MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, shooting at Oxford High School, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents*

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I'm a bit confused by the charges. The child is charged as an adult, but now his parents are responsible for that "adult's" decisions? How does that work?

If he's charged as a child, then consider the role of the parents. Since he's charged as an adult, parents cannot be held accountable for their "adult" children's decisions.
Being charged as an adult doesn't magically change him into an adult, it just moves him into the regular justice system instead of the juvenile justice system, for reasons outlined in the link I previously posted. He, and his parents, are still subject to laws concerning restrictions and responsibilities concerning minors. Moo.
 
Crumbley's motive for the shooting remains unconfirmed by police, but kids at the school say he was being bullied. In the days before Tuesday's attack, he posted on Instagram to boast about his father's new Sig Sauer 9mm handgun, pretending it was his.

'Just got my new beauty today. SIG Sauer 9MM. Ask any questions I will answer,' he wrote in a post last week on an Instagram account that has now been deleted. Other fake accounts were circulating online on Wednesday morning as Crumbley remained in police custody, refusing to cooperate with investigators.

PICTURED: 'Bullied' Michigan high school shooter Ethan Crumbley | Daily Mail Online

From the above Daily Mail Online article in the above post by @steeltowngirl, (thanks, steeltowngirl) it said that Crumbley would be housed at the "Oakland County Children's Village."
I checked that institution and found this -- it states that, in addition to other juveniles, it houses "juveniles awaiting court proceedings." It is interesting reading -- it has "Counseling Services," a "Family Therapy" section, and several other possible pertinent services.

Here is an excerpt from the "Programs and Services" section WRT "Residential Treatment - Secure Detention" --
-----------------------
All youth entering detention are given the Massachusetts Youth Screening Instrument 2 (MAYSI-2). The MASYI-2 is a brief screening instrument designed to identify potential mental health needs. The MAYSI-2 provides information that alerts staff to the potential for the following mental and behavioral problems: Alcohol/Drug Use, Angry-Irritable, Depressed-Anxious, Somatic Complaints, Suicide Ideation, Thought Disturbance and Traumatic Experiences. Youth that elicit a high score in any of the above areas are referred to a Clinician for immediate follow-up.
-----------------------
More here:
Programs & Services | Oakland County Children's Village
-----------------------
So we'll see (I hope) how that goes...
 
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Mixed emotions as to the school's culpability.

I'm a teacher who retired recently after 25 years of teaching 8th grade in NYC. I'm also a mother and grandmother.

Over the years I think I've encountered nearly every situation imaginable. We are mandated reporters, which includes reporting on anything that even hints of violence. In the years before cell phones, I used to rip the page out of the notebook if a child drew a picture of a gun, or of gang symbols, or anything suggesting self-harm. I would bring these (or any essays involving the same) to the guidance counselor and the assistant principal. They would contact the parent or guardian, and then they would make the judgment call about the threat level. Post- cell phones I would take a picture and text that immediately to my superiors, who would always come and escort that child from the classroom.

Regarding the rights of a child---it is so true that we have a heart for the children. It is also so true that we don't see even the troublemakers as little monsters. Yet we have a heart and the responsibility for ALL the children under our tutelage, which IMO and experience requires the removal from school of anyone who even slightly seems capable of harm.

We have searched bookbags on multiple occasions, even for something like a red laser light, or on Halloween to search for eggs. This is something that the parents/guardians have to sign off on when we distribute a first day of school contract.

The one time we did have an actual school shooter, in my last year of teaching, it was a child who had never demonstrated any suspicious behavior. He did not shoot the gun in the end, thankfully, but it was a very frightening all-day lockdown.

As to the parents---IMO the mother seems demonic. Texting her son "lol I'm not mad learn how not to get caught" is wildly inappropriate and clearly off the wall bad parenting. Her stepson leaving the home due to conflict with her, her rambling letter to Trump, her prior arrests all point to a reckless and heedless mother, IMO. The parents buying him a gun for Christmas when he is underage? Unspeakable.

However, the apple falling far from the tree is not always the case. There have been a multitude of good parents who were stunned when their child turns out this way.

If the parents are indeed fugitives then I hope when they are caught that every available charge is thrown at them. To think they'd leave their 15 year old to deal with this and would rather hightail it.

No words.

All jmo.
 
Being charged as an adult doesn't magically change him into an adult, it just moves him into the regular justice system instead of the juvenile justice system, for reasons outlined in the link I previously posted. He, and his parents, are still subject to laws concerning restrictions and responsibilities concerning minors. Moo.

Quite true, however, he is charged as an adult - meaning he made decisions and acted as an adult. His parents cannot be responsible for those adult decisions.
 
Being charged as an adult doesn't magically change him into an adult, it just moves him into the regular justice system instead of the juvenile justice system, for reasons outlined in the link I previously posted. He, and his parents, are still subject to laws concerning restrictions and responsibilities concerning minors. Moo.

Agree. For starters, it is not legal for a 15-year-old to purchase, own, or carry a gun.
 
From the above Daily Mail Online article above, it said that Crumbley would be housed at the "Oakland County Children's Village." I checked that institution and found this -- it states that it houses "juveniles awaiting court proceedings." Here is an excerpt from the "Programs and Services" section WRT "Residential Treatment - Secure Detention:
-----------------------
All youth entering detention are given the Massachusetts Youth Screening Instrument 2 (MAYSI-2). The MASYI-2 is a brief screening instrument designed to identify potential mental health needs. The MAYSI-2 provides information that alerts staff to the potential for the following mental and behavioral problems: Alcohol/Drug Use, Angry-Irritable, Depressed-Anxious, Somatic Complaints, Suicide Ideation, Thought Disturbance and Traumatic Experiences. Youth that elicit a high score in any of the above areas are referred to a Clinician for immediate follow-up.
-----------------------
More here:
Programs & Services | Oakland County Children's Village
-----------------------
So we'll see (I hope) how that goes...
He was already transferred to county jail.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wx...y-jail-moved-from-childrens-village?_amp=true
 
From the above Daily Mail Online article above, it said that Crumbley would be housed at the "Oakland County Children's Village." I checked that institution and found this -- it states that it houses "juveniles awaiting court proceedings." Here is an excerpt from the "Programs and Services" section WRT "Residential Treatment - Secure Detention:
-----------------------
Programs & Services | Oakland County Children's Village
-----------------------
So we'll see (I hope) how that goes...

EC was transferred to an Oakland County jail following his arraignment. He is in a secluded area away from adult inmates.
 
Suspect's parents did not flee and are returning soon, their attorneys say

From CNN’s Carolyn Sung and Mark Morales

Two attorneys working with Jennifer and James Crumbley, the parents of the Michigan school shooting suspect, say the couple left town on the night of the shooting “for their own safety” and are not fleeing.

Live updates: Oxford High School shooting in Michigan

So they left before the shooter’s name was released. They could have gone to Canada immediately.
 
Quite true, however, he is charged as an adult - meaning he made decisions and acted as an adult. His parents cannot be responsible for those adult decisions.
I don’t think being charged as an adult is intended to mean he acted as an adult. It just means his crime meets the criteria of over 14 and a felony. This puts you into the adult system.
 
I'm a bit confused by the charges. The child is charged as an adult, but now his parents are responsible for that "adult's" decisions? How does that work?

If he's charged as a child, then consider the role of the parents. Since he's charged as an adult, parents cannot be held accountable for their "adult" children's decisions.

Quite true, however, he is charged as an adult - meaning he made decisions and acted as an adult. His parents cannot be responsible for those adult decisions.

I see your point, yet he is still in fact a minor. Anyway, IMO the parents are accessories to the crime. They purchased and furnished him with the gun, which he would have been unable to achieve on his own.
 
I'm a bit confused by the charges. The child is charged as an adult, but now his parents are responsible for that "adult's" decisions? How does that work?

If he's charged as a child, then consider the role of the parents. Since he's charged as an adult, parents cannot be held accountable for their "adult" children's decisions.

I can think of several ways to do it, including the felony murder rule. However, in this case, the parents gave a gun to a person who is under age (and further, have said it was an actual gift - that's illegal). When one illegal act is in the midst of a set of illegal acts, and some of the parties aided and abetted another party through an illegal or negligent act, they become subject to the felony murder rule. Giving a firearm to someone underage is considered a negligent and illegal act.

This has nothing to do with the person who was aided or abetted being a minor. I had a student who was a minor himself at the time when a friend of his got into a fist fight and killed a person at a large party. He and his friends had acted recklessly by crashing the party. He was charged with first degree murder. He also drove the actual killer in his car after the episode.

In this case, the parents negligently and illegally gave a child a gun, and the child then committed a terrible crime (possibly terrorism) which puts him in line to be charged as an adult. They are now part of his crime.

The vast majority of states have similar laws and people under 18 can be charged as adults - and are - throughout America, if their crime is deemed severe enough and their planning shows "adult-like" qualities (such as lying to the principal, having a gun during the meeting with the principal, previous threats nd so on).

That's just how the laws work here.
 
correction, photo is a screen cap from their zoom appearance at Ethan's arraignment the other day. appears they attended the hearing via their vehicle. This leads me to speculate they were already on the move at that point.
I agree. It makes sense that they were already on their way out of the area. It may be their normal type of attire, but to me it looks like they are wearing some form of bug out clothing.
 
I'm a bit confused by the charges. The child is charged as an adult, but now his parents are responsible for that "adult's" decisions? How does that work?

If he's charged as a child, then consider the role of the parents. Since he's charged as an adult, parents cannot be held accountable for their "adult" children's decisions.

The charges aren't related to his age. They're related to failing to alert the school that he owned a gun and might be in possession of it while at school. They were also aware of his dangerous behavior at school. The mom had texted him to "not get caught" when teachers caught him searching to buy ammunition on his cell phone during class time at school. The mom found out he got in trouble for doing that and told him next time, make sure you don't get caught.

Quite a few things, having to do with knowing he was dangerous, had a weapon, etc. and covered it up, did nothing about it, didn't alert school officials. The same charges would apply if he were an adult.
 
Mixed emotions as to the school's culpability.

I'm a teacher who retired recently after 25 years of teaching 8th grade in NYC. I'm also a mother and grandmother.

Over the years I think I've encountered nearly every situation imaginable. We are mandated reporters, which includes reporting on anything that even hints of violence. In the years before cell phones, I used to rip the page out of the notebook if a child drew a picture of a gun, or of gang symbols, or anything suggesting self-harm. I would bring these (or any essays involving the same) to the guidance counselor and the assistant principal. They would contact the parent or guardian, and then they would make the judgment call about the threat level. Post- cell phones I would take a picture and text that immediately to my superiors, who would always come and escort that child from the classroom.

Regarding the rights of a child---it is so true that we have a heart for the children. It is also so true that we don't see even the troublemakers as little monsters. Yet we have a heart and the responsibility for ALL the children under our tutelage, which IMO and experience requires the removal from school of anyone who even slightly seems capable of harm.

We have searched bookbags on multiple occasions, even for something like a red laser light, or on Halloween to search for eggs. This is something that the parents/guardians have to sign off on when we distribute a first day of school contract.

The one time we did have an actual school shooter, in my last year of teaching, it was a child who had never demonstrated any suspicious behavior. He did not shoot the gun in the end, thankfully, but it was a very frightening all-day lockdown.

As to the parents---IMO the mother seems demonic. Texting her son "lol I'm not mad learn how not to get caught" is wildly inappropriate and clearly off the wall bad parenting. Her stepson leaving the home due to conflict with her, her rambling letter to Trump, her prior arrests all point to a reckless and heedless mother, IMO. The parents buying him a gun for Christmas when he is underage? Unspeakable.

However, the apple falling far from the tree is not always the case. There have been a multitude of good parents who were stunned when their child turns out this way.

If the parents are indeed fugitives then I hope when they are caught that every available charge is thrown at them. To think they'd leave their 15 year old to deal with this and would rather hightail it.

No words.

All jmo.

I hope we don't learn that she actually instigated what happened - but my hinky sense is turned on.

I also hope that this case continues to get publicity and that all around the US, this sets a precedent for the courts to act on such cases.
 
Quite true, however, he is charged as an adult - meaning he made decisions and acted as an adult. His parents cannot be responsible for those adult decisions.
No, that is not what being tried as an adult means. It means he will be tried IN THE SAME MANNER as an adult. Here is the link again so you can understand Michigan's laws.
Michigan Legislature - Section 712A.2d
 
<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

LE has a BOLO out on the couple and are asking the public to contact them if they see them or the car. LE hasn't changed their position on this, and that's a good thing. They haven't been able to trust these parents on anything so far, why should they now?
 
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Quite true, however, he is charged as an adult - meaning he made decisions and acted as an adult. His parents cannot be responsible for those adult decisions.

The parents of the teen accused of fatally shooting four people at a Michigan high school have been charged in connection with the rampage, prosecutors announced Friday. James and Jennifer Crumbley have each been charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

Parents of Michigan school shooting suspect charged

I am trying to follow your reasoning here. The parents are charged with involuntary manslaughter which has nothing to do with if their son is a minor charged as an adult or a minor charged as a minor?

Involuntary manslaughter (also called criminally negligent manslaughter) occurs when a person is accidentally killed due to someone else's criminal negligence, or when someone is killed during another crime, where the intent was not to cause bodily injury or death. Unlike a murder charge, involuntary manslaughter means that a person had no intention of killing another, but due to their careless or reckless actions caused the death of a human being.
Michigan Involuntary Manslaughter Law - FindLaw

Their neglect of their son's issues and the threat he posed, their purchasing and making a available to him a weapon, their refusal to take him from school that day after the meeting with administration about the threat/drawing, all contributed, even if it was not their intention, to the murders their son committed. but for their actions (or inactions as they case may be) those four students would not be dead. So the charges are appropriate IMO
 
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