and someone else in something. What you've done is quote a tabloid article from just a couple days after the murder, containing information that is false. You can either search for the actual statements released by PLE on here from when it was posted some time back, or if not, at some point I will search for them and will repost them. Either way, it would be better to cite the official documents.

As far as your argument bout Mignini not ever being the one to raise the satanic ritual/masonic ritual/Halloween rite as a catalyst for the murder of Meredith Kercher, I think the best way to convince those of us who disagree with you would be to cite where Mignini has ever denied this. I have never read that, but if you claim he did then please, when you have the time, cite this as it would be quite helpful in clearing this up. I will note that simply because some of the sources for the claim of satanism are from the defense lawyers does not mean it is not true. As others have cited for you, the media has reported this as coming from the prosecution and Barbie Nadeau writes in her book that Mignini's satanic ritual argument was thrown out by the judge before the trial started.

I have the official transcripts. They do not contain every word AK said. In fact, they only contain a few lines. But if you think the leaks to the newspapers were fake and it is not what she said then that is fair enough.

Mignini was very clear in his interview with CNN. Translations are on TJMK and PMF I think.

1’03” CNN: You’ve never said that Meredith’s death was a satanic rite?
1’08” Mignini: I have never said that. I have never understood who has and continues to say that. I read, there was a reporter, – I don’t know his name, I mention it because I noticed it, – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it’s not like that. I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite. I’ve never said it, so I would like to know who made it up. This is a conspiracy, a fantasy, to my detriment though, to my detriment. Simply a sexual act. And maybe I have always said, I maintained this in the first-instance trial, there was a relationship which deteriorated between the two girls. I’ve always maintained that. I’ll tell you this because…

 

[Nova]

yep. They didn't say vasoline was in there, too, though. Maybe he did digital, then tried to use the vasoline and it just didn't work because she was dying. I hate to even write this stuff, but...

I know what you mean. That's why I stopped referring to the victim by name for this discussion. I don't usually like to de-personalize her, but in this case it seems appropriate.