Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[otto]

otto,

To the best of my understanding, rent was payed in cash. This was a holiday weekend, and the rent may have been due later.

Sure it was paid in cash, but why would Guede know that? How would Guede know anything about the rent money arrangement without someone like Knox giving him that information?

 

[otto]

There is one item I would like to point out that is often not referred to when it comes to this particular breakin.

Maybe RG knew or found out that MK would be looking after the plants in the bottom level and would have the keys to that area. In an area with that many college students maybe the real motvie was not for the money maybe was for the keys to access the pot so that it could be sold easity and quickly for money

So now we have Guede knowing that Meredith had the keys to the flat downstairs, knowing that Meredith would be home alone and so he intended to break into the cottage by scaling a wall a few times before climbing through a broken window, somehow sneaking the keys from Meredith, then breaking into the flat downstairs, bagging some small pot plants and then being a drug dealer for the night ... and this clever plan would never be discovered?

 

[Footwarrior]

It was late at night on Nov 1. Rent money is usually due at the end of the month. There was no reason whatsoever for Rudy to assume that there was any rent money in the cottage. For all he knew, rent was paid with post dated cheques. The only person that knew the rent money had not yet been paid, and that it was paid in cash, was Knox.

In Perugia it was traditional for rent to be due on the first working day of the month. Most Italian landlords also prefer to be paid in cash. (Part of Italy's budget problem is the result of small businesses that are paid in cash not reporting all of their income to the tax man).

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Sure it was paid in cash, but why would Guede know that? How would Guede know anything about the rent money arrangement without someone like Knox giving him that information?

otto,

It is my understanding that rent is generally paid in cash in Italy, but if that is an overgeneralization, perhaps someone can point this out. How would Knox communicate that (or any other) information to him? Rudy had no phone, there is no record of email contact, and there was a bit of a language barrier, IIRC.

 

[otto]

In Perugia it was traditional for rent to be due on the first working day of the month. Most Italian landlords also prefer to be paid in cash. (Part of Italy's budget problem is the result of small businesses that are paid in cash not reporting all of their income).

If the rent wasn't due for a couple of more days, why would Guede assume that it was in the cottage?

 

[otto]

otto,

It is my understanding that rent is generally paid in cash in Italy, but if that is an overgeneralization, perhaps someone can point this out. How would Knox communicate that (or any other) information to him? Rudy had no phone, there is no record of email contact, and there was a bit of a language barrier, IIRC.

Knox and Guede had met a few times, partied together - smoked some dope, met at the bar and in the square. The more important question is why would we assume that Guede had all sorts of details about the rent money and why would he break into the cottage on the evening of Nov 1 for that rent money? There was no reason for him to assume that there was any cash lying around.

 

[js202]

I don't click on blog links, so no I didn't look at photos on another blog.

Stating that Filomena is not a student living in a dorm, and then proceeding to discuss messy dorm students doesn't exactly follow. She was not a dorm student and there is absolutely no reason to believe that this fully employed woman threw her clothes on the floor.

If you have not seen the photos, which are actual crime scene photos, then you have no way of judging what I am positing.

And Filomena was a young woman living in a cottage full of young people and students. It was a communal environment, similar to those I lived in as a college student in the United States and as a visiting student in France. Based on the photos, in my opinion, Filomena's organizational habits tended toward clutter and messiness.

But, again, at the end of the day, this is immaterial bickering. Rudy Guede broke into the cottage through Filomena's window, perhaps rifled through her closet, and then proceeded into the interior of the cottage. This, after all, is what the preponderance of the physical and circumstantial evidence support.

 

[otto]

If you have not seen the photos, which are actual crime scene photos, then you have no way of judging what I am positing.

And Filomena was a young woman living in a cottage full of young people and students. It was a communal environment, similar to those I lived in as a college student in the United States and as a visiting student in France. Based on the photos, in my opinion, Filomena's organizational habits tended toward clutter and messiness.

But, again, at the end of the day, this is immaterial bickering. Rudy Guede broke into the cottage through Filomena's window, perhaps rifled through her closet, and then proceeded into the interior of the cottage. This, after all, is what the preponderance of the physical and circumstantial evidence support.

I do not click on blog links. That does not mean that I have not seen the crime scene photos.

Filomina and Laura were fully employed Italian women living in Perugia, working in the legal field and looking to rent out a couple of rooms in the cottage. That does not mean that they lived or acted like dorm students.

Guede, Knox and Sollecito are convicted of murder. The court has accepted the investigative work leading to the conclusion that the break-in was staged.

 

[Allusonz]

So now we have Guede knowing that Meredith had the keys to the flat downstairs, knowing that Meredith would be home alone and so he intended to break into the cottage by scaling a wall a few times before climbing through a broken window, somehow sneaking the keys from Meredith, then breaking into the flat downstairs, bagging some small pot plants and then being a drug dealer for the night ... and this clever plan would never be discovered?

No I was simply pointing out an alternative thought that maybe he was not after the rent money but the drug money or drugs themselves

 

[js202]

I do not click on blog links. That does not mean that I have not seen the crime scene photos.

Filomina and Laura were fully employed Italian women living in Perugia, working in the legal field and looking to rent out a couple of rooms in the cottage. That does not mean that they lived or acted like dorm students.

Guede, Knox and Sollecito are convicted of murder. The court has accepted the investigative work leading to the conclusion that the break-in was staged.

Not for long, I'm pleased to aver. :loser:

 

[otto]

No I was simply pointing out an alternative thought that maybe he was not after the rent money but the drug money or drugs themselves

So ... he wants the small pot plants ... so rather than break into the downstairs flat to get the small pot plants, he scaled a wall a few times, broke a window in another flat, hoped to find a key for the place he really wanted to break into and then murdered Meredith instead.

Wouldn't it make an awful lot more sense for him to simply kick in the window in the downstairs flat, just like the police officer did, and break into the downstairs flat?

 

[reb]

I've never understood how this case got so convoluted. Drug-fueled sex games and black magic gone awry....??? Seriously, people? I see we haven't evolved much since the Salem Witch Trials-- and I see that women especially are guilty of branding other women 'evil witches' for no other reason than they don't like their looks, or (in this case)- the media happens to select and promote a particular photograph where they appear to be 'smirking' and so on... so millions of people (especially other women) decide they 'hate' this person- and they are 100% guilty and should be burned at the stake immediately. This case makes me sick. So they say she did cartwheels at the police station?? Who has proof of this? Even if she did, while inappropriate, that doesn't make her guilty. But I don't believe she did that just because ONE wtiness claims she did. A so-called 'witness' can make up anything about anyone. And there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Italy so it's no surprise they wanted to crucify her. This case is plain & simple to me-- Rudy Guede is a man, and he had one motive (which men often do, sadly)-- to rape & kill Meredith--which he did. (Whether kiling her was part of the original idea, who knows.) What motive did Meredith & Rafael have..?
I hope that justice is done and they quit trying to misdirect the blame on these other 2... who just seem to be scapegoats, for whatever reason. It's disturbing how '3rd-world' the Italian justice system seems to be (at least judging by this case)...

 

[otto]

I've never understood how this case got so convoluted. Drug-fueled sex games and black magic gone awry....??? Seriously, people? I see we haven't evolved much since the Salem Witch Trials-- and I see that women especially are guilty of branding other women 'evil witches' for no other reason than they don't like their looks, or (in this case)- the media happens to select and promote a particular photograph where they appear to be 'smirking' and so on... so millions of people (especially other women) decide they 'hate' this person- and they are 100% guilty and should be burned at the stake immediately. This case makes me sick. So they say she did cartwheels at the police station?? Who has proof of this? Even if she did, while inappropriate, that doesn't make her guilty. But I don't believe she did that just because ONE wtiness claims she did. A so-called 'witness' can make up anything about anyone. And there is a lot of anti-American sentiment in Italy so it's no surprise they wanted to crucify her. This case is plain & simple to me-- Rudy Guede is a man, and he had one motive (which men often do, sadly)-- to rape & kill Meredith--which he did. (Whether kiling her was part of the original idea, who knows.) What motive did Meredith & Rafael have..?
I hope that justice is done and they quit trying to misdirect the blame on these other 2... who just seem to be scapegoats, for whatever reason. It's disturbing how '3rd-world' the Italian justice system seems to be (at least judging by this case)...

It makes much more sense to suggest that Guede intuitively knew that Meredith had her rent money in her room and that he broke into the house to get that money, or that he wanted to steal pot plants in another place so he broke into the cottage instead, or that he didn't steal the laptop because suddenly, or perhaps only in Italy, stolen laptops have no value.

Not sure what motive "Meredith and Rafael" had. What do you think?

 

[Chris_Halkides]

Knox and Guede had met a few times, partied together - smoked some dope, met at the bar and in the square. The more important question is why would we assume that Guede had all sorts of details about the rent money and why would he break into the cottage on the evening of Nov 1 for that rent money? There was no reason for him to assume that there was any cash lying around.

otto.

You are exaggerating how well Knox knew Guede. They may have met at a party, but that is not quite the same implication as partying together. A few comments ago, you were implying that the rent was due earlier than the night of 1 November, now you are saying it was only due a few days later. The only constant is your incredulity. I think that Guede knew when his own rent was due and knew that students (among others) were likely to be on holiday. Most people keep some cash at home, so I do not know for certain that Guede was after the rent money, but he might have thought there was a chance that it was.

 

[Chris_Halkides]

It makes much more sense to suggest that Guede intuitively knew that Meredith had her rent money in her room and that he broke into the house to get that money, or that he wanted to steal pot plants in another place so he broke into the cottage instead, or that he didn't steal the laptop because suddenly, or perhaps only in Italy, stolen laptops have no value.

Not sure what motive "Meredith and Rafael" had. What do you think?

otto,

You are ignoring the fact that he had been caught with a stolen laptop. Once bitten, twice shy?

 

[js202]

It makes much more sense to suggest that Guede intuitively knew that Meredith had her rent money in her room and that he broke into the house to get that money, or that he wanted to steal pot plants in another place so he broke into the cottage instead, or that he didn't steal the laptop because suddenly, or perhaps only in Italy, stolen laptops have no value.

Not sure what motive "Meredith and Rafael" had. What do you think?

I suspect after he brutally raped and murdered Meredith Kercher, Guede very well might have lost track of his original goals and was happy to leave with her cash, credit cards and cell phones.

After all, he had to make his way back home wearing bloody clothes, which was distraction enough. I'd think that the prospect of also carrying along a cumbersome laptop might have overloaded his puny, criminal mind. And he'd already stolen a laptop from the lawyer's office; perhaps he was fresh out of need for those. Perhaps, after being discovered by Meredith and then killing her, he just wanted to get the hell out as quickly and conveniently as possible.

 

[otto]

otto.

You are exaggerating how well Knox knew Guede. They may have met at a party, but that is not quite the same implication as partying together. A few comments ago, you were implying that the rent was due earlier than the night of 1 November, now you are saying it was only due a few days later. The only constant is your incredulity. I think that Guede knew when his own rent was due and knew that students (among others) were likely to be on holiday. Most people keep some cash at home, so I do not know for certain that Guede was after the rent money, but he might have thought there was a chance that it was.

I thought that the rent should be paid on the 31st or no later than the following day (well before 10 PM). It was suggested that because it was a long weekend that the rent could be paid the following work day. I'm open minded ... so let's make it the following workday. That still would not explain why Guede would expect anyone to have the cash on hand late at night on Nov 1.

Knox admitted during testimony that she had met Guede a few times and we know that she smoked pot with him at a small party (about 6 people). Some bloggers have recently tried to rewrite history by claiming that they had never met, but that doesn't change the fact that they had met a few times.

 

[otto]

otto,

You are ignoring the fact that he had been caught with a stolen laptop. Once bitten, twice shy?

So, he was found with a stolen laptop that he had taken from a law office after climbing over the balcony to enter the building. That made him "twice shy" about stealing a laptop, but not "twice shy" about breaking into a building?

 

[Kaosium]

I thought that the rent should be paid on the 31st or no later than the following day (well before 10 PM). It was suggested that because it was a long weekend that the rent could be paid the following work day. I'm open minded ... so let's make it the following workday. That still would not explain why Guede would expect anyone to have the cash on hand late at night on Nov 1.

Knox admitted during testimony that she had met Guede a few times and we know that she smoked pot with him at a small party (about 6 people). Some bloggers have recently tried to rewrite history by claiming that they had never met, but that doesn't change the fact that they had met a few times.

Amanda's testimony indicates she was introduced to him once, may have seen him at Le Chic once, might have seen him around the neighborhood a few times. She also testified that a spinello was smoked there the night she was introduced to him, she did not testify that she smoked it with Rudy. If the prosecution thought they could prove she did drugs with the murderer, you'd think they'd have asked that straight out, they had the opportunity, not just try to use sleazy lawyer tricks to imply Amanda and Rudy had a closer relationship than they did.

 

[Footwarrior]

Amanda's testimony indicates she was introduced to him once, may have seen him at Le Chic once, might have seen him around the neighborhood a few times. She also testified that a spinello was smoked there the night she was introduced to him, she did not testify that she smoked it with Rudy. If the prosecution thought they could prove she did drugs with the murderer, you'd think they'd have asked that straight out, they had the opportunity, not just try to use sleazy lawyer tricks to imply Amanda and Rudy had a closer relationship than they did.

The prosecution did put a homeless guy on the stand who claimed he saw Amanda, Raffaele, Meredith and Rudy walking to the cottage together a few days before the murder. Raffaele was at a graduation party at the time, so the witness wasn't believed. The prosecution's homeless witness crew ended up 0 for 3 in believability.