Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[SkewedView]

Not only are all employees of the court, police, the victim's lawer and forensic lab incompetent, but the jury was biased, journalists with a specific viewpoint are biased or incompetent, the country is "anti-American" and now Meredith's friends are "catty" (did I miss anyone?). Next week, we'll hear criticisms of Patrick's lawyer since we already know that he has nothing good to say about Knox.

It is not difficult to consider that Knox rubbed Meredith and her friends the wrong way - it was a culture clash with aberrations.

Knox didn't stay to help out, she was ordered to remain in the country - from the recorded conversation she had with her aunt on Nov 3.

Speaking of catty, what did I do to warrant such a snarky, dismissive response to a post about my personal impressions and the undeniable fact that this 'exclusive interview' tells us nothing that hasn't seen print before?

I don't immediately recall that conversation you speak of, can you direct me to a source so I'm up to speed on the subject?

 

[js202]

Then what does this mean?

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#rudyguede supreme court sentencing IS already entered into this appellate court docket. Will b part of deliberation no doubt. #amandaknox

The sentencing includes the conclusion that Guede did not act alone.

What do you trust more? The knowledge that Hellmann rejected the prosecution's request? Or Nadeau's tweeting of two apparently mutually exclusive things?

And the Supreme Court ruled that Guede's *trial and sentencing* were legal, they did not give their imprimatur to the lower court's finding that three parties were involved in the murder. As others have surely tried to point out to you, AK and RS cannot be incriminated by a trial in which they had no opportunity to defend themselves. I realize that you are baying for their conviction at all costs, but this would be an uncivilized travesty of justice. I doubt even courts in North Korea would allow such a thing.

 

[js202]

Speaking of catty, what did I do to warrant such a snarky, dismissive response to a post about my personal impressions and the undeniable fact that this 'exclusive interview' tells us nothing that hasn't seen print before?

I don't immediately recall that conversation you speak of, can you direct me to a source so I'm up to speed on the subject?

More falsehoods. Was Knox under house arrest? After all, these cynical bastards were following her around and interrogating her while telling her that she was not a suspect.

Were there roadblocks? Without question, AK and RS could have gotten in RS' Audi at any time before they were incarcerated and left for Germany.

 

[SMK]

Then what does this mean?

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#rudyguede supreme court sentencing IS already entered into this appellate court docket. Will b part of deliberation no doubt. #amandaknox

The sentencing includes the conclusion that Guede did not act alone.

She is obviously speculating there, and I and others do not trust her judgement for obvious reasons.

 

[otto]

Culture Clash

@ ... upthread that Mignini mentioned the vibrator. The word alone means little. However, the fact that Meredith was uncomfortable with Knox's display of sexuality (vibrator, condoms in clear plastic container hung in the bathroom) was probably not a secret. Knox not pitching in at the cottage was also mentioned way back at the beginning.

The relevance/implication is threefold; Meredith was uncomfortabe with this immodest and crass display (tells us something about the victim), there was tension between them (goes to motive) and Italians, generally modest (like the victim), would identify with Meredith in this dispute: to leave your vibrator on display in a shared accommodation bathroom, or not. Knox probably knew that Meredith was uncomfortable with her habits. She was not respectful of Meredith. She also did not keep up her responsibilities of taking her turn to clean the bathroom. Knox confirmed that there was no blood on the bathroom faucet at 5 PM the night before, so it got there at the time of the murder. How did her blood get there during that time period again?

 

[js202]

Speaking of catty, what did I do to warrant such a snarky, dismissive response to a post about my personal impressions and the undeniable fact that this 'exclusive interview' tells us nothing that hasn't seen print before?

I don't immediately recall that conversation you speak of, can you direct me to a source so I'm up to speed on the subject?

It's not your fault. The smell of desperation is in the air.

 

[SMK]

What do you trust more? The knowledge that Hellmann rejected the prosecution's request? Or Nadeau's tweeting of two apparently mutually exclusive things?

And the Supreme Court ruled that Guede's *trial and sentencing* were legal, they did not give their imprimatur to the lower court's finding that three parties were involved in the murder. As others have surely tried to point out to you, AK and RS cannot be incriminated by a trial in which they had no opportunity to defend themselves. I realize that you are baying for their conviction at all costs, but this would be an uncivilized travesty of justice. I doubt even courts in North Korea would allow such a thing.

Right, it is obvious that Nadeau is just speculating. Her "no doubt" is wimpy and lacks authority.

 

[otto]

Speaking of catty, what did I do to warrant such a snarky, dismissive response to a post about my personal impressions and the undeniable fact that this 'exclusive interview' tells us nothing that hasn't seen print before?

I don't immediately recall that conversation you speak of, can you direct me to a source so I'm up to speed on the subject?

Dismissing the friends as catty and rubbing people the wrong way appears to be the same type of comment that is made about everyone associated with the case that speaks on behalf of the victim. Now the friends are criticized? No one associated with the victim is spared from criticism from prosecutor to students so traumatized by the murder that they discontinued their studies in Italy.

 

[otto]

What do you trust more? The knowledge that Hellmann rejected the prosecution's request? Or Nadeau's tweeting of two apparently mutually exclusive things?

And the Supreme Court ruled that Guede's *trial and sentencing* were legal, they did not give their imprimatur to the lower court's finding that three parties were involved in the murder. As others have surely tried to point out to you, AK and RS cannot be incriminated by a trial in which they had no opportunity to defend themselves. I realize that you are baying for their conviction at all costs, but this would be an uncivilized travesty of justice. I doubt even courts in North Korea would allow such a thing.

The Surpreme Court sentencing report states that Guede did not act alone. Nadeau says that this information will be inluded during deliberations. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you say is excluded, but I thought you said that "did not act alone" would be excluded. Nadeau says it is included ... so that's where I'm seeing a contradiction, but perhaps I misunderstood what you say was excluded.

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#rudyguede supreme court sentencing IS already entered into this appellate court docket. Will b part of deliberation no doubt. #amandaknox

 

[otto]

More falsehoods. Was Knox under house arrest? After all, these cynical bastards were following her around and interrogating her while telling her that she was not a suspect.

Were there roadblocks? Without question, AK and RS could have gotten in RS' Audi at any time before they were incarcerated and left for Germany.

Knox told her aunt during a recorded phone call on Nov 3 that she was not allowed to leave. That was raised in the last week again. I'll link it when I find it.

 

[js202]

Culture Clash

@ ... upthread that Mignini mentioned the vibrator. The word alone means little. However, the fact that Meredith was uncomfortable with Knox's display of sexuality (vibrator, condoms in clear plastic container hung in the bathroom) was probably not a secret. Knox not pitching in at the cottage was also mentioned way back at the beginning.

The relevance/implication is threefold; Meredith was uncomfortabe with this immodest and crass display (tells us something about the victim), there was tension between them (goes to motive) and Italians, generally modest (like the victim), would identify with Meredith in this dispute: to leave your vibrator on display in a shared accommodation bathroom, or not. Knox probably knew that Meredith was uncomfortable with her habits. She was not respectful of Meredith. She also did not keep up her responsibilities of taking her turn to clean the bathroom. Knox confirmed that there was no blood on the bathroom faucet at 5 PM the night before, so it got there at the time of the murder. How did her blood get there during that time period again?

Even though it is the flimsiest and most preposterous of assertions, please give us a link for Knox's confirmation that there was no blood on the faucet the previous night. I realize that Mignini has said this on numerous occasions, but I do not believe one word that man says. He is a lunatic.

The rest of what you write deconstructs itself.

 

[otto]

She is obviously speculating there, and I and others do not trust her judgement for obvious reasons.

Other than Barbie Nadeau's tweets, what other information is there regarding the decision? Why believe her tweets until they say something that doesn't fit well?

 

[js202]

Knox told her aunt during a recorded phone call on Nov 3 that she was not allowed to leave. That was raised in the last week again. I'll link it when I find it.

Unless there was some physical restraint, they could have driven away.

 

[SkewedView]

Dismissing the friends as catty and rubbing people the wrong way appears to be the same type of comment that is made about everyone associated with the case that speaks on behalf of the victim. Now the friends are criticized? No one associated with the victim is spared from criticism from prosecutor to students so traumatized by the murder that they discontinued their studies in Italy.

I wasn't dismissing the content of what she was saying, I was giving my honest impression of how her words come across in interviews. You also totally missed my point with regards to the leaving Italy thing - if we go just by how behavior might be interpreted, and make assumptions based on that, then everyone in this case (or just about any other case) comes off looking bad. She was the one essentially saying that AK is guilty because she didn't behave in a way that she approved of.


ETA: I'm still cranky for personal reasons. I'm going to disengage from debate from this post forward to avoid problems. Have a good night Otto.

 

[otto]

Even though it is the flimsiest and most preposterous of assertions, please give us a link for Knox's confirmation that there was no blood on the faucet the previous night. I realize that Mignini has said this on numerous occasions, but I do not believe one word that man says. He is a lunatic.

The rest of what you write deconstructs itself.

What's the alternative ... that he claimed "ooolala, there was a vibrator in the bathroom ~ snort"?

See Knox's court testimony for her statements about there being no blood in the bathroom the previous day.

 

[js202]

The Surpreme Court sentencing report states that Guede did not act alone. Nadeau says that this information will be inluded during deliberations. Perhaps I have misunderstood what you say is excluded, but I thought you said that "did not act alone" would be excluded. Nadeau says it is included ... so that's where I'm seeing a contradiction, but perhaps I misunderstood what you say was excluded.

BLNadeau Barbie Latza Nadeau
#rudyguede supreme court sentencing IS already entered into this appellate court docket. Will b part of deliberation no doubt. #amandaknox

Hellmann rejected the prosecution's request that the Supreme Court ruling have any pertinence in the case. I am missing what is unclear about that.

I also do not know how to make myself any clearer than what I wrote in my second paragraph. What the PMFers are hoping for is a pipe dream, and a misunderstanding of the legal system.

 

[otto]

Unless there was some physical restraint, they could have driven away.

That wouldn't have gone over too well - with Germany and Italy being part of the EU and handing over suspects without delay. The minute police contacted Knox and Sollecito by phone and realized they'd left the country, they'd have put out a warrant just like they did with Guede. Knox had to stay in the country and leaving would have looked like she was fleeing the jurisdiction during a murder investigation.

 

[js202]

What's the alternative ... that he claimed "ooolala, there was a vibrator in the bathroom ~ snort"?

See Knox's court testimony for her statements about there being no blood in the bathroom the previous day.

Show them to me. I do not believe that they have any meaning in this case.

Mignini's twisting of any such words is part and parcel of the assertion that -- in that she was a DNA and foot and fingerprint-removing wizard, who meticulously cleaned everything but the bathroom and hallway -- Knox was both an evil genius, and -- in that her memory and skills failed her profoundly and miserably in the hallway and the bathroom -- a hapless idiot.

 

[SkewedView]

That wouldn't have gone over too well - with Germany and Italy being part of the EU and handing over suspects without delay. The minute police contacted Knox and Sollecito by phone and realized they'd left the country, they'd have put out a warrant just like they did with Guede. Knox had to stay in the country and leaving would have looked like she was fleeing the jurisdiction during a murder investigation.

True. And even fleeing to the US really quick wouldn't have helped with regards to avoiding charges, due to the solid US-Italian extradition treaty. The only thing that might have helped AK is if she had emulated her surviving roomies and lawyered up immediately.

BTW, I don't doubt that she was asked to stick around (SOP in these types of investigations), I just don't remember that specific call, and hope to see the specifics if it's not too much trouble.

 

[js202]

That wouldn't have gone over too well - with Germany and Italy being part of the EU and handing over suspects without delay. The minute police contacted Knox and Sollecito by phone and realized they'd left the country, they'd have put out a warrant just like they did with Guede. Knox had to stay in the country and leaving would have looked like she was fleeing the jurisdiction during a murder investigation.

She most certainly could have -- and should have -- fled. Unlike Guede, the Perugian authorities had no physical evidence of Amanda Knox's involvement in any crime whatsoever. She could have sought asylum at the American embassy in Germany.

Now I'm going out to have some fun on a Saturday night. The girl is innocent. Get over it.