Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #3

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"We have points of being pulled over and being at Subway with the border patrol seeing us there. It just, you know, shows my story that, yeah, David and I were there together, we were at the boat launch together, you know, we had got stopped and Subway and that, you know, everything happened exactly the way I've been telling you guys."

~~~~~~~~~~~


her story ...

none of this supports her conflicting statements about what transpired on the lake - so what if a bunch of people saw them on their way there? she's deflecting (again)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Since the alleged attack, Tiffany has returned to Falcon Lake. She said the visit was difficult.

"It was hard. I didn't know what to really expect, just the visions of what happened that day of us heading in towards the church and then us heading back from there, or me heading back from there. It was -- it was a rough day. I think it was hard on all of us, the whole family."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

visions ...

we have 'visions' when we're imagining how something might happen

we have actual memories when we're re-experiencing something traumatic

<modsnip> IMO
 
Random thought.

In one interview Tiffany said David would have always kept her safe and in another she said they had discussed what they would do if they were set upon by pirates on the lake.

Apart from THAT obvious contradiction, I wonder why, when they were pulled over by the troopers, David never mentioned that they were planning to visit the church on the Mexico side. Nope--he said, "I figure we'll just play around for a little bit."

IMO someone so concerned for his tiny dancer's safety would have told the troopers that they were planning to go take pictures at the Guerrero Viejo church on the Mexico side, and ask the trooper's opinion if they'd be safe in doing so.

Really? You think he would be admitting to the trooper they were planning to cross the border into Mexico? I don't think so.
 
If she really understands this border issue I believe she knows there will not be any justice for her husband because they will never find the people who did it nor any evidence of the crime to try them with, IMHO. She is concerned for border patrol - to get these murderers off the lake and out of the rest of the US border. Perhaps she sees the death of her husband as a political issue.....i.e. if the border were not in the state it is in, the incident would not have happened.

Would jumping up and down for heads to roll and blood to spill really help this situation? This is much bigger than just Tiffany and David Hartley, and I think she understands that. :twocents:

All due respect IWannaKnow, I think many of us, including myself, may be tempted to get pulled into this mind set. While I agree there is a border issue and Mexico is awash in turmoil, this case is not about that....as much as "they" springboard off of it to make it exactly that. He was allegedly murdered by pirates, cartels, baby zetas, etc; when in fact, we have no proof of that, nor do we have any fact that criminal foul play truly ever took place. It's total speculation from both sides at this point, because absolutely nothing has been fruitful as far as an investigation. Maybe I'm back to my frustration level again, but it truly is a travesty for David's family and any inkling of justice.

I was very disappointed with Dr Phil's show because it showed he had jumped onto the political band wagon of this also.

I don't know, I just feel like this case is an analogy to a baby spilling pudding or something and then playing swirlies and paddy cake with it....although you can pat it and prick it, it never gets to the right consistency to place it neatly in a pan, bake it and have it turn into anything. :banghead:
 
Random thought.

In one interview Tiffany said David would have always kept her safe and in another she said they had discussed what they would do if they were set upon by pirates on the lake.

Apart from THAT obvious contradiction, I wonder why, when they were pulled over by the troopers, David never mentioned that they were planning to visit the church on the Mexico side. Nope--he said, "I figure we'll just play around for a little bit."

IMO someone so concerned for his tiny dancer's safety would have told the troopers that they were planning to go take pictures at the Guerrero Viejo church on the Mexico side, and ask the trooper's opinion if they'd be safe in doing so.

I agree...I would think if he did that much research and was very interested in it's history, he would have been glad to share that enthusiam as well as in telling exactly where he was going and what his plans were. I would have asked their insight to any possible safety problems too and taken the opportunity for some good, reliable advice in keeping myself and wife safe. Somethings off......................
 
"We have points of being pulled over and being at Subway with the border patrol seeing us there. It just, you know, shows my story that, yeah, David and I were there together, we were at the boat launch together, you know, we had got stopped and Subway and that, you know, everything happened exactly the way I've been telling you guys."

~~~~~~~~~~~


her story ...

none of this supports her conflicting statements about what transpired on the lake - so what if a bunch of people saw them on their way there? she's deflecting (again)

~~~~~~~~~~~

Since the alleged attack, Tiffany has returned to Falcon Lake. She said the visit was difficult.

"It was hard. I didn't know what to really expect, just the visions of what happened that day of us heading in towards the church and then us heading back from there, or me heading back from there. It was -- it was a rough day. I think it was hard on all of us, the whole family."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

visions ...

we have 'visions' when we're imagining how something might happen

we have actual memories when we're re-experiencing something traumatic

<modsnip> IMO

This snippet of her interview sounds like a power point presentation to me... lol....wish, wish...wonder if any investigators have ever tried letting the "interviewee" give a visual rendering along with being hooked up to LDT apparatus? Hmmmm...that might be interesting.
 
Really? You think he would be admitting to the trooper they were planning to cross the border into Mexico? I don't think so.


Why not? As has been pointed out many times on this thread, it was perfectly legal for them to cross over to the Mexico side of the lake on their jet skis.

If they landed, I am pretty sure THAT would be illegal, but we don't know that they did.
 
If she really understands this border issue I believe she knows there will not be any justice for her husband because they will never find the people who did it nor any evidence of the crime to try them with, IMHO. :

well, if she really understood the border issues she would never have crossed the border and put herself or her husband in such grave danger.

So if that is your argument I don't understand it.

If you think she just figured it out after the fact, then that first time she ever spoke on camera or in print she should have been outraged and begging for justice....until she schooled herself on the border issues better.

<modsnip>
 
People do dangerous things all the time.
It's the spice of life.

Sadly, they paid a huge price for it. DH lost his life and TH lost her husband. That does not make TH any more guilty than anybody else that do things that are a little edgey.

She knows her husband is gone and that there will be no justice for him.

The blame here should be put on the thugs that did this.

JMO
 
People do dangerous things all the time.
It's the spice of life.

Sadly, they paid a huge price for it. DH lost his life and TH lost her husband. That does not make TH any more guilty than anybody else that do things that are a little edgey.

She knows her husband is gone and that there will be no justice for him.

The blame here should be put on the thugs that did this.

JMO

except we have no body, no jet ski, no thugs, and no witnesses...
 
except we have no body, no jet ski, no thugs, and no witnesses...

So? That means Mexican pirates could not have done this?

The same arguement could be made the other way too.
 
Except we have no body, no jet ski, no thugs, and no witnesses...

I am having difficulty convincing myself that this was NOT a concerted and collaborative effort by TH, DH and law enforcement to draw attention to border violence. This conspiracy might very well have included those who stopped the Hartley's for expired tags as well as the witness who has been shrouded in mystery somewhat.

Perhaps this 'possible fake shooting' on Falcon Lake was originally planned to be a small local news event, but got out of control falling under the bright light of the national media. Maybe DH was working as a paid informant and was convinced to take the next step and create a media firestorm bringing more funding and resources to the area.

But what a risky endeavor this would be with some serious consequences.
 
Came across this today:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_x1-wcF5Yc[/ame]

New (to me at least) funky details:

1. At about 2:31 Tiffany says that when the pirates came back she had to put David "back in the water."

Oh? When did she get him OUT of the water?

2. When asked if she believes Tiffany's story, David's mother says yes but shakes her head no. David's sister shakes her head both ways. David's father remains expressionless and motionless. Well, well, well.

<modsnip>

4. At about 5:46...why the long pause in the sentence, "Unfortunately, I have no..................proof." Hmm.
 
<modsnip>

http://www.bringdavidhome.com

What are the donations for, if everyone from TH to Sigi to Stratfor has opined that his body will never be found?

It's not as if she has funeral expenses to pay for.

A reward for the return of his body? See above. All the big players have said it'll never be found.

To support his widow? Didn't she just go home to her family's 20-acre ranch? Where her father said anything she wants, she gets?

<modsnip>
 
<modsnip>

http://www.bringdavidhome.com

What are the donations for, if everyone from TH to Sigi to Stratfor has opined that his body will never be found?

It's not as if she has funeral expenses to pay for.

A reward for the return of his body? See above. All the big players have said it'll never be found.

To support his widow? Didn't she just go home to her family's 20-acre ranch? Where her father said anything she wants, she gets?

<modsnip>

yes why do you need lots of money to call Mexico every now and then and ask, "did you find him yet?"

<modsnip> the only thing that works on that page is the "donate now" button. :)
 
yes why do you need lots of money to call Mexico every now and then and ask, "did you find him yet?"

<modsnip>...the only thing that works on that page is the "donate now" button. :)

<modsnip>

So I'm just curious, is anyone here who believes Tiffany's "story" willing to donate? And if so, to what end do you think your donation will go?
 
So? That means Mexican pirates could not have done this?

The same arguement could be made the other way too.

done what? :) In all seriousness the pirates would never be convicted in any USA court of law when there is no body, no jet ski, no thugs, and no witnesses...
 
done what? :) In all seriousness the pirates would never be convicted in any USA court of law when there is no body, no jet ski, no thugs, and no witnesses...


No evidence of a crime at all, in fact, except the word of a witness whose story keeps changing and who now has her hand out asking for $.
 
No evidence of a crime at all, in fact, except the word of a witness whose story keeps changing and who now has her hand out asking for $.

I wonder who is behind that website? it's not clear yet. it could be an opportunist or it could be her. We will find out soon enough.
 

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