GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[Izzylizzy]

"...his jury has seen some different evidence, including an excerpt in the shooter's journal that is at the heart of a key claim by the defense: that the dad did not give his son access to the gun.

The son wrote in his journal: "I will have to find where my dad hid my 9 mm before I can shoot (up) the school."

Prosecution saves most gripping evidence for last, leaves courtroom in tears

Jurors saw inside the Crumbley home Tuesday, including the Oxford school shooter's rooms with targets and shell casings.

eu.freep.com

Excuse me, but hiding a gun in an armoire isn't preventing a teenager from finding it. I am baffled why they didn't change the code on their gun safe and use it for all of their guns.

iirc: The ammo wasn't exactly hidden, it was also in the same piece of bedroom furniture under some clothing?
A gun is useless w/o ammo.

 

[Izzylizzy]

iirc: The ammo wasn't exactly hidden, it was also in the same piece of bedroom furniture under some clothing?
A gun is useless w/o ammo.

imo:
If we are to believe James's definition of what "hidden" is then we have to accept as fact that James as a kid never snooped in his parents bedroom.
So-called hiding a gun and ammo in one's bedroom furniture is the first place a burglar would look no less your kid.

"The gun was “hidden in our armoire in the case, and the bullets were hidden in a different spot underneath some jeans,” James Crumbley declared, not adding anything more about how Ethan might have discovered them."

Michigan school shooter's dad insisted to police that gun, ammunition were hidden at home

PONTIAC, Mich. (AP) — The father of a Michigan school shooter told police shortly after the fatal attack that a gun and ammunition used by his son had been hidden at the family's home, according to a video seen by jurors Friday.

apnews.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Lehman told the court that James Crumbley SR and wife were on their witness list but will not be testifying.
They are in the courtroom.
These are the grandparents who met James and EC at the shooting range over the summer.
Their texts were entered as evidence by prosecution showing James giving directions to range.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Defense is calling Karen Crumbley.
Who is she?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Defense is calling Karen Crumbley.
Who is she?

Karen is James's sister and the only witness that the defense is calling.

I feel sorry for her being the only one who was expected to come to James's defense and was somehow supposed to convince the jury that all was fine with EC in the Crumbley household .
If she was aware of issues with EC she would have addressed it with James and if need be even take EC to her home in another state,
The prosecution showed through electronic evidence that she and James very rarely spoke on the phone, like 2x within months.

Closing arguments are on their way at 12:30 pm

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Both sides rest at James Crumbley trial: Here’s every witness testimony

Watch all of the witness testimony from James Crumbley's trial here.

www.clickondetroit.com

Recap Day 7: James Crumbley decision now in hands of jury

Prosecutors and a defense attorney for James Crumbley delivered their closing arguments in his involuntary manslaughter trial.

www.detroitnews.com

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Oxford shooter's journal entries read during James Crumbley trial detail teen's plan to 'shoot up' school

Several journal entries written by the shooter were read in the trial of James Crumbley. He's being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

www.detroitnews.com

Pontiac — As Oakland County prosecutors try to prove James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford High School shooter, was grossly negligent by allowing his teen son access to a gun he used to kill four classmates, they presented on Tuesday their most direct evidence yet — from the shooter himself.

An entry in a journal kept by Ethan Crumbley the day before he opened fire said he had "access to the gun and ammo" in his family's home.

The chilling entry was one of several read by Lt. Timothy Willis, a detective in the Oakland County Sheriff's Office, during the trial of James Crumbley, Ethan Crumbley's father, in Oakland County Circuit Court. He's being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the killings committed by his son on Nov. 30, 2021.

Over 22 pages, in every entry, the shooter mentioned his desire to get a 9mm gun and "shoot up" his school, Willis testified. The teen wrote that he wanted a 9mm because of its effectiveness for killing — that's the same caliber he used in the shooting...

 

[Izzylizzy]

I'm curious why Lehman didn't call James's parents to the stand when they were on her witness list?
Not that being on a witness list in any way confirms that you will be called to testify.

imo:
I don't see Karen's testimony as having helped James and his sister being the only witness that Lehman called may have hurt him.


'Karen Crumbley, who lives in Florida, told the Pontiac courtroom she saw the Crumbley family multiple times in 2021, and that she didn't recall seeing or hearing anything concerning with the shooter, or that James expressed any concerns about his son’s behavior or mental health.
"If I saw anything (concerning), I would’ve addressed it," Karen said. "If I would’ve known anything, I would’ve talked to him. I would’ve took him home with me if there was any kind of inclination that anything was wrong."

Karen did, however, say that she would have found the math worksheet with the words "help me" and drawing of a gun that James' son drew just hours before the shooting as concerning during cross-examination.'

James Crumbley's Sister Testifies In Oxford Shooting Trial

James Crumbley's sister said she didn't noticed anything concerning about his son in the months leading up to the deadly Oxford shooting.

patch.com

 

[Cool Cats]

In my opinion if Ethan had obtained a gun by stealing it from say, a grandparent's house, there would be no way to convict the parents.

None of this evidence put together is enough for conviction without the Crumbley's

1.) Having a gun and ammunition in their home
2.) Not lockiing gun and ammunition in a gun safe so secure Ethan could not go to the damn default numbers 0-0-0 as apparently he could have done with the

• Cobra Derringer Classic
• KelTec P17

Here is why Ethan did not simply use one of these guns:

The SIG Sauer gun Ethan was begging for takes 9mm rounds which means the bullets are

1.) Heavier
2.) Bigger
3.) More lethal

The Cobra Derringer Classic and KelTec P17 take .22 ammunition. These are
smaller, lighter and less lethal bullets.

James Crumbley trial: ATF agent testifies about 3 guns in home, where they were kept

James Crumbley's trial continued Monday with testimony from an ATF special agent who spoke on the guns that Crumbley owned and where they were found and kept in the home.

www.fox2detroit.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Videos of all the witnesses.

Both sides rest at James Crumbley trial: Here’s every witness testimony

Watch all of the witness testimony from James Crumbley's trial here.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

In my opinion if Ethan had obtained a gun by stealing it from say, a grandparent's house, there would be no way to convict the parents.

None of this evidence put together is enough for conviction without the Crumbley's

1.) Having a gun and ammunition in their home
2.) Not lockiing gun and ammunition in a gun safe so secure Ethan could not go to the damn default numbers 0-0-0 as apparently he could have done with the

• Cobra Derringer Classic
• KelTec P17

Here is why Ethan did not simply use one of these guns:

The SIG Sauer gun Ethan was begging for takes 9mm rounds which means the bullets are

1.) Heavier
2.) Bigger
3.) More lethal

The Cobra Derringer Classic and KelTec P17 take .22 ammunition. These are
smaller, lighter and less lethal bullets.

James Crumbley trial: ATF agent testifies about 3 guns in home, where they were kept

James Crumbley's trial continued Monday with testimony from an ATF special agent who spoke on the guns that Crumbley owned and where they were found and kept in the home.

www.fox2detroit.com

"Crumbley dropped a bombshell in admitting to his crimes, telling the judge that he gave his father money to buy him the gun that he used in the mass shooting, and that the gun was easily accessible — contradicting his parents' claims that the gun was securely stored.

"It was not locked," Ethan Crumbley said in court.'

Ethan Crumbley: I gave my dad money to buy gun used in school shooting

The teenager contradicted his parents' story that the gun used to kill classmates was locked up and says he gave his dad money to buy the weapon.

www.freep.com

 

[Cool Cats]

"Crumbley dropped a bombshell in admitting to his crimes, telling the judge that he gave his father money to buy him the gun that he used in the mass shooting, and that the gun was easily accessible — contradicting his parents' claims that the gun was securely stored.

"It was not locked," Ethan Crumbley said in court.'

Ethan Crumbley: I gave my dad money to buy gun used in school shooting

The teenager contradicted his parents' story that the gun used to kill classmates was locked up and says he gave his dad money to buy the weapon.

www.freep.com

Yup.

But let's say yes, JC used EC's $ and bought him the gun for "his Christmas present."

But then LOCKED IT UP NOT ALLOWING EC ACCESS TO IT.

So then, let's say, EC goes and steals a gun from someone else from a completely different home and uses that gun instead to murder innocent teens.

There then is still not enough evidence to convict either of the Crumbley's.

It is all about DELIBERATELY giving their deranged teen son access to one of THEIR guns.

2 Cents

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Why we may never know where murder weapon was in days before Oxford shooting

The trial of James Crumbley wrapped up Wednesday without any testimony from Crumbley himself, who could have offered more insight into the whereabouts of the gun used by his son in the Oxford High School shooting.

www.clickondetroit.com

...But one piece of information still remains a mystery: The whereabouts of the murder weapon in the days leading up to the shooting. Those whereabouts were not clarified at Jennifer Crumbley’s trial, and may never be, now that James Crumbley decided not to take the stand in his own defense...

The shooter’s father was accused by his wife of being the adult responsible for handling, storing, and hiding the family’s three firearms. One of those firearms, a 9 mm handgun bought days before the shooting, was accessed and used by the Oxford shooter to murder four students and injure seven people on Nov. 30, 2021.

While testifying in her defense at her own trial, Jennifer Crumbley told the jury that she was not responsible for the family’s guns. She said she had no problem with the firearms, but that she wasn’t comfortable handling them and left that responsibility to her husband...

When it comes to who was responsible for storing the three handguns in the Crumbley family’s home, we only have Jennifer Crumbley’s testimony to rely on. James Crumbley could have offered more insight into gun storage in the home, and whether it was his responsibility, but he is not testifying in this case...

 

[Sundog]

Yup.

But let's say yes, JC used EC's $ and bought him the gun for "his Christmas present."

But then LOCKED IT UP NOT ALLOWING EC ACCESS TO IT.

So then, let's say, EC goes and steals a gun from someone else from a completely different home and uses that gun instead to murder innocent teens.

There then is still not enough evidence to convict either of the Crumbley's.

It is all about DELIBERATELY giving their deranged teen son access to one of THEIR guns.

2 Cents

A legal question - did Michigan law at the time of EC's school shooting require firearms to be under lock and key in residential homes? IIRC, that was not law in Michigan. So wouldn't "access" to guns in Michigan homes be the norm at that time?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

A legal question - did Michigan law at the time of EC's school shooting require firearms to be under lock and key in residential homes? IIRC, that was not law in Michigan. So wouldn't "access" to guns in Michigan homes be the norm at that time?

Correct. New gun safety laws went into effect last month.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Livestream of closing arguments: Live video from 7 Action News

 

[Izzylizzy]

A legal question - did Michigan law at the time of EC's school shooting require firearms to be under lock and key in residential homes? IIRC, that was not law in Michigan. So wouldn't "access" to guns in Michigan homes be the norm at that time?

'An office manager from that gun store said the handgun sold to Crumbley came with a cable lock for safe storage. Crumbley also signed trigger lock statement during his purchase, which confirms the firearm was sold with a trigger lock or a securable storage container, manager Cammy Back testified on Friday, March 8.

You can see an example of a trigger lock statement down below.

But defense attorney Mariell Lehman clarified for the jury that Crumbley didn’t sign any documents indicating he would actually use the cable lock to secure the gun case, which wasn’t securable on its own. She also pointed out that, at the time of the shooting, no laws were in place requiring James Crumbley -- or any gun owner -- to use a trigger lock or otherwise secure a gun stored in the home.

Back agreed with those statements. A safe storage gun law was signed by Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, but not until 2023. The law, requiring certain gun owners to store their guns unloaded and locked, took effect this February.

When redirecting the witness, Assistant Oakland County Prosecutor Marc Keast asked Back who bears the responsibility of keeping a gun safe. Back said the gun owner is responsible for keeping it safe.'

Defense implies James Crumbley wasn’t legally required to lock gun used in Oxford shooting

Defense attorneys on Friday implied that the father of the Oxford shooter wasn’t legally required to lock up the handgun used in the shooting.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

"Brandon testified that they later found the pamphlet underneath the gun's foam padding.

"When I lifted up the foam and saw the pamphlet in there, I was shocked," he said. "As the pamphlet says on the front, it says, Youth Handgun Safety Act Notice. It means they were on notice - they had to pick this up and move it to the back of that gun case and basically discard it under the foam."

In fact, Brandon said the pamphlet wasn't found until after Jennifer Crumbley's trial earlier this year.


During his three hours on the stand, Brandon testified that the Crumbleys were provided ATF pamphlets on gun safety and chidlren. They were also provided with a cable lock that he said appeared to have never even been opened or used. He said there was no evidence of other cable locks in the home.

After questioning by both the prosecution and defense, Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald got a brief few moments for redirect – where she brought up James Crumbley's internet searches and if he ever searched for firearm safety and minors.

Brandon said it never happened before the Oxford High School shooting on November 30.

"There were searches related to that topic. It was after the shooting had occurred," he said. "I don't recall the exact date, but it was after the shooting."

Brandon said there were no other searches regarding firearm safety made by James Crumbley."

James Crumbley researched information on guns and minors after Oxford High School shooting, ATF agent says

James Crumbley didn't search for guns and minors online until days after the Oxford High School shooting, an ATF agent testified on Monday.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Cool Cats]

A legal question - did Michigan law at the time of EC's school shooting require firearms to be under lock and key in residential homes? IIRC, that was not law in Michigan. So wouldn't "access" to guns in Michigan homes be the norm at that time?

Good point.

Michigan did not have a law to lock guns up but because of what happened it does now.

So here is the difference as I understand it.....

1.) Ethan steals a gun from a different person/different home where they know minors may be present and shoots people.

2.) The gun owner does not get charged because there was no law saying they had to lock up the gun and they themselves did not give Ethan the gun.

3.) Ethan steals a gun from a different person/different home where they know minors may be present and shoots people.

4.) The gun owner does get charged because there is a law saying the gun owner had to lock up their gun and failed to do so.

5.) The gun owner uses the defense that they did not give Ethan the gun, Ethan stole it.

6.) Judge refuses to dismiss the gun owner's charge because even though Ethan stole the gun the gun owner failed to lock it up when the owner knew minors lived in or visited the home.

7.) Why were the Crumbley's charged when there was no law to lock the gun?

8.) Because their son used their gun to kill people and the trial is showing a long list of evidence as to why the Crumbley's were criminally negligent in allowing their mentally ill son to have access to their gun.

https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/inside-mdhhs/newsroom/2024/02/08/firearms-laws

 

[Izzylizzy]

McDonald is showing image of loaded handgun that EC took in his bedroom.
He texts friend that his dad left gun out.