GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[Jacie Estes]

I am always left in profound awe and love for how First Nation People address death and dying. With so much love, with no judgment. What a beautiful way to see the world.

For me, it is just knowing that our loved ones have walked over, they've gone on ahead but we will catch up to them one day. The 'connection' never leaves, never ends.

A drum circle helps too. When my mom passed, we had a drum circle and it was so moving. Soothing and cathartic at the same time.

Carnel went through horror but he is beyond that now.

 

[ynotdivein]

If a link comes up ******, it means that that site is not approved to link to here at WS.

:tyou:

 

[ynotdivein]

A bit of a refresher here.

1. PLEASE read the WS TOS and Rules Forum here. Every member is expected to abide by these standards.

2. Social media sites such as FB are not permitted to be linked unless they are the victim's or certain pre-approved support sites. We can't copy and post comments from any of these sites but if a social media site is approved, a poster can provide other readers with suggestions on how to locate to the quote of interest (time, location on page, etc.).

3. Random speculation is not sleuthing. If you must speculate, back it up with MSM links.

Where this post lands is random. :tyou:

 

[seattlechiquita]

For me, it is just knowing that our loved ones have walked over, they've gone on ahead but we will catch up to them one day. The 'connection' never leaves, never ends.

A drum circle helps too. When my mom passed, we had a drum circle and it was so moving. Soothing and cathartic at the same time.

Carnel went through horror but he is beyond that now.

He is. He has passed on to be with the ones who walked before him.

Drum circles and pow wows are the most spiritual of experiences I have had. I was blessed to be welcomed into the Plains Cree nation during graduate school in Saskatchewan. My outlook on life has never been the same.

Love to Carnell.

 

[Knox]

I still have pages and pages to catch up. Has this been verified anywhere or is it still considered social network 'rumor'. I'm curious as to why this brother is posting on someone else's FB page. Why doesn't he just start one of his own? It's really bizzare, imo, for anyone over 13 to be posting one someone else's FB page. Sorry, but they are free and easy to set up, no need to use someone else's. Unless this person claiming to be the brother is a troll.

Perhaps not everyone is as computer/IT savy as we are, who knows?

Family members are responding to his posts, so pretty sure it's him.

 

[tlcya]

(CBS/AP) BAY CITY, Mich. - The body of 4-year-old Michigan boy Carnel Chamberlain was so badly burned that authorities had trouble identifying it as human remains, a prosecutor said Tuesday as a judge refused to grant bond to the man accused of abusing the child weeks earlier.

The courtroom remarks were the first public disclosure by federal authorities since Carnel's body was discovered under his house last week on the Saginaw Chippewa Indian reservation, 70 miles north of Lansing.

No one has been charged with the boy's death. Anthony Bennett, who was supposed to be watching Carnel on the last day the boy was seen alive, has been charged with assaulting him in late May or early June.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Charles Binder declined to grant bail to Bennett, which means he will stay in jail while the investigation continues

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ain-4-had-been-burned-buried-prosecutor-says/

 

[tlcya]

Talking to WWJ Newsradio 950 last week, Carnel’s mother said she began to suspect Bennett was hiding something when he failed to join her in her frantic search for the child. Police said he was initially uncooperative in their investigation

snip

In a court filing, the FBI said Jaimee Chamberlain witnessed some of the abuse that led to assault charges against Bennett, a disclosure that surprised and disappointed her family.

“We can’t condone the actions, or inactions, of anybody in the home,” said family spokesman Kevin Chamberlain, a cousin. “It’s unfortunate. Her inactions certainly didn’t help where we are today. It’s a tough pill to swallow.”

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/07/04/feds-body-of-mid-mich-boy-had-been-burned-buried/

 

[tlcya]

Prayers for this family as this case develops. So sad for all involved. My heart goes out to Kevin Chamberlain, especially. I think he is doing an admirable job as family spokesman. No one wants to be in that position but I think he is doing a good job of a tough job thus far.

 

[tlcya]

http://birchrunchamber.org/carnel-c...bor-his-spirits-going-to-talk-to-authorities/

Hope this is a linkable source.

“It just hurts,” Chatfield said. “This is too close to home.”

“It’s hard to get over. I have to live here, to see where he was dug up.”

Her plan is to contact a tribal medicine man to hold a healing ceremony on her property and her niece’s, and to bless the spot where Carnel’s body was.

Chatfield believes Carnel’s body and spirit will help authorities show how he was killed.

“His spirit’s gonna talk,” she said.

Again, prayers for this family and the tribe as they walk the long road ahead.

 

[katydid23]

I agree ticox. The friends and neighbors and family have a long road ahead. We know there are two little girls who live right by Carnal's yard and used to play with him almost everyday. This must be devastating for them and for their families. How do you explain this evil to your child when their little playmate is slaughtered right next door? I am so impressed by the tribal spokesman, who seems to be doinbg a great job imparting the spiritual wisdom that they will rely upon to help heal the tribe.

 

[Cubby]

Bennett was in trouble with the law seven times since his 17th birthday and never complied with court orders.
The charges include convictions of assault and battery, family violence, resisting and obstructing arrest and fleeing and eluding police in the fourth degree. He served time in jail and was given probation following the offenses.
Bennett has committed two probation violations in 2012 and was on probation when 4-year-old Carnel Chamberlain went missing

Bennett fled and fought with police before being arrested on that occasion, Wininger said.

A urinalysis test revealed marijuana and synthetic marijuana in Bennett's system in January 2012 and again on April 2012, Wininger told the court.
He did not complete a court-ordered mental health assessment in 2012, Wininger said.

He served another 15 days after a probation violation in May 2012, Wininger said, and noted several other offenses Bennett had as a minor.


http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/prosecutor_anthony_bennett_cha.html

This kind of history with this guy, he was CONVICTED of dv in the past. Not just accused, but convicted.

He violated a restraining order, seemingly against his sister for abuse against his family. How on earth could anyone come to the conclusion there is no possible way Jaimee was a victim of DV? First of all, he was in HER HOME. HER home, not his. Imagine how a young 21 yr old mother must have felt with this guy in her home? How does one leave/flee their own home? She either had to abandoned her home to him, or go through the eviction process to get him out, if I understand the residency laws correctly. If he resided there for sometime, he would have established residency and the standard way to get rid of him would be through eviction with the local sheriff.

Addtionally, there are 3 probation violations we are aware of in 2012. Certainly his probation officer knew where he resided and that he resided with a minor child. Why didn't the authorities put his tail back in jail and or prison with the numerous 2012 violations of probation? Or why wasn't there any notification of concern from his probation officer when he failed his urine drops and was known to be using around a child?

It's not like AB wasn't already under the eye of authorities when this all occured. How does one commit such heinious acts, while allegedly on probation and under the watchful eye of authorities?

Probation sounds like it is not taken seriously on the rez or in Isabella county. Not at all seriously. I wonder why not?

 

[Jacie Estes]

Earlier in this thread, someone asked if Dominick's Law would apply to Carnel's case. The answer is NO because it is Tribal land. Explanation in video:

http://www.wnem.com/video?clipId=7468525&autostart=true

 

[FrayedKnot]

Prayers for this family as this case develops. So sad for all involved. My heart goes out to Kevin Chamberlain, especially. I think he is doing an admirable job as family spokesman. No one wants to be in that position but I think he is doing a good job of a tough job thus far.

ITA. Kevin Chamberlain appears to be a rock for his family. Thank God he is there for them.

 

[katydid23]

Once she saw AB picking up her son by the neck and dropping him to the floor, she needed to take action to protect her child. She could have had family babysit while she worked. Her aunt lived next door, her mother very close too. Either would have gladly watched him in the evenings.

I think the thing that has angered some, including myself, was her own words. Where she included herself in the corporal punishment. Where she said that WE ARE TRAINING CARNEL TO BE A MAN. That shows that she was OK with AB punching and dragging this baby around the house. She was not afraid for her life, imo, she was going along with the program.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Bennett was in trouble with the law seven times since his 17th birthday and never complied with court orders.
The charges include convictions of assault and battery, family violence, resisting and obstructing arrest and fleeing and eluding police in the fourth degree. He served time in jail and was given probation following the offenses.
Bennett has committed two probation violations in 2012 and was on probation when 4-year-old Carnel Chamberlain went missing

Bennett fled and fought with police before being arrested on that occasion, Wininger said.

A urinalysis test revealed marijuana and synthetic marijuana in Bennett's system in January 2012 and again on April 2012, Wininger told the court.
He did not complete a court-ordered mental health assessment in 2012, Wininger said.

He served another 15 days after a probation violation in May 2012, Wininger said, and noted several other offenses Bennett had as a minor.


http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/prosecutor_anthony_bennett_cha.html

This kind of history with this guy, he was CONVICTED of dv in the past. Not just accused, but convicted.

He violated a restraining order, seemingly against his sister for abuse against his family. How on earth could anyone come to the conclusion there is no possible way Jaimee was a victim of DV? First of all, he was in HER HOME. HER home, not his. Imagine how a young 21 yr old mother must have felt with this guy in her home? How does one leave/flee their own home? She either had to abandoned her home to him, or go through the eviction process to get him out, if I understand the residency laws correctly. If he resided there for sometime, he would have established residency and the standard way to get rid of him would be through eviction with the local sheriff.

Addtionally, there are 3 probation violations we are aware of in 2012. Certainly his probation officer knew where he resided and that he resided with a minor child. Why didn't the authorities put his tail back in jail and or prison with the numerous 2012 violations of probation? Or why wasn't there any notification of concern from his probation officer when he failed his urine drops and was known to be using around a child?

It's not like AB wasn't already under the eye of authorities when this all occured. How does one commit such heinious acts, while allegedly on probation and under the watchful eye of authorities?

Probation sounds like it is not taken seriously on the rez or in Isabella county. Not at all seriously. I wonder why not?

It's an Occam's Razor thought, for me. His history, her age and the brutality of the death of Carnel led me to believe that she was in over her head. AB was not just a loose cannon but a nuclear meltdown and Jaimee didn't have the tools to respond to that behavior. The best course of action for Jaimee would have been a TRO, Temporary Restraining Order which would have removed him from the house, at that time. The sad thing is that TROs and OsOP, Orders of Protection, are only pieces of paper.

The cycle of violence in domestic abuse
Domestic abuse falls into a common pattern, or cycle of violence:

Abuse – Your abusive partner lashes out with aggressive, belittling, or violent behavior. The abuse is a power play designed to show you "who is boss."
Guilt – After abusing you, your partner feels guilt, but not over what he's done. He’s more worried about the possibility of being caught and facing consequences for his abusive behavior.
Excuses – Your abuser rationalizes what he or she has done. The person may come up with a string of excuses or blame you for the abusive behavior—anything to avoid taking responsibility.
"Normal" behavior — The abuser does everything he can to regain control and keep the victim in the relationship. He may act as if nothing has happened, or he may turn on the charm. This peaceful honeymoon phase may give the victim hope that the abuser has really changed this time.
Fantasy and planning – Your abuser begins to fantasize about abusing you again. He spends a lot of time thinking about what you’ve done wrong and how he'll make you pay. Then he makes a plan for turning the fantasy of abuse into reality.
Set-up – Your abuser sets you up and puts his plan in motion, creating a situation where he can justify abusing you.
Your abuser’s apologies and loving gestures in between the episodes of abuse can make it difficult to leave. He may make you believe that you are the only person who can help him, that things will be different this time, and that he truly loves you. However, the dangers of staying are very real.


http://www.helpguide.org/mental/domestic_violence_abuse_types_signs_causes_effects.htm#cycle

I am surprised that no one noticed, in her immediate surroundings and in the community. The probation officer, as you have stated, was remiss in allowing him to live there.
****

THIS IS THE BEST LIST OF NUMBERS I HAVE SEEN SO FAR:
Women don’t have to live in fear:
In the US: call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE).
UK: call Women’s Aid at 0808 2000 247.
Canada: call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-363-9010.
Australia: call 1800RESPECT at 1800 737 732.
Worldwide: visit International Directory of Domestic Violence Agencies for a global list of helplines and crisis centers.

Male victims of abuse can call:
U.S. and Canada: The Domestic Abuse Helpline for Men & Women
UK: ManKind Initiative
Australia: One in Three Campaign

 

[FrayedKnot]

Once she saw AB picking up her son by the neck and dropping him to the floor, she needed to take action to protect her child. She could have had family babysit while she worked. Her aunt lived next door, her mother very close too. Either would have gladly watched him in the evenings.

I think the thing that has angered some, including myself, was her own words. Where she included herself in the corporal punishment. Where she said that WE ARE TRAINING CARNEL TO BE A MAN. That shows that she was OK with AB punching and dragging this baby around the house. She was not afraid for her life, imo, she was going along with the program.

If Mr. Knot (who is not my DD's dad) even so much as moved toward her to strike her, he would be the ex Mr. Knot and also wearing an orange jumpsuit.

I'm serious as a heart attack.

 

[Cubby]

Once she saw AB picking up her son by the neck and dropping him to the floor, she needed to take action to protect her child. She could have had family babysit while she worked. Her aunt lived next door, her mother very close too. Either would have gladly watched him in the evenings.

I think the thing that has angered some, including myself, was her own words. Where she included herself in the corporal punishment. Where she said that WE ARE TRAINING CARNEL TO BE A MAN. That shows that she was OK with AB punching and dragging this baby around the house. She was not afraid for her life, imo, she was going along with the program.

I understand and hear your concerns with regards to those words. I do, I really do. Especially being a never married single mom to a boy myself.

In general, there are certain things a father, a good father role, can teach a male child that a mother or female motherly role can not teach a male child. That aside, I think she was clueless. I think she was absolutely clueless and unable to recognize healthy versus unhealthy male roles for her son, which is why she bought his line of this type of behavior will teach Carnal to be a man.

There is SOMETHING in this womans life, that for some reason, domestic violence and drug abuse/habitual drug abuse which constitues addiction, not just the occasional recreational usage is normal to JC. I don't know enough about the indian reservation life style to understand. I'm from Chicago. Generations of my family are from Chicago, or the old country.

There is clearly something in this mothers life where the other males in the family, apparently did not step in. My son is fortunate in that my father, my step father, and my sons godmothers husband, who is a deacon, are all active positive male role models in my sons life.

I don't see any evidence of ANY male role models stepping up to the plate for this young mother and young child until he was brutally murdered. Sadly, I just don't. And it makes me realize just how lucky my son and I are with the positive male role models in our lives.

A lot of people failed Carnel. His mother, his biological family, his community and the system ALL failed Carnel, imo.

 

[Woodland]

Is there a link to Jamie saying she was a victim of DV, either before or immediately after her son was found deceased? AB being in her home makes her a victim? Sorry, not following.

 

[katydid23]

I understand and hear your concerns with regards to those words. I do, I really do. Especially being a never married single mom to a boy myself.

In general, there are certain things a father, a good father role, can teach a male child that a mother or female motherly role can not teach a male child. That aside, I think she was clueless. I think she was absolutely clueless and unable to recognize healthy versus unhealthy male roles for her son, which is why she bought his line of this type of behavior will teach Carnal to be a man.

There is SOMETHING in this womans life, that for some reason, domestic violence and drug abuse/habitual drug abuse which constitues addiction, not just the occasional recreational usage is normal to JC. I don't know enough about the indian reservation life style to understand. I'm from Chicago. Generations of my family are from Chicago, or the old country.

There is clearly something in this mothers life where the other males in the family, apparently did not step in. My son is fortunate in that my father, my step father, and my sons godmothers husband, who is a deacon, are all active positive male role models in my sons life.

I don't see any evidence of ANY male role models stepping up to the plate for this young mother and young child until he was brutally murdered. Sadly, I just don't. And it makes me realize just how lucky my son and I are with the positive male role models in our lives.

A lot of people failed Carnel. His mother, his biological family, his community and the system ALL failed Carnel, imo.

I agree with everything that you said. I agree also that the males in Carnel's life failed him and they failed Jaimie. She was clueless and did not know a healthy male role model. But at the same time, it is a maternal gut instinct, imo, to stop someone from punching your 4 yr old or picking him up by the neck. And that is where my anger stems from.

How did she ever allow this violent, ugly, felon to even move in to her home in the first place?

 

[Cubby]

I agree with everything that you said. I agree also that the males in Carnel's life failed him and they failed Jaimie. She was clueless and did not know a healthy male role model. But at the same time, it is a maternal gut instinct, imo, to stop someone from punching your 4 yr old or picking him up by the neck. And that is where my anger stems from.

How did she ever allow this violent, ugly, felon to even move in to her home in the first place?

There is-that instinct, I agree.

What I find myself wondering, is why we don't see evidence of abuse in the most recent photo of Carnel? The one with the short hair, which I recall was shaved 1 week prior to his disappearance/murder. Not sure of the source regarding the time of the headshave/haircut, nor am I certain that time has been confirmed.

In the photo with the short hair, in the LR with the TV in the background, which was used in the NCMEC photo, I think I see what might be a slight bruising on his left temple area and really, I don't see any marks on or near Carnel's rib cage. Nothing stands out in that photo to me, which would be alarming, as did the photo's we saw of little Ethan, which was clear abuse ignored by his mother.

I personally still have a lot of unanswered questions. Such as was AB using the day he (allegedly) murdered Carnel prior to mom leaving for work?


If he did 15 days in jail for probation violation in May, why did Jaimee allow him back into her home?

Why wasn't his probation officer concerned? Aren't probation officers mandatory reporters? And shouldn't his failed urine drops been cause for a red flag?