Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[HatesSociopaths]

Count Niccolò Capponi as quoted by Douglas Preston in Monster of Florence

Dietrologia´said Count Niccolò. “This is the only Italian word you need to know to understand the Monster of Florence investigation.”…”Dietro—behind. Logia—the study of.´ … “Dietrologia is the idea that the obvious thing cannot be the truth. There is always something hidden behind, dietro.

"It isn’t quite what you Americans call conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theory implies theory, something uncertain, a possibility. The dietrologist deals only in fact. This is how it really is. Aside from football, dietrologia is the national sport in Italy. Everyone is an expert at what’s really going on, even… how do you Americans say it?...even if they don’t know jack ****.”

 

[sherlockh]

Then you need to expand your reasoning to include this earlier similar case in regards to Mignini: Douglas Preston, the monster of Florence case.

*Snipped*. Of course I don't. The Mignini gossips have been refuted a long time ago. Their source was the defense lawyers and a certain group of Knox supporters. There never was any truth in that. Besides he never was the only prosecutor anyway. Douglas Preston is a writer of fictional stories. He never had anything to do with this trial.

 

[SMK]

*Snipped*. Of course I don't. The Mignini gossips have been refuted a long time ago. Their source was the defense lawyers and a certain group of Knox supporters. There never was any truth in that. Besides he never was the only prosecutor anyway. Douglas Preston is a writer of fictional stories. He never had anything to do with this trial.

Mignini really was convicted and sentenced to prison time; 20 of his indictments actually were thrown out. This was in the international press.

 

[sherlockh]

Mignini really was convicted and sentenced to prison time; 20 of his indictments actually were thrown out. This was in the international press.

What has that to do with this case? I was referring to the 'occult' and 'sex orgy' scenarios that were claimed to have come from him. He never said those things.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

What has that to do with this case? I was referring to the 'occult' and 'sex orgy' scenarios that were claimed to have come from him. He never said those things.

I am specifically referring to the interrogation which led to the Knox "confession." Mignini was present. He also signed her arrest warrant.

Mignini was convicted in a court in Florence Jan. 22, 2010 of official misconduct and illegal wiretaps in connection with the Monster of Florence case. The interrogation methods were seriously flawed in that case as well.

 

[SMK]

What has that to do with this case? I was referring to the 'occult' and 'sex orgy' scenarios that were claimed to have come from him. He never said those things.

Preston and Spezi had been accused of such, with no foundation whatever, by Mignini. So had 18 other journalists and officials. When hearing of the 3-on-1 sex game near Halloween theory coming from Mignini, Preston smelled a rat. Who can blame him? I think Preston had had enough dealings with Mignini to recognize his thoughtprints. He knew Mignini spoke to a priest and a psychic for help with the former case. Not tough to conjecture, "It is happening again". You seriously question what Mignini's precedents and professional character have to do with the case?

 

[Sonata]

What has that to do with this case? I was referring to the 'occult' and 'sex orgy' scenarios that were claimed to have come from him. He never said those things.

Mignini's theory was that of a sex game gone wrong. He posited that Knox and Sollecito had tried to involve Kercher in a sex game and when she had refused they attacked her.

 

[sherlockh]

I am specifically referring to the interrogation which led to the Knox "confession." Mignini was present. He also signed her arrest warrant.

Mignini was convicted in a court in Florence Jan. 22, 2010 of official misconduct and illegal wiretaps in connection with the Monster of Florence case. The interrogation methods were seriously flawed in that case as well.

Mignini was not present during the interrogation. He was only present during AK's 2nd statement which was a voluntary statement without interrogation. AK was convicted for her false accusation and her sentence has been increased to 3 years, so there wasn't any wrongful interrogation in the first place.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

I don't know why you keep mention sleep deprived state, because even the defense didn't claim this. How can you possibly know how many hours AK slept in a day? AK went to school, and she was doing her homework at the police office. How sleepy can you be if you are doing your homework? When her boyfriend dropped her alibi, I am sure this woke her up just fine. If you look at especially her 2nd voluntarily statement, this was filled with precise and accurate details. Nobody was sleeping there. She was convicted to 3 years for this. This is not a minor offense.

It was also a handy "face saver" for Italy having already imprisoned her for those years.

She had no motive for trying to falsely accuse him. There is an interrogation method where you get the suspect to imagine how the crime may have been carried out. They had gotten the bar owner's name from her text messages, he was black, they had found a black man's hair at the scene, and they probably suggested he was involved, got her to imagine it, language breakdown, etc. and the mess ensued.

 

[sherlockh]

Mignini's theory was that of a sex game gone wrong. He posited that Knox and Sollecito had tried to involve Kercher in a sex game and when she had refused they attacked her.

That is right. Some kind of sex game (to them at least).

 

[Sonata]

Mignini was not present during the interrogation. He was only present during AK's 2nd statement which was a voluntary statement without interrogation. AK was convicted for her false accusation and her sentence has been increased to 3 years, so there wasn't any wrongful interrogation in the first place.

I don't think it was concluded that there was no wrongful investigation, but that it couldn't be proven. Since Knox had already retracted her statement about them hitting her, this made it hard to argue that. And since there was no film record of the interrogation I am assuming (yes, assuming, I make no claims of ultimate knowledge!) that they could not meet the burden of proof on an accusation of malpractice.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Mignini was not present during the interrogation. He was only present during AK's 2nd statement which was a voluntary statement without interrogation. AK was convicted for her false accusation and her sentence has been increased to 3 years, so there wasn't any wrongful interrogation in the first place.

I can link you to two articles by a news website that say he was present. Can you link me to one that says he was not?

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/05/16/news/update-article-amanda-knoxs-tv-interview-inaccurate

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/02/19/news/parents-amanda-knox-indicted-libel-supporters-cry

 

[SMK]

Back in 2008, The New York Times and The New York Post reported Mignini suspecting occult activities Re Knox, Sollecito. And this from a UK publication:

Italian prosecutors yesterday accused Amanda Knox of stabbing to death the Leeds Univeristy exchange student Meredith Kercher in a satanic ritual with the complicity of her former boyfriend and an Ivory Coast drifter.

At a committal hearing in the Umbrian town of Perugia, prosecutors Giuliano Mignini and Manuela Comodi gave their most detailed reconstruction of the sexual attack on and murder of Kercher, 21, on the night of November 1 last year.

They alleged the Seattle-born Knox had stabbed Kercher in the throat while Rudy Guede, of the Ivory Coast, strangled her and Italian student Raffaele Sollecito held her. The three allegedly killed Kercher because she did not want to take part in “a perverse game of group sex”. All three deny murder.

The prosecutors “laid out a scenario like from some crime novel”, Sollecito’s lawyer Luca Maori said. He added that they “alleged it was some kind of satanic rite, with Amanda allegedly first touching Meredith with the point of a knife, then slitting her throat, while Sollecito held her by the shoulders, from behind, Guede held her by an arm” and tried to sexually assault her.

An emotional Knox, 21, speaking at the beginning of the hearing, told the court in English: “Meredith was my friend and I had no reason to kill her. I am innocent. I wasn’t in the house that night. If I said the opposite before, it was because I was forced to do so by pressure from the police.” She claimed police told her that if she did not confess, she would be jailed for 30 years.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4968044.ece

 

[HatesSociopaths]

That is right. Some kind of sex game (to them at least).

Is there an earlier similar case to this "sex game" - remotely similar?

"There is nothing new under the sun. It has all been done before." -Sherlock Holmes

 

[sherlockh]

I can link you to two articles by a news website that say he was present. Can you link me to one that says he was not?

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2010/05/16/news/update-article-amanda-knoxs-tv-interview-inaccurate

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2011/02/19/news/parents-amanda-knox-indicted-libel-supporters-cry

Those reports are false. He wasn't present and there never was a 15 hour interrogation. Trial transcripts are available on PMF. AK even lied about it herself during questioning.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

AK: The declarations were taken against my will. And so, everything that
I said, was said in confusion and under pressure, and, because they were
suggested by the public minister.

CP: Excuse me, but at 1:45, the pubblico ministero was not there, there
was only the judicial police.

AK: Ha. They also were pressuring me.

 

[Madeleine74]

Since there was no recording of the interrogations, whatever one believes AK or RS said cannot be independently verified. We are left to either imagine what was said, or take Mignini, a known liar and obstructor of justice/a convicted prosecutor at his word. That's not good enough and not a high enough standard.

Until or unless there is verification, a word-for-word transcript of the interrogation, it remains as untrusted. If that's all they've got (and at this point, it is), then as "evidence," it is inadequate.

"Someone said that someone heard AK say that she...." nope, not good enough to convict. It's a rumor when it's 3rd person.

What is left is contaminated/not properly processed crime scene + magic DNA processing laughed at by every International standard + unknown/unverifiable statements and interrogation.

No one should feel comfortable about convicting based on rumors and theories. Only verifiable, unimpeachable facts. Those are absent in this case.

 

[sherlockh]

Back in 2008, The New York Times and The New York Post reported Mignini suspecting occult activities Re Knox, Sollecito. And this from a UK publication:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article4968044.ece

The article clearly states that Sollecito’s lawyer Luca Maori claims that they alleged (as if). The words come from Maori. Not from Mignini.

ETA: I posted this part of his interview with CNN before.

1’03” CNN: You’ve never said that Meredith’s death was a satanic rite?
1’08” Mignini: I have never said that. I have never understood who has and continues to say that. I read, there was a reporter, – I don’t know his name, I mention it because I noticed it, – who continues to repeat this claim that, perhaps, knowing full well that it’s not like that. I have never said that there might have been a satanic rite. I’ve never said it, so I would like to know who made it up. This is a conspiracy, a fantasy, to my detriment though, to my detriment. Simply a sexual act. And maybe I have always said, I maintained this in the first-instance trial, there was a relationship which deteriorated between the two girls. I’ve always maintained that. I’ll tell you this because…

 

[HatesSociopaths]

Those reports are false. He wasn't present and there never was a 15 hour interrogation. Trial transcripts are available on PMF. AK even lied about it herself during questioning.

http://perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=165

He was present at the 5:45 interrogation however, which is the important one as that is where the "confession" was gotten.

CDV: I was asking to speak about the use of the transcripts of November 6.
"Peregrina" [bizarre] -- now that she answered, you see there is no more
artifice or impediment, we can talk. One thing is, that the declarations--
the sommarie informazioni testimoniali of 1:45 given without the pubblico
ministero, and the spontaneous declarations of 5:45 with the pubblico
ministero, should be correctly considered as constitutive elements and
body of evidence as for being objective elements in the crime of slander.

This is what happened in that interrogation:

AK: It's difficult for me to say that one specific person said one specific
thing. It was the fact that there were all these little suggestions, and
someone was saying that there was the telephone, then there was the fact that...
then more than anything what made me try to imagine something was someone
saying to me "Maybe you're confused, maybe you're confused and you should
try to remember something different. Try to find these memories that
obviously you have somehow lost. You have to try to remember them. So I
was there thinking, but what could I have forgotten? And I was thinking,
what have I forgotten? what have I forgotten? and they were shouting
"Come on, come on, come on, remember, remember, remember," and boom! on
my head. [Amanda slaps herself on the back of the head: End of video segment]
"Remember!" And I was like -- Mamma Mia! and then boom! [slaps head again]
"Remember!"

GCM: The pubblico ministero is asking you, you said that the two blows were
given to me by someone whose name I don't know. The pubblico ministero is
asking you firstly if you can give a description of the person who hit you,
if you saw her, and if you can give us a description. The second question --

AK: So, when I -- the person who was conducting the interrogation --

GCM: That was the second question! You're starting with the second question,
that's fine, go ahead, go ahead.

AK: Oh, sorry...

GCM: Go on, go on. The person who was conducting the interrogation...

AK: Well, there were lots and lots of people who were asking me questions, but
the person who had started talking with me was a policewoman with long
hair, chestnut brown hair, but I don't know her. Then in the circle of
people who were around me, certain people asked me questions, for example
there was a man who was holding my telephone, and who was literally
shoving the telephone into my face, shouting "Look at this telephone!
Who is this? Who did you want to meet?" Then there were others, for instance
this woman who was leading, was the same person who at one point was
standing behind me, because they kept moving, they were really surrounding
me and on top of me. I was on a chair, then the interpreter was also sitting
on a chair, and everyone else was standing around me, so I didn't see
who gave me the first blow because it was someone behind me, but then I
turned around and saw that woman, and she gave me another blow to the head.

AK: All right. It seems to me that the thoughts of the people standing around
me, there were so many people, and they suggested things to me in the sense that
they would ask questions like: "Okay, you met someone!" No, I didn't.
They would say "Yes you did, because we have this telephone here, that
says that you wanted to meet someone. You wanted to meet him." No, I don't
remember that. "Well, you'd better remember, because if not we'll put
you in prison for 30 years." But I don't remember! "Maybe it was him that
you met? Or him? You can't remember?" It was this kind of suggestion.

GCM: When you say they said "Maybe you met him?", did they specify names?

AK: Well, the important fact was this message to Patrick, they were very
excited about it. So they wanted to know if I had received a message from
him --

AK: It was because of the fact that they were saying that I apparently had
met someone and they said this because of the message, and they were saying
"Are you sure you don't remember meeting THIS person, because you wrote
this message."

GCM: In this message, was there the name of the person it was meant for?

AK: No, it was the message I wrote to my boss. The one that said "Va bene.
Ci vediamo piu tardi. Buona serata."

GCM: But it could have been a message to anyone. Could you see from the message
to whom it was written?

AK: Actually, I don't know if that information is in the telephone. But I told
them that I had received a message from Patrick, and they looked for it in
the telephone, but they couldn't find it, but they found the one I sent to
him.

AK: To the person I had written to, precisely. And they told me that I knew,
and that I didn't want to tell. And that I didn't want to tell because I
didn't remember or because I was a stupid liar. Then they kept on about
this message, that they were literally shoving in my face saying "Look
what a stupid liar you are, you don't even remember this!" At first, I
didn't even remember writing that message. But there was this interpreter
next to me who kept saying "Maybe you don't remember, maybe you don't
remember, but try," and other people were saying "Try, try, try to remember
that you met someone, and I was there hearing "Remember, remember, remember,"
and then there was this person behind me who -- it's not that she actually
really physically hurt me, but she frightened me...

 

[SMK]

The article clearly states that Sollecito’s lawyer Luca Maori claims that they alleged (as if). The words come from Maori. Not from Mignini.

ETA: I posted this part of his interview with CNN before.

Okie. But why should I disbelieve that Mignini did have such fantasies in his professional history, which drove him to error and to criminal culpability? There is something there, there is a foundation for it.

 

[sherlockh]

Preston and Spezi had been accused of such, with no foundation whatever, by Mignini. So had 18 other journalists and officials. When hearing of the 3-on-1 sex game near Halloween theory coming from Mignini, Preston smelled a rat. Who can blame him? I think Preston had had enough dealings with Mignini to recognize his thoughtprints. He knew Mignini spoke to a priest and a psychic for help with the former case. Not tough to conjecture, "It is happening again". You seriously question what Mignini's precedents and professional character have to do with the case?

You are comparing a long time prosecutor with a fictional writer. I think I rather believe the prosecutor. All these claims about priests and psychics are made up by the fictional writer.