GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #4

[MrsWatson]

Thank you for the lovely compliment, @BetteDavisEyes!

You're in the area, what kind of feeling is there locally? It's been many years since I lived in Livingston County, but I recall Oakland County as being widely diverse in just about every aspect. I think they can find a jury there, but I also think it wouldn't matter where in the State they went, there really isn't any reasonable doubt to raise, imo. Only the insanity defense. To keep within TOS and being as tactful as possible, I also think there is a possibility that this trial is going to turn out to be even more political as well and jury deliberations could be very messy.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thank you for the lovely compliment, @BetteDavisEyes!

You're in the area, what kind of feeling is there locally? It's been many years since I lived in Livingston County, but I recall Oakland County as being widely diverse in just about every aspect. I think they can find a jury there, but I also think it wouldn't matter where in the State they went, there really isn't any reasonable doubt to raise, imo. Only the insanity defense. To keep within TOS and being as tactful as possible, I also think there is a possibility that this trial is going to turn out to be even more political as well and jury deliberations could be very messy.

I agree with the Judge that Oakland County is geographically vast with diverse demographics in terms of educational level, economic status, religious affiliation, and political allegiance. I'm sure that some of the issues to be addressed during the Crumbley's trial are sensitive to many, if not most prospective jurors. I don't think moving the trial out of Oakland County would have made a difference because the case has garnered world-wide notoriety. Hopefully, both sides will work to seat a jury that will be fair and impartial, and who will reach a verdict based on the evidence presented during the trial without regard to their personal or political preferences. JMO

 

[NicMed329]

The recent decisions raise a lot of questions.

I would think it would be the prosecution that would call Ethan, not the defense. I can't imagine what he could say that would be positive about his parents. He'd approached both of them and indicated he was struggling and was dismissed. And the whole insanity plea, since his trial is later, could it result in an automatic appeal for his parents, if they are all convicted?

Is the defense doing this as a stunt? "Oh look at our broken son. We're not guilty, he's just broken." Do they hope to muster some sympathy?

This is MOO, but I think this parents were done with Ethan, even before the shooting. He was a big time suck for them. They knew he had problems and didn't want to deal with it. But they bought him a gun. Am I just a dark soul, that I think they didn't care if he committed suicide? Maybe it never occurred to them he'd be a school shooter instead? So many of their actions show just zero concern at all about Ethan. The fleeing, hiring private counsel while he has court appointed, etc etc etc.

Throw in the school and all those issues. The other more recent horrifying shooting in Uvalde and the gun law debates going on will also flavor the trial and the minds of the jurors.

This is a tragic case, but I think it will also set some precedents, legally.

MOO

I work in inpt psych and i think one of the things that is often overlooked when we talk about suicidality, primarily in white young men, that this is a large indicator of a mass shooting. There’s been pretty significant research that shows men who are suicidal often act it out in a homicidal manner.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I work in inpt psych and i think one of the things that is often overlooked when we talk about suicidality, primarily in white young men, that this is a large indicator of a mass shooting. There’s been pretty significant research that shows men who are suicidal often act it out in a homicidal manner.

Can you share some links to that research? I'm curious about the WHY. It can't just be a quest to be infamous.

 

[NicMed329]

Can you share some links to that research? I'm curious about the WHY. It can't just be a quest to be infamous.

I posted a few articles yesterday but it was deleted because i think they thought i was politicizing it (one of the articles involved politics). It explains in the articles the WHY you are asking about and also how suicide prevention can help with mass shootings. Try googling mass murder and suicide connection and a lot will pop up.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I posted a few articles yesterday but it was deleted because i think they thought i was politicizing it (one of the articles involved politics). It explains in the articles the WHY you are asking about and also how suicide prevention can help with mass shootings. Try googling mass murder and suicide connection and a lot will pop up.

I saw your links before they were deleted. Thanks for following up!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Two Oxford staffers put on paid leave after school shooting, emails show

Two Oxford High School staffers who met with suspected teen shooter Ethan Crumbley, were placed on a paid leave one week after the incident.

www.detroitnews.com

Two Oxford High School staffers who met with suspected teen shooter Ethan Crumbley hours before he allegedly opened fire inside the school, killing four students and injuring seven others, were placed on a paid leave one week after the incident, according to emails obtained by The Detroit News.

Dean of Students Nicholas Ejak and school counselor Shawn Hopkins were informed in writing by David Pass, assistant superintendent of human resources at Oxford Community Schools, that each would be placed on paid non-disciplinary administrative leave on Dec. 7. School was suspended after the Nov. 30 and restarted on Jan. 10 at the middle school.

"The District experienced a tragic event on Nov. 30, 2021 that resulted in the deaths of 4 student and injuries to 7 others. You were involved with a meeting with the student and his parents and the assessment of the student on Nov. 30, 2021," the email states to Ejak...

 

[WingsOverTX]

Two Oxford staffers put on paid leave after school shooting, emails show

Two Oxford High School staffers who met with suspected teen shooter Ethan Crumbley, were placed on a paid leave one week after the incident.

www.detroitnews.com

Two Oxford High School staffers who met with suspected teen shooter Ethan Crumbley hours before he allegedly opened fire inside the school, killing four students and injuring seven others, were placed on a paid leave one week after the incident, according to emails obtained by The Detroit News.

Dean of Students Nicholas Ejak and school counselor Shawn Hopkins were informed in writing by David Pass, assistant superintendent of human resources at Oxford Community Schools, that each would be placed on paid non-disciplinary administrative leave on Dec. 7. School was suspended after the Nov. 30 and restarted on Jan. 10 at the middle school.

"The District experienced a tragic event on Nov. 30, 2021 that resulted in the deaths of 4 student and injuries to 7 others. You were involved with a meeting with the student and his parents and the assessment of the student on Nov. 30, 2021," the email states to Ejak...

Thanks for sharing this.

Paid leave? For what purpose & to what effect? I guess that info is behind the paywall.

Sure would like to know more. Does anyone here subscribe to the Detroit News?
MOO

 

[MrsWatson]

Thanks for sharing this.

Paid leave? For what purpose & to what effect? I guess that info is behind the paywall.

Sure would like to know more. Does anyone here subscribe to the Detroit News?
MOO

From the article:

"Given the severity of the situation, personal threats and well being, and the ongoing internal and external investigation, you are placed on non-disciplinary non-duty leave of absence effective immediately. You will be notified upon conclusion of the investigation," Pass wrote.

Ejak and Hopkins are the first known Oxford high school staffers to be placed on leave in the wake of the shooting. It was not clear if they have been cleared or returned to school. School officials did not respond to a request to update their status or comment if other OHS staffers were also placed on leave.

Ejak and Hopkins are no longer part of the district's public online employee listing.

 

[MrsWatson]

I'm guessing they were the one who had the contact with Ethan when he was found with the alarming worksheet, but that is only a guess.

 

[WingsOverTX]

From the article:

"Given the severity of the situation, personal threats and well being, and the ongoing internal and external investigation, you are placed on non-disciplinary non-duty leave of absence effective immediately. You will be notified upon conclusion of the investigation," Pass wrote.

Ejak and Hopkins are the first known Oxford high school staffers to be placed on leave in the wake of the shooting. It was not clear if they have been cleared or returned to school. School officials did not respond to a request to update their status or comment if other OHS staffers were also placed on leave.

Ejak and Hopkins are no longer part of the district's public online employee listing.

I find it interesting that it appears they were fired. Apparently for lack of clairvoyance?

School employees have to work within certain guidelines to try to help students. From what I have seen, they tried and in a timely manner, which was critical. Maybe they didn't do "enough" but they didn't ignore EC's cry for help.

When you call in the parents and they refuse to do the right thing, what are your options? Suspend the kid knowing he will not be supervised? EC could have easily gone home then returned to the school with the same outcome. Who was going to prevent that?

I find it startling that his path was so determined that day that Ethan did not even postpone his plan. COLD to the CORE.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but those responsible for the welfare of a child have to work together. You can't force parents who have never done the right thing to suddenly start.

MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Thanks for sharing this.

Paid leave? For what purpose & to what effect? I guess that info is behind the paywall.

Sure would like to know more. Does anyone here subscribe to the Detroit News?
MOO

When I'm signed in to my Detroit News account, I don't know which articles are free and which are deemed "subscribers only". I don't want to share more of the article than is permitted per TOS.

 

[Sundog]

I find it interesting that it appears they were fired. Apparently for lack of clairvoyance?

School employees have to work within certain guidelines to try to help students. From what I have seen, they tried and in a timely manner, which was critical. Maybe they didn't do "enough" but they didn't ignore EC's cry for help.

When you call in the parents and they refuse to do the right thing, what are your options? Suspend the kid knowing he will not be supervised? EC could have easily gone home then returned to the school with the same outcome. Who was going to prevent that?

I find it startling that his path was so determined that day that Ethan did not even postpone his plan. COLD to the CORE.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but those responsible for the welfare of a child have to work together. You can't force parents who have never done the right thing to suddenly start.

MOO

It is usually standard operating procedure to place employees on paid administrative leave while an investigation is being conducted. The fact that they don't appear on a list of employees could mean that they are left off the list due to administrative leave, or that they resigned. Doesn't necessarily mean that they were fired. JMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm guessing they were the one who had the contact with Ethan when he was found with the alarming worksheet, but that is only a guess.

Yes. These were the two school officials who met with Ethan on the day of the shooting. They allowed him to return to class when his parents refused to take him home.

 

[WingsOverTX]

It is usually standard operating procedure to place employees on paid administrative leave while an investigation is being conducted. The fact that they don't appear on a list of employees could mean that they are left off the list due to administrative leave, or that they resigned. Doesn't necessarily mean that they were fired. JMO.

Sure. But I doubt it.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It is usually standard operating procedure to place employees on paid administrative leave while an investigation is being conducted. The fact that they don't appear on a list of employees could mean that they are left off the list due to administrative leave, or that they resigned. Doesn't necessarily mean that they were fired. JMO.

Yes, and tenured teachers/counselors cannot be fired without a cause hearing that involves union representation. Given the number of lawsuits that have been filed in this case, the investigation and litigation is likely to continue for several years. JMO

 

[cujenn81]

I find it interesting that it appears they were fired. Apparently for lack of clairvoyance?

School employees have to work within certain guidelines to try to help students. From what I have seen, they tried and in a timely manner, which was critical. Maybe they didn't do "enough" but they didn't ignore EC's cry for help.

When you call in the parents and they refuse to do the right thing, what are your options? Suspend the kid knowing he will not be supervised? EC could have easily gone home then returned to the school with the same outcome. Who was going to prevent that?

I find it startling that his path was so determined that day that Ethan did not even postpone his plan. COLD to the CORE.

Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but those responsible for the welfare of a child have to work together. You can't force parents who have never done the right thing to suddenly start.

MOO

I totally agree. On the other hand… the counselor really should’ve consulted the school’s LE resource officer before sending him back to class. AT THE VERY LEAST, they should have searched his belongings first.

I mean… his teacher caught him looking at ammunition on his phone the day before and then he’s drawing violent images of himself shooting up the school on his math homework. But they don’t search his backpack before they send him back to class??? Whyyyy? This just defies all common sense, IMO.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oakland judge limits pretrial publicity in case of parents of alleged Oxford High shooter

Attorneys had argued their clients, James and Jennifer Crumbley, were being deprived of a fair trial due to the prosecutor making statements to the media.

www.detroitnews.com

Pontiac — An Oakland County Circuit judge issued a gag order Friday in the case involving the parents of the accused Oxford High School shooter.

Oakland County Circuit Judge Cheryl Matthews noted in her ruling that there would be no sanctions against the Oakland County prosecutor for pretrial statements made about the pending criminal case.

Matthews said the order would "protect the rights of the accused as well as the people to a fair trial."...

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Parents of accused Oxford High shooter appeal charges, seek to exclude son's texts

Defense lawyers in the appeal write that judges abused their discretion in binding their clients over to circuit court to stand trial – and that some evidence should be excluded.

www.detroitnews.com

Lansing – Defense attorneys for the parents of the accused Oxford High School shooter are asking the Michigan Court of Appeals to overturn pre-trial rulings that bound them over to circuit court to stand trial, and they also seek to bar their son’s journal, emails or texts to be used at their trials if those proceed.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, parents of Ethan Crumbley, are each charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter in deaths of four Oxford High students in the Nov. 30 shooting at the school. If convicted, they face up to 15 years in prison. The teen is charged with multiple felony offenses that carry up to life in prison.

Ethan Crumbley's trial is scheduled for January; the parents' trial is scheduled for Oct. 24. All of the Crumbleys are being held in the Oakland County Jail...

 

[WingsOverTX]

Parents of accused Oxford High shooter appeal charges, seek to exclude son's texts

Defense lawyers in the appeal write that judges abused their discretion in binding their clients over to circuit court to stand trial – and that some evidence should be excluded.

www.detroitnews.com

Lansing – Defense attorneys for the parents of the accused Oxford High School shooter are asking the Michigan Court of Appeals to overturn pre-trial rulings that bound them over to circuit court to stand trial, and they also seek to bar their son’s journal, emails or texts to be used at their trials if those proceed.

James and Jennifer Crumbley, parents of Ethan Crumbley, are each charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter in deaths of four Oxford High students in the Nov. 30 shooting at the school. If convicted, they face up to 15 years in prison. The teen is charged with multiple felony offenses that carry up to life in prison.

Ethan Crumbley's trial is scheduled for January; the parents' trial is scheduled for Oct. 24. All of the Crumbleys are being held in the Oakland County Jail...

I interpret this as clear evidence they fear conviction. Trying to separate themselves from proof of their son's premeditation is absurd since that is the basis of the case against them in addition to his access to weapons.

His parents failed at the most basic duty: duty of care.

Their lawyers are really reaching. And Ethan is left swinging in the wind as always.

Reminds me of their lame attempt to run & hide before the prosecutor rightly filed charges.

DUTY OF CARE - something all parents who have firearms in their home & a child showing signs of mental illness & a desire to harm themselves or others ignore at their peril.

JMO