GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

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LMDlong said:
I agree with most of what you said. I truly believe the parents possibly could have forseen something possibly happening. JC knew there was something going on with her son in the early part of 2021. But she passed it off as EC joking around. That was one mistake. Not getting him into a therapy second mistake . Both the parents and the school the biggest mistake of not search the back pack. The stuff EC drew was enough to say hey if he’s going to stay in school today , with the parents present we need to check the backpack and locker.
In our local school district the school calls the police and the parents. The police bring in the K9 . Searches are performed. Thank God no shooting has occurred.
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Another big mistake I forget to add not locking the gun up nor changing the code to the safe . Jmo
 
The jurors are instructed to use their common sense. In this type of case, common sense dictates one to ask the question, ‘in what other circumstances of life can this apply?’ If I were a juror and a parent, I would have to ask in deliberations ‘what if this or that scenario.’ Jurors definitely have to think about precedent. They may not word it ‘precedent’ but I believe they are well within their duty to consider that. Again, jurors are asked to make a decision as they would in the ordinary course of life. JMO
 
Back in Michigan to cover jury deliberations and possible conviction of accused school shooter's mother, Jennifer Crumbley. First time in U.S. history a parent could be found partly responsible for a mass school shooting. Jury began deliberating about 30 minutes ago.

1707153186342.png
https://twitter.com/x/status/1754525880414609678
 
Looking at the photos on this page - JC during the first week - the co counsel who's seen behind JC. What happened to him? He was absent during week 2.
Is he the atty who's just parted company with Shannon Smith's firm?
 
Back in the room - link in case anyone doesn't have it to hand
Judge entering now

Surprise! Jury instructions not clear ( although both sides agreed to it)
2nd surprise. Shannon Smith cannot find the page number and asks for help
 
LMDlong said:
Not surprised by SS. IMO its not looking good for JC.
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I honestly don't know how this is going to go - apart from believing there will not be an acquittal.

But I would also be surprised if there was a Guilty verdict - just because I appreciate that things are so polarised when it comes to guns and parenting responsibilities vs rights. ( My personal view based on watching the trial is different)

Also IDK the implications of the alternates. If the alternates, as numbered by the judge just now , do correspond to the media's initial lists of jurors, it could be good for JC
( IDK if the jury seat arrangements matches across both sources - day of selection and today's date)
 
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cottonweaver said:
I honestly don't know how this is going to go - apart from believing there will not be an acquittal.

But I would also be surprised if there was a Guilty verdict - just because I appreciate that things are so polarised when it comes to guns and parenting responsibilities vs rights. ( My personal view based on watching the trial is different)

Also IDK the implications of the alternates. If the alternates, as numbered by the judge just now , do correspond to the media's initial lists of jurors, it could be good for JC
( IDK if the jury seat arrangements matches across both sources - day of selection and today's date)
Click to expand...
I respect your opinion.
 
LMDlong said:
I respect your opinion.
Click to expand...
this is the list of chosen alternates -

seats 15, 17, 10, 4, 9 (Leaving a jury of 6 men, 6 women)

whereas this is the list media gave pre trial:

' The panel of 12 jurors and five alternates includes 10 women and seven men, most of them parents...'

  • Juror 1: White female. Works in human resources. Has two adult children. Her father was a hunter. “I gave up watching all the news in all forms six years ago. I’m pretty uninformed.” Regarding her father’s guns, “I know my dad’s guns were always locked. It was not for the children.”
  • Juror 2: White, 26-year-old married male. Says he grew up in a strict, Christian home. He works in sales for the mortgage industry. He took hunter safety classes when he was 16, but is not an avid hunter. His father has a gun and has a concealed-carry permit. The juror said he doesn’t have strong opinions on guns. He doesn’t have cable TV, tries to stay away from social media and despises TikTok.
  • Juror 3: White female hairstylist, says she’s familiar with the case, has no issues with guns and can be impartial.
  • Juror 4: White female engineer, husband is a lawyer. She said she can be fair and impartial and that “it’s not a good-bad parent decision” the jury will be making in this case, stating: “That’s not why we’re here.” She did note, however, that she no longer goes to movie theaters or shopping malls following a mass shooting in Colorado that shook her sense of security.
  • Juror 5: White female, married. Has guns in the house and says they “are locked up.” She has two grown children and recalls taking gun safety classes as a family when the kids were in elementary school. She works for a bank and her husband is in advertising. “I feel like I can be fair,” she said.
  • Juror 6: White female. Married and retired compliance specialist. Her husband is a retired meat market owner and her daughter a special education teacher. She was on a jury many years ago, but remembers little to nothing about the case.
  • Juror 7: White male doctor who said, “I’ve seen a lot of gun violence.” Owns multiple guns that he stores in a safe. He calls himself a “very strong proponent” of the Second Amendment and goes to shooting ranges about once a month, maybe every two months. He has lost two loved ones to suicide by a gun.
  • Juror 8: White male. Automotive engineer with twin teenagers. He has a collector’s gun that belonged to a relative who served in a war. He remembers being a kid and learning how to shoot a shotgun, though he is not into guns as an adult, beyond owning his collector’s item.
  • Juror 9: White female. First-grade teacher, married with two grown children and one older teenager. “I don’t have guns, but I understand that it’s legal,” she said.
  • Juror 10: White male, works in vehicle logistics. He owns several guns and remembers tagging along with his dad to gun ranges when he was 10. His best friend is a police officer in a jail and his girlfriend is a personal trainer.
  • Juror 11: Single white female. No children. She has a gun for personal protection, worked 16 years as a police officer for a university. Now she handles parking tickets.
  • Juror 12: Black male, Single. No children. Works as a manager in sales. His father had a gun and taught him about gun safety.
  • Juror 13: Single white male who works as a powertrain engineer. He doesn’t own any guns, but went to a shooting range with his girlfriend over the last year for fun. He grew up in Nebraska. He says his engineering brain makes him a good juror as he will be able to carefully analyze evidence as it applies to the charges. Defense attorney Shannon Smith joked with him that “We don’t let engineers sit on juries” because they typically see the world in black and white. “But there’s a lot of gray space in this case,” Smith said. The juror said he understood and that he could be fair.
  • Juror 14: White male parole officer who says he’s “fair to a fault” and sees “success stories” in his work involving prisoners who turn their lives around. He’s married, has two older teenagers. Has guns at home, keeps them in a storage unit. His kids are not interested in guns. Before his 20-year career in law enforcement, he worked for the government’s Medicaid and food stamp programs.
  • Juror 15: Single white female who works as an account manager for rental properties. Lives with her parents.
  • Juror 16: White married female with an infant son. Works in billing for university students. She is originally from the Upper Peninsula and used to be a hunter. She remembers getting days off from school as a kid during hunting season, but she no longer hunts. Her sister was a target of a school shooting that was stopped.
  • Juror 17: White female, married with two school-age children and works in veterinary medicine. “When I think about this case, I feel rage,” she said of the Oxford shooting. She grew up with guns. Her dad hunted and her sister is a competitive shooter, though she said her husband is “very anti-guns” and “just doesn’t want them in our house.”
the link for that (Old link doesn't say whether media's original list corresponds with the judge's seating list today but maybe somebody on WS knows)
In case they do correspond, have italicised the alternates.
Jennifer Crumbley's jury includes several gun owners, mostly women
 
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