Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #20

[ohiogirl]

"In an exclusive interview with The Sunday Telegraph, Natalie Hayward described how a series of incidents in the run-up to Miss Kercher's death have convinced her that Knox - sentenced to 26 years for the brutal murder - should not be freed as a result of the appeal now nearing its conclusion in an Italian court."

Knox had only been in Perugia since early October "The two British women first met Knox when she took a room in early October in the hillside cottage where Miss Kercher lived. They helped her settle in, then all three went for lunch together."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...chers-friend-Perugia-can-be-a-dark-place.html

Well, if Natalie says it, I guess it must be so.

 

[ohiogirl]

Culture Clash

@ ... upthread that Mignini mentioned the vibrator. The word alone means little. However, the fact that Meredith was uncomfortable with Knox's display of sexuality (vibrator, condoms in clear plastic container hung in the bathroom) was probably not a secret. Knox not pitching in at the cottage was also mentioned way back at the beginning.

The relevance/implication is threefold; Meredith was uncomfortabe with this immodest and crass display (tells us something about the victim), there was tension between them (goes to motive) and Italians, generally modest (like the victim), would identify with Meredith in this dispute: to leave your vibrator on display in a shared accommodation bathroom, or not. Knox probably knew that Meredith was uncomfortable with her habits. She was not respectful of Meredith. She also did not keep up her responsibilities of taking her turn to clean the bathroom. Knox confirmed that there was no blood on the bathroom faucet at 5 PM the night before, so it got there at the time of the murder. How did her blood get there during that time period again?

Really?

 

[wasnt_me]

Otto, I can cite other cases where relatives or close friends thought a suspect was guilty of a crime based on "suspicious behavior" that later tuned out to mean nothing when the actual culprit was found. It means very little in the long run.

Something I find curious though - if Meredith's friends thought Amanda knowing that Meredith "bled to death" was so suspicious, why on earth wouldn't their next question be "How do you know that?". It would be a natural, and easy question to ask.

Since you mention her testimony upthread, you probably know that she explains knowing this from everyone at the scene talking about it.

That article highlights what little evidence of Knox's "Bad behavior" was actually witnessed. From the way this friend phrased things, it would seem that MK was the one annoyed with AK, not the other way around. I find it worth noting that the friend never said AK did anything TO MK, only that MK was becoming annoyed by AK.

I hardly see guitar stumming, sloppiness, and vibrators as a reason to kill. This friend doesn't recall MK ever saying she confronted AK about it. It might have happened, but from what I've studied AK, seemed taken aback to learn that people where annoyed by her. I don't believe I recall anyone, not the roommates, not the boyfriends, not the friends, saying that MK vocalized her annoyance TO AK. I have yet to read testimony or statements that assert that AK did something mean or harmful to MK in the days leading up to the murder. I don't even recall hearing that the two had argued about anything.

If anyone knows of a specific argument or confrontation, school me. Otherwise, I can hardly imagine that MK picked that night (when she was tired from being out all night and going to her friends' house earlier, and having laundry and studying to do) to suddenly "go off" on AK about these things, and that AK in turn ordered two men to sexually assault and murder MK for it, then steal her money and phones, but nothing else to make it look like a break-in. Sounds illogical.

I think if the friends and family really think AK did it, then they need to talk about solid "circumstantial evidence." I'd be more likely to consider what they say if they could tell specficially what these ladies didn't get along about, and if there was an actual confrontation, etc. Then If I get confirmation of that from the actual people living in the building, I'd believe it.

In many crimes of passion cases i've read, usually, there are events leading up to the murder. I'm talking arguments witnessed by others, restraining orders, police reports, the victim mentioning feeling threatened, etc. So I'm asking what chain of events can we link to the murder? Right now, we just hear that MK was generally annoyed and probably slowly fading out of her friendship with AK because of it.

I'd completely understand MK's view, IF AK was indeed being annoying. AK's family and friends have said that she can be annoying and igorant of how others feel about her. So for me, putting together the knowledge from the British pack, and from AK's loved ones, I see a scenerio where MK readily befriended AK, but after making friends with the British pack, AK's quirkiness became more obviously annoying. As MK gravitated to her new friends and her boyfriend, she was distancing herself from AK. This is evident in the fact that AK wanted to hook up for Halloween, but MK wasn't responsive to it.

I don't believe, that if the girls, MK and AK, were fighting with each other, that AK would have sought to hook up on Halloween. What I can believe is that MK had told her friends how annoying AK was, and they had agreed, and the pack had been talking about AK's annoyances and concluded they didn't want to hang around AK. Even if MK still kind of liked AK, I could see how slight peer pressure might have caused her to pull away. And I can see how Ak's ignorance of knowing when people are doing that, coupled with MK probably trying to be nice about it, would have led AK to not realize MK didn't really want to spend time with her anymore.

I don't put MK at fault for her feelings changing about AK, if that in fact happened. But what I don't correlate is how that culminated in murder. I really need Mk's friends' statements to see if there was a history of arguments between MK and AK because it's hard to picture how a first-time arument among roommates would get so outrageously out of hand.

 

[ohiogirl]

I'm sure that Meredith's friends remained in Italy until police cleared them. I don't think that the friend is saying that she believes Knox is guilty because Meredith was uncomfortable with the vibrator.

"Natalie Hayward described how a series of incidents in the run-up to Miss Kercher's death have convinced her that Knox - sentenced to 26 years for the brutal murder - should not be freed as a result of the appeal now nearing its conclusion in an Italian court.

"Now 25, she cited Knox's strange behaviour and apparent inside knowledge of the details of the murder in the hours after it was revealed, as well as her false accusations against a local bar-owner, as reasons for her belief.

In addition, she said tensions between the two women, who shared a flat, had been building up for weeks.

Miss Kercher was "frustrated" with the University of Washington student's refusal to do her share of the cleaning, and felt uncomfortable that Knox kept a vibrator in a transparent wash bag in their shared bathroom. Relations were not improved by Knox's insistence on strumming her guitar all the time, Miss Hayward added.

...

Miss Hayward and the other British girls were suspicious that Knox seemed to have knowledge of the crime scene, despite police saying she had not seen inside the bedroom, where Miss Kercher lay in a pool of blood with her throat cut.

...

That in itself doesn't mean she's the culprit, but when you put it with everything else..."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...chers-friend-Perugia-can-be-a-dark-place.html

what's the everything else?

 

[wasnt_me]

Really?

The problem is what I've already stated. There is a lot of conjecture going on about MK and AK's relationship. Where is the proof or witness accounts of these things that are being asserted about their relationship? I believe AK sought to prove that they got along through her computer files and pictures, but wonder of wonders, her computer was fried.

Again I read about feelings that MK allegedly had, and knowledge that people are saying AK "probably" had about MK's alleged feelings. The overall tone of it seems to be that MK had the problems with AK, not the other way around. SO why is MK dead, and not AK? Why does AK have no battle wounds on her, if MK was so annoyed by AK? This perplexes me.

Additionally, where's the proof of these ill feelings and tension between the girls?

 

[ohiogirl]

What is he a victim of and what charges has he brought? What does his lawyer say?

He is a victim of an over zealous prosecutor that bristles at any dissension with his opinion of what happened to MK.
If he is so certain of the evidence, why bother to harrass anyone who disagrees with him?
The evidence should speak for itself, and it doesn't.
Hence, the libel charges and the harrassment of a dissenting blogger.
imo

 

[ohiogirl]

The problem is what I've already stated. There is a lot of conjecture going on about MK and AK's relationship. Where is the proof or witness accounts of these things that are being asserted about their relationship? I believe AK sought to prove that they got along through her computer files and pictures, but wonder of wonders, her computer was fried.

Again I read about feelings that MK allegedly had, and knowledge that people are saying AK "probably" had about MK's alleged feelings. The overall tone of it seems to be that MK had the problems with AK, not the other way around. SO why is MK dead, and not AK? Why does AK have no battle wounds on her, if MK was so annoyed by AK? This perplexes me.

Additionally, where's the proof of these ill feelings and tension between the girls?

There is only conjecture and opinion.
and cartwheels, vibrators, and lingerie buying.

 

[wasnt_me]

See? I got distracted by the vibrators and straight up forgot about Cartwheels and lingerie! :great:

Maybe that's what Mig is afraid of and why he told the jury not to pay attention to new news reports. Does anyone recall him renouncing the media during the first trial when the pink bathroom photos were released?

 

[ohiogirl]

Don't feel bad, it has happened to a lot of people.

 

[otto]

The problem is what I've already stated. There is a lot of conjecture going on about MK and AK's relationship. Where is the proof or witness accounts of these things that are being asserted about their relationship? I believe AK sought to prove that they got along through her computer files and pictures, but wonder of wonders, her computer was fried.

Again I read about feelings that MK allegedly had, and knowledge that people are saying AK "probably" had about MK's alleged feelings. The overall tone of it seems to be that MK had the problems with AK, not the other way around. SO why is MK dead, and not AK? Why does AK have no battle wounds on her, if MK was so annoyed by AK? This perplexes me.

Additionally, where's the proof of these ill feelings and tension between the girls?

Is eye witness testimony from a friend of Meredith's that met Knox not sufficient? I think that she was one of the friends at the lunch where Knox burst into loud, odd song - doing that Amelie thang.

 

[ohiogirl]

Is eye witness testimony from a friend of Meredith's that met Knox not sufficient? I think that she was one of the friends at the lunch where Knox burst into loud, odd song - doing that Amelie thang.

darn it, guilty again.

 

[otto]

darn it, guilty again.

The friend that was interviewed stated what she had been told and what she had seen. In what way should this information be corroborated?

 

[ohiogirl]

Is eye witness testimony from a friend of Meredith's that met Knox not sufficient? I think that she was one of the friends at the lunch where Knox burst into loud, odd song - doing that Amelie thang.

Eye witness testimony? Did she see the murder?

 

[ohiogirl]

Is eye witness testimony from a friend of Meredith's that met Knox not sufficient? I think that she was one of the friends at the lunch where Knox burst into loud, odd song - doing that Amelie thang.

Singing that Amelie thang is definitely proof of murder.
I wonder why that is not a part of this appeal?

 

[js202]

The prosecution initially presented to their own courts enough 'evidence' for probable cause in the US (it's not exactly a hard goal to reach). That's enough to trigger the treaty, and AK is no Senator's son to warrant any efforts by the US State Dept. to protect her.

Seriously, the State Dept. is well known for leaving the average Joe out to dry, and contrary to conspiracy theories regarding the Knox/Mellas families' influence, AK is easily in the average Joe category.

Dang, there I go debating again. At least I managed to avoid any snarkiness, I think.

Glad to give you the opportunity to debate in a way that I'm sure feels broad-minded and ecumenical, but, no.

The US State Department is under no illusions about the corruption inherent in the Italian polity. Unless you can give me a relevant example of precedent from the last couple decades relating to Italy, I'll call BS. And continue to assert that, minus the retroactive kerfuffle of pulling strings to extract her from prison, we would have protected one of our own in the face of these backward, fascist provincials.

 

[Nova]

BBM

Such a point of contradiction to me. Upset over a toy vibrator yet borrows condoms

Am I the only one who doesn't believe the "vibrator-and-condoms-in-a-clear-bag" story? Oh, it might have happened once and maybe MK mentioned it.

But what purpose do those items serve in a bathroom, especially since AK and RS were having sex mostly at HIS apartment?

Sounds like "mean girl" talk to me. (So, no, I didn't think "catty" was too harsh.)

The fact is AK and MK didn't know each other long enough for normal roommate tensions to build to a homicidal rage. And AK hadn't been around for most of the week before the murder. So when was there time for friction with MK?

 

[Allusonz]

Am I the only one who doesn't believe the "vibrator-and-condoms-in-a-clear-bag" story? Oh, it might have happened once and maybe MK mentioned it.

But what purpose do those items serve in a bathroom, especially since AK and RS were having sex mostly at HIS apartment?

Sounds like "mean girl" talk to me. (So, no, I didn't think "catty" was too harsh.)

The fact is AK and MK didn't know each other long enough for normal roommate tensions to build to a homicidal rage. And AK hadn't been around for most of the week before the murder. So when was there time for friction with MK?

Count me in it makes for great fiction :innocent:

 

[Allusonz]

I am surprised no one has commented on Comodi's cooking lesson recipes and all.

Seems that a number of things were measured wrong by Stephanoni. The abundant amount of DNA on the bra clasp which in testimony were measured in litres when they actually were milliliters. Those pesky aphids I mean alleles were handpicked. You certainly don't want anyone to know how many aphids there are as long as dinner is placed on the table in time. Seems that the oven temperature for the knife was too low but no problem she simply cranked that oven temperature up. Ingredients were stored in the wrong containers . Those spices really don't like plastic bags much. That is ok, they are made in the USA. Most chefs insist that you simply must carefully inspect and select produce. What the heck everyone wanted in on the action so they all helped. Produce should be washed carefully to avoid food poisoning. Who cares how many get sick. Who cares how old the ingredients are, no one can date them anyway. Darn, those recipes simply did not taste right. No problemo, she made up brand new ones. Lets experiment. Take a few spices out; add a After all who is going to find out. To show the extreme care that goes into creating this feast it was decided to televise live for all to see :giggle:

 

[Allusonz]

I am as well surprised that no one has commented on whether they feel that Comodi moved the TOD back. Now it appears the cell phones were in someones pocket. Can't blame the cat after all

 

[Allusonz]

Knox was a witness, not a suspect. She was told to be available to police durig the early stages of the investigation per her police recorded phone call with her aunt. She did not stay in Italy to help police, as is often claimed.

Nice try. Until they took her passport or arrested her she was free to go