GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

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No gun control discussion folks. It is not allowed at WS because it leads to bickering over the pros and cons, feelings get hurt, and nothing that is said at Websleuths will ever change anything in that regard.

Thanks for your understanding.
 
Continue the discussion here.
 
- Who said what to end the meeting after 11 minutes?
- Should it matter to the jury which parent dealt with storing the gun?

"Jennifer Crumbley wrote to her husband...
, “He said he was distraught about last night” and “I’m very concerned headed to his school.” Keast said Jennifer Crumbley abruptly ended the school meeting and didn't take her son home."

eu.usatoday.com

Jennifer Crumbley, on trial in son's school shooting, sobs at 'horrific' footage of rampage

The Oxford High School shooter's mother broke down crying in court when she watched video of the rampage for the first time.
eu.usatoday.com

IMO this shows she did in fact know there was a serious problem (expressing concern to her husband) but decided to put off dealing with it (ending the meeting).

However, this article doesn't specify which of "the Crumbleys" ended the meeting and states, "while the mother had taken her son to a gun range ...she wasn't responsible for locking and storing the firearm. James Crumbley had that authority."
www.nbcnews.com

Opening statements at trial of Jennifer Crumbley focus on how she parented her son in the lead-up to the school shooting

Ethan Crumbley killed four students at Oxford High School in Michigan days after Thanksgiving in 2021.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com
 
ChatteringBirds said:
Maybe she wants him to testify that he never asked them (either parent) for mental health help. Maybe also to say that his father was the purchaser of the gun. ETA: And responsible for safely storing it. JMO.
Click to expand...
Yes, I found this.
Thanks!

'The battle over Ethan Crumbley's testimony'​

'At issue for the mom's defense lawyer is that her son's text messages to a friend and journal entries are going to be admitted at trial. In those texts and his journal, her son claimed that his parents ignored his pleas to get him help for mental health issues, a theme the prosecution has been hammering since the parents were arrested more than two years ago.

The mom's lawyer, Shannon Smith, argues that if the prosecution gets to admit those text messages and journal entries, then she should be allowed an opportunity to rebut them. To do that, she argues, she must question the shooter and his psychiatrists about statements he allegedly made that contradict his claims that his parents ignored his pleas for help"

www.freep.com

Jennifer Crumbley asks judge to order son to testify as jury selection begins

Jennifer Crumbley says she will not get a fair trial if her son and three psychiatrists he spoke to do not testify in her trial.
www.freep.com

 
While I obviously agree that safe gun storage is a major issue here (including figuring out whether it was locked up or not), I think the focus by the defense on how the dad is the one who bought the gun is not going to successfully shift all of the blame off of her shoulders. I am a mom. If my husband went out and bought my child a gun and I was at ALL concerned about their mental health, the very LEAST I would do is make sure it was always secured and only available with parental supervision. That isn’t just the responsibility of one parent. It is a responsibility of both adults in the home. I know nothing about guns but I most definitely know that my husband’s weapons that are in my home are behind locked doors and not accessible to my children.

I think her biggest failure, and the thing she will have a hard time defending, is what she did and didn’t do the day of the shooting when they were called to the school. EVEN IF she only knew what was on that worksheet, she knew he had a gun at home and he was clearly struggling based solely on what he wrote on that paper. I don’t for one minute think she expected this to happen but I also think there were many missed opportunities to just get this kid someone to talk to. If my child was texting me about demons in the house, I would never have let that just go. All IMO, obviously.
 
IAMWAN said:
While I obviously agree that safe gun storage is a major issue here (including figuring out whether it was locked up or not), I think the focus by the defense on how the dad is the one who bought the gun is not going to successfully shift all of the blame off of her shoulders. I am a mom. If my husband went out and bought my child a gun and I was at ALL concerned about their mental health, the very LEAST I would do is make sure it was always secured and only available with parental supervision. That isn’t just the responsibility of one parent. It is a responsibility of both adults in the home. I know nothing about guns but I most definitely know that my husband’s weapons that are in my home are behind locked doors and not accessible to my children.

I think her biggest failure, and the thing she will have a hard time defending, is what she did and didn’t do the day of the shooting when they were called to the school. EVEN IF she only knew what was on that worksheet, she knew he had a gun at home and he was clearly struggling based solely on what he wrote on that paper. I don’t for one minute think she expected this to happen but I also think there were many missed opportunities to just get this kid someone to talk to. If my child was texting me about demons in the house, I would never have let that just go. All IMO, obviously.
Click to expand...
Mom here too and ditto.

I wasn't aware of this info.about the gun.

"On October 24, 2022, Crumbley pleaded guilty to all of the charges and withdrew his intent to pursue an insanity defense. He also admitted during questioning on that day that his own money was used to purchase the weapon used and claimed that the gun was not locked away on the day of the shooting.[88]'

en.wikipedia.org

Oxford High School shooting - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
MrsWatson said:
If I had any concerns about my child's mental health, the last thing I would do is purchase a gun for them. This doesn't seem like a big leap of logic to me. How do you defend that?

MOO
Click to expand...
Jennifer knew all about her son's torturing/killing of baby birds.

Talk about a screaming red flag ( son needs help).

www.detroitnews.com

Oxford shooter's mom asks that 'sickening' evidence of bird torture not be allowed in trial

Jennifer Crumbley is charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter connected to her son shooting and killing four classmates at Oxford High.
www.detroitnews.com
 
IAMWAN said:
know nothing about guns but I most definitely know that my husband’s weapons that are in my home are behind locked doors and not accessible to my children.
Click to expand...

I agree both parents are responsible, but maybe she is going to say she also definitely knew the gun was not accessible but that day her husband had left it accessible, against their agreement and unbeknownst to her. That still wouldn't make a difference to me personally, but maybe she'll try to claim something like that.
 
Anyone else have concerns about the judge?

She hasn't come across to me as the authority figure in her court room and appears somewhat passive and is easily influenced, like she doesn't want to offend anyone .


She made the jurors "pinky promise" not to talk about the trial when out of the court room.(facepalm)
 
Yikes.

"The couple's lawyers also convinced the judge to keep out of trial numerous elements that they argued were irrelevant and prejudicial, including: the mom's alleged extramarital affair, the couples' alleged "messy house," pot and booze found in the home, a Nazi coin that was found in their son's bedroom, and a bird's head that he allegedly hid under his bed in a jar.'

www.freep.com

Crumbleys plan to call their son to testify in their case: 'We need him'

The Crumbleys are not "throwing their son under the bus" by calling him as a witnesses, their lawyers say.
www.freep.com
 
Interesting that they want their son to testify for them. It sounds like they want to impeach his statements to his friends and in his journal. Ultimately, I think the son’s state of mind is irrelevant for the parents’ culpability. It seems to me that what matters is what the parents knew at the time and their failure to act. It is the actions or inactions of the parents that’s at issue. He is a minor and his thoughts, feelings, and what he said or didn’t say does not absolve the parents of their responsibility to observe, pay attention, and act.

I’m not sure how the state spins bad parenting into involuntary manslaughter. These parents were probably self-absorbed and inattentive. There are bound to be jurors who have a “lax” parental attitude, good luck getting those jurors to convict.

JMO
 
Weki's post 1001 at 5pm is mind blowing. Sorry I don't know how to pull a post from a closed topic to a new topic.
 
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