GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

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I feel like dad has a slim chance of faring better than mom’s outcome. He had the benefit of seeing negative reactions to her testimony and cold affect. Saying she wouldn’t change a thing going back in time. Just by him not testifying at all, he comes across better. Additionally, showing some emotion towards the victims helps.

With all that said, he was a very negligent parent and buying a gun for a minor with no safety precautions definitely contributed to this horrific event.
 
The closing argument from the Defense exposed the crux of the case against the parents IMO. She said that no one that day could have known (foreseeability). The drawing alone, concerning, and staff wanted the parents to follow up ASAP with mental health support. Missed absolute urgency. Emergent-cy. A conclusion drawn from limited information. The problem is that two people in that meeting were acutely aware that EC had a desire to own a weapon, that they'd purchased one, that he'd practiced shooting it and that the gun lock had never even been opened, and they said nothing. Those details IMO would have resulted in definitive action by the school. The parents withheld critical data that morning which resulted in the deaths of four students and trauma to the remainder.

By failing to secure the weapon and failing to alert the school that EC had access to a poorly hidden, unsecured weapon, they supplied the weapon with which EC terrorized a school.

Guilty as charged.

If only Mr. C had gone home BEFORE the shooting, found the gun missing and called the police THEN, he could have saved lives. Hindsight? No. Foreseeability.

The drawing. A gun. Only two people in that room knew it was THE gun. That it existed, that EC had practiced shooting it, that it had been left unsecured in a very accessible wardrobe at home, that is was now being drawn into an action plan. That is screaming illumination for forethought.

Ignoring one's duty of care cost lives.

Guilty as charged.

JMO
 
Megnut said:
The closing argument from the Defense exposed the crux of the case against the parents IMO. She said that no one that day could have known (foreseeability). The drawing alone, concerning, and staff wanted the parents to follow up ASAP with mental health support. Missed absolute urgency. Emergent-cy. A conclusion drawn from limited information. The problem is that two people in that meeting were acutely aware that EC had a desire to own a weapon, that they'd purchased one, that he'd practiced shooting it and that the gun lock had never even been opened, and they said nothing. Those details IMO would have resulted in definitive action by the school. The parents withheld critical data that morning which resulted in the deaths of four students and trauma to the remainder.

By failing to secure the weapon and failing to alert the school that EC had access to a poorly hidden, unsecured weapon, they supplied the weapon with which EC terrorized a school.

Guilty as charged.

If only Mr. C had gone home BEFORE the shooting, found the gun missing and called the police THEN, he could have saved lives. Hindsight? No. Foreseeability.

The drawing. A gun. Only two people in that room knew it was THE gun. That it existed, that EC had practiced shooting it, that it had been left unsecured in a very accessible wardrobe at home, that is was now being drawn into an action plan. That is screaming illumination for forethought.

Ignoring one's duty of care cost lives.

Guilty as charged.

JMO
Click to expand...
MOO---Certainly guilty as charges. I liked your summary.
 
www.clickondetroit.com

Jury deliberations underway at James Crumbley trial: What they’re considering

Jurors on Thursday were deliberating whether to find James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford shooter, guilty of involuntary manslaughter for his alleged role in the massacre.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
OXFORD, Mich. – Jurors on Thursday were deliberating whether to find James Crumbley, the father of the Oxford High School shooter, guilty of involuntary manslaughter for his alleged role in the massacre.

Twelve jurors resumed deliberations on Thursday, March 14 after being handed the case on Wednesday. Both the prosecution and defense rested their cases Wednesday morning and delivered their closing arguments in the afternoon.

Through four days of witness testimony, prosecutors sought to prove that James Crumbley could have foreseen and prevented the Nov. 30, 2021, mass shooting that left four students dead and seven people injured.

Prosecutors focused much of their case on how James Crumbley stored the family’s three handguns, one of which was accessed by the shooter and used in the shooting. The prosecution also argued that the father failed to take action to help his son, despite being presented with evidence that his son’s mental health was declining and that he was going through a hard time...
 
Megnut said:
The closing argument from the Defense exposed the crux of the case against the parents IMO. She said that no one that day could have known (foreseeability). The drawing alone, concerning, and staff wanted the parents to follow up ASAP with mental health support. Missed absolute urgency. Emergent-cy. A conclusion drawn from limited information. The problem is that two people in that meeting were acutely aware that EC had a desire to own a weapon, that they'd purchased one, that he'd practiced shooting it and that the gun lock had never even been opened, and they said nothing. Those details IMO would have resulted in definitive action by the school. The parents withheld critical data that morning which resulted in the deaths of four students and trauma to the remainder.

By failing to secure the weapon and failing to alert the school that EC had access to a poorly hidden, unsecured weapon, they supplied the weapon with which EC terrorized a school.

Guilty as charged.

If only Mr. C had gone home BEFORE the shooting, found the gun missing and called the police THEN, he could have saved lives. Hindsight? No. Foreseeability.

The drawing. A gun. Only two people in that room knew it was THE gun. That it existed, that EC had practiced shooting it, that it had been left unsecured in a very accessible wardrobe at home, that is was now being drawn into an action plan. That is screaming illumination for forethought.

Ignoring one's duty of care cost lives.

Guilty as charged.

JMO
Click to expand...
If parents are so self-preoccupied that they don’t pay attention to their child’s needs they don’t get to come to court and say “how could I have foreseen this?” Many parents with convicted felon adult children come to court and blame “the system” in their impact statements - the father of that despicable woman Schabusiness comes immediately to mind. It was the system that failed her and caused her to kill and decapitate the victim. The judge had a fantastic response to that father! Similarly, the school (aka “the system”) does not have more responsibility here than the parents. It took me a while but I’m OK with this precedent now. It’s time to hold parents accountable when appropriate. And I’m OK with the Crumbleys having to face societal shaming and blame for this. I think the pendulum has swung off the axis when parents feel like they are NOT accountable when their child shoots up a school.

If this forces parents across the nation to pay more attention to these signs then it’s a good thing. JMO
 
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WDIV reporter Shawn Ley gave update on local news at noon. Jury has been deliberating for 4.5 hours. Lunch was delivered to jury room. Jury has been very quiet - no questions for Judge, no request for evidence, testimony, etc. Heavy media presence, all major news networks, some international news agencies. Shawn Ley will continue to provide updates throughout the day.
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
WDIV reporter Shawn Ley gave update on local news at noon. Jury has been deliberating for 4.5 hours. Lunch was delivered to jury room. Jury has been very quiet - no questions for Judge, no request for evidence, testimony, etc. Heavy media presence, all major news networks, some international news agencies. Shawn Ley will continue to provide updates throughout the day.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the local update!
 
www.clickondetroit.com

Where James Crumbley went the day of the Oxford shooting: A timeline

Prosecutors zeroed in on James Crumbley's whereabouts the day of the Oxford shooting during his manslaughter trial.
www.clickondetroit.com www.clickondetroit.com
...Part of their case focused on where James Crumbley did and didn’t go on the Tuesday the shooting took place. Prosecutors argued that James Crumbley was presented with enough concerning information that day that should’ve motivated him to stop home and check on the family’s firearms -- one of which was used in the shooting.

Oakland County prosecutors specifically zeroed in on what James Crumbley was doing after leaving a meeting with his son and a counselor at the high school, and before the shooting occurred.

Below is a timeline of James Crumbley’s whereabouts before and after the shooting on Nov. 30, 2021, according to evidence discussed throughout his trial. We’re also breaking down the significance of that timeline for prosecutors...
 
IMO:
If James didn't know that EC's gifted semi-automatic 9mm handgun was not properly hidden from his minor son and it wasn't trigger locked and the ammo was put under jeans and easily found , also in his bedroom furniture. he would have had no need to call 911 saying that his gun was missing and his son may be the shooter.

To me that's quite plain and simple that his 911 call showed he did not use
"reasonable care" with the handgun/deadly weapon and he knew it.


Adding insult to injury the nonchalant idiot left the ammo basically in plain sight .
 
Izzylizzy said:
IMO:
If James didn't know that EC's gifted semi-automatic 9mm handgun was not properly hidden from his minor son and it wasn't trigger locked and the ammo was put under jeans and easily found , also in his bedroom furniture. he would have had no need to call 911 saying that his gun was missing and his son may be the shooter.

To me that's quite plain and simple that his 911 call showed he did not use
"reasonable care" with the handgun/deadly weapon and he knew it.


Adding insult to injury the nonchalant idiot left the ammo basically in plain sight .
Click to expand...

I think the entire case is about the gun.

He bought the gun....He allowed his mentally ill son to access it.

Had the son used anyone else's gun stored on someone else's property his parents would never have been charged.

Jury made it clear that JC's conviction was all about the gun.

2 Cents
 
musicaljoke said:
The fact that he couldn't imagine what was to take place does not free him from his parental duties and responsibilities.
Click to expand...
I find it incredulous that the parents "couldn't imagine" what could be the outcome. This boy was begging for help in multiple ways. And the school requested that they take their son home. They refused. Can you imagine how totally hopeless he must have felt when he heard their decision not to take him with them that day?
 
Megnut said:
The closing argument from the Defense exposed the crux of the case against the parents IMO. She said that no one that day could have known (foreseeability). The drawing alone, concerning, and staff wanted the parents to follow up ASAP with mental health support. Missed absolute urgency. Emergent-cy. A conclusion drawn from limited information. The problem is that two people in that meeting were acutely aware that EC had a desire to own a weapon, that they'd purchased one, that he'd practiced shooting it and that the gun lock had never even been opened, and they said nothing. Those details IMO would have resulted in definitive action by the school. The parents withheld critical data that morning which resulted in the deaths of four students and trauma to the remainder.

By failing to secure the weapon and failing to alert the school that EC had access to a poorly hidden, unsecured weapon, they supplied the weapon with which EC terrorized a school.

Guilty as charged.

If only Mr. C had gone home BEFORE the shooting, found the gun missing and called the police THEN, he could have saved lives. Hindsight? No. Foreseeability.

The drawing. A gun. Only two people in that room knew it was THE gun. That it existed, that EC had practiced shooting it, that it had been left unsecured in a very accessible wardrobe at home, that is was now being drawn into an action plan. That is screaming illumination for forethought.

Ignoring one's duty of care cost lives.

Guilty as charged.

JMO
Click to expand...
Would like to add that their inaction as well as their actions also did irreparable harm to their son. He will be paying for his choices and theirs the rest of his life, sadly.
 
And when they saw him after the shootings after being questioned, he asked them to stay, and their responses were to say "Why?" and walk out. James did yell, "I love you" a few times, while walking out.

I wonder how unusual it was that they didn't want to stay and talk to and be with him longer, compared to other parents in that same situation. They didn't know when they'd ever see him again...
 
ChatteringBirds said:
And when they saw him after the shootings after being questioned, he asked them to stay, and their responses were to say "Why?" and walk out. James did yell, "I love you" a few times, while walking out.

I wonder how unusual it was that they didn't want to stay and talk to and be with him longer, compared to other parents in that same situation. They didn't know when they'd ever see him again...
Click to expand...
IIRC, during the last trial there was some discussion about what he said in the video when they were in the room with him. I thought that, when they were leaving, he asked them to take care of his cat (Dexter) and that's when Jennifer said "Why?" and then he said "I did it" and his dad started saying "I love you". I'm guessing that they didn't talk to him because anything they said could have been used as evidence? I know the police officer mentioned to him that his parents wanted to get him an attorney. Of course, that never happened because they took off.

I am, by no means, a Crumbley parent fan but I cannot even begin to imagine being in that position and just having no clue what to do or where to go or what to say. It was all chaos. I don't agree with their actions AFTER that day (or before) but ON that day, I would have to think that they were just flying by the seats of their pants and in a state of shock trying to process all of the info.

As someone who knows people directly impacted by this shooting, I do believe that they should be held responsible for their neglect of their son up-to-and-including the purchase of the gun for someone that clearly was not mentally well. My husband has guns and I would never EVER sign on to the idea that simply "hiding" them somewhere in an unlocked drawer in an unlocked case apart from the ammunition is sufficient protection against the worst possible thing happening. They are much younger than EC, but they are still perfectly capable of snooping around. A 15 year old boy who had been shooting multiple times and was extremely familiar with guns is a risk with or without mental health issues. It was just blatant neglect and irresponsibility on their part to assume that nothing would ever happen.
 
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