MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #2

[rosesfromangels]

Non-compliance with therapy during the manic part of manic depressive cycles gets out of hand if the individual has an enabling support system and isn't self regulating, it seems to me. Whatever enabled Turnquist is what may have been at risk and may have cost Julia's life, it seems to me, given recent developments, but who know?

Now this is a very interesting concept FindHG. If I'm understanding your post, you are suggesting that (as an example) Julia might have been trying to talk her mother in to leaving the POI, or perhaps might have been threatening to expose some nefarious activity she knew about? I've always thought Julia knew something she was being "silenced" for, but the tie back to the mother is an interesting concept. The possibility of the POI losing his "enabler", the mother, is very insightful.

 

[FindHG]

Now this is a very interesting concept FindHG. If I'm understanding your post, you are suggesting that (as an example) Julia might have been trying to talk her mother in to leaving the POI, or perhaps might have been threatening to expose some nefarious activity she knew about? I've always thought Julia knew something she was being "silenced" for, but the tie back to the mother is an interesting concept. The possibility of the POI losing his "enabler", the mother, is very insightful.

Exactly. I think don't she is so much enabled him as was part of the setup. Turnquist's $$$ didn't come from Kim, if I'm not mistaken, front row red crew or some kind of business thing, who knows?

I so appreciate Trojan1966's contribution to our understanding of it all. I'm sorry for how this touches him.

 

[Spellbound]

Although most bipolar people are not violent, there is the possibility of a connection. I wonder if JT has a substance abuse issue. These are snippets from articles on the subject:


http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/bipolar-disorder/violence-bipolar-disorder


Traumatic experiences in childhood have been linked to the potential for violence in adulthood as well as to vulnerability to psychiatric disorders. Bipolar disorder has been linked to traumatic childhood experience and to the potential for violence.

Childhood trauma history has been found to correlate with increased aggression in adults with and without affective disorders.


The prevalence of childhood trauma in persons with bipolar disorder combined with the risks that arise from the symptoms of the disorder itself renders bipolar patients at increased risk for violent behavior.


Bipolar patients are prone to agitation that can result in impulsive aggression during manic and mixed episodes. However, depressed states can involve intense dysphoria with agitation and irritability, which can also increase the risk of violent behavior. Bipolar patients may have chronic impulsivity during euthymia, predisposing them to aggression.


Impulsive aggression (as opposed to premeditated aggression) is most commonly associated with bipolar and other affective disorders


...while impulsive aggression is a response to perceived threat...


Bipolar patients are most prone to violence during manic or mixed states—when maximum behavioral dyscontrol is combined with unrealistic beliefs. Patients with dysphoric mania and mixed states may be at especially high risk; the assessment for concurrent depression in a manic patient should therefore be a priority.


Impulsivity is a prominent feature of bipolar disorder. Information about previous impulsive acts, especially acts of impulsive aggression, can give the clinician an idea of a person’s likelihood to commit violence on impulse. Often, patients with bipolar disorder will use alcohol and other drugs to self-medicate mood episodes or as part of the pleasure-seeking behavior of a manic episode.
====
http://www.healthline.com/health-blogs/bipolar-bites/violence-bipolar-disorder


in people without a psychiatric condition aggressive behavior was found in 0.66 percent of persons over the course of their lifetime. In people with bipolar disorder I, the number climbs to a shocking 25.34 percent and in bipolar II the number is 13.58 percent.


In another study from Sweden, it was found that 9.5 percent of people with bipolar disorder committed a violent crime at some point after their initial diagnosis as compared to 1.7 percent of the general population. Again, this risk was much higher in those with substance abuse comorbidities but this did not entirely account for the increase.


It was found that those who have experienced mania are at the highest risk for violence


======
http://bipolar.about.com/b/2013/09/02/risk-factors-for-violence-in-bipolar-disorder.htm


Since bipolar disorders alone carry some increased risk for violent behavior, a history of trauma in childhood in a person with bipolar disorder thus raises that risk considerably


Other factors increasing risk for violent behaviors include: borderline personality disorder, history of impulsive acts, substance abuse.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by the direction of the discussions here. The more I read, the more I realize that LE is being fed speculation rather than truths by people with self-serving agendas.

 

[Spellbound]

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by the direction of the discussions here. The more I read, the more I realize that LE is being fed speculation rather than truths by people with self-serving agendas.

I am a little confused by your thought. We here can only speculate. Do you think we are wrong for that? Or do you believe LE has not gotten the correct facts from their own interviews?

Welcome to the discussion.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I'm absolutely dumbfounded by the direction of the discussions here. The more I read, the more I realize that LE is being fed speculation rather than truths by people with self-serving agendas.

Hi there and welcome! :greetings:
If you think we are speculating in the wrong direction, please offer up your viewpoint. We are interested!

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

By strict disciplinarian do you mean he would not allow Julia to be out all night partying and come in at all hours of the night, as was perhaps allowed at Grandma's house? Being a mother myself, I certainly did not allow my older children to come and go as they pleased. House rules are followed by all. To have that privilege of making the rules, they can move out and pay their own bills.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think diciplinary discussions should have been handled by the birth mother, not the step father. But that's my personal opinion. Most especially if this man has impulse control issues. Up thread there was discussion of him using a wooden spoon (?) on the girls. Absolutely out of line, and even more so because he is a step father.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I am a little confused by your thought. We here can only speculate. Do you think we are wrong for that? Or do you believe LE has not gotten the correct facts from their own interviews?

Welcome to the discussion.

I think perhaps opinions and facts have blended too many times and I certainly hope that LE does realize there are a few people they have gotten information from definitely have self-serving agendas.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Thank you for the welcome. I am rather frustrated after reading so many posts! I'm not even sure where to start! I have followed this case from the very beginning and want Justice for Julia just as much as everyone else, but I certainly don't want to witness a witch hunt for the wrong person! It's crazy to learn recently that the fingerprints from one of the roommates was just recently sent in for examination and LE are just now trying to gather them from the other!

I agree that everyone should be cleared, and that includes Mr. Turnquist. However, it appears he is not doing everything LE has asked for, and therefor he remains in the eye of suspicion. Why doesn't he get this over with if he is not involved? He appears to be his own worst enemy in this scenario.

He hasn't told LE where he was the days leading up to the murder. He has been arrested for child *advertiser censored*. He is bipolar and goes off his meds. That does not equate to a witch hunt to me. It points to LE needing answers before they can check him off the list.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I think perhaps opinions and facts have blended too many times and I certainly hope that LE does realize there are a few people they have gotten information from definitely have self-serving agendas.

What are these self serving agendas, and what do these people have to gain? What is the motivation?

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

There was another one close to Ann Arbor and I'm trying to remember where the third was. Yes, they were all within a month of each other I do believe. The sub teacher guy is the one who was turned over to the Feds. Thank goodness the cyber teams working the internet are so good!!

 

[Spellbound]

SMH :doh: --- I even posted the article about the spoon, @ March 10. The allegations were not proven, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were not true. Just not proven. Still could be a possibility, I suppose.

http://t.monroenews.com/news/2015/m...ove-daughter-turnquist-home/?templates=tablet

#The reasons for citing intervention by DHS included accusations of abuse made in 2000 when Julia and her twin sister, Jennifer, were 11. Those allegations accused Mr. Turnquist of abusing the girls by taping their mouths shut and tearing off the tape; striking them with a wooden spoon and pan, and keeping food from them as a form of punishment, according to the documents.
#The accusations were investigated by Child Protective Services and no further action was taken. Mr. Stablein said no action was taken because they were false allegations and the case was dropped due to a lack of evidence.
#“There was no proof that it ever happened,” Mr. Stablein said. “The case was closed. Investigators found no evidence of abuse.”

 

[Spellbound]

Good discussions tonight, thanks. I have to get some sleep, so I will check back tomorrow. Keep your thoughts coming.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Exactly. I think don't she is so much enabled him as was part of the setup. Turnquist's $$$ didn't come from Kim, if I'm not mistaken, front row red crew or some kind of business thing, who knows?

I so appreciate Trojan1966's contribution to our understanding of it all. I'm sorry for how this touches him.

What makes you think there is Turnquist "money"? This family doesn't appear to be especially well-off from what I've seen. Didn't Trojan1966 post that the house the family lives in is approx. 900 sq.ft. with only two bedrooms (for a family of five at one time)? Jennifer and Julia lived at home while attending community college for at least two years before living away from home at EMU. It appears to me that both girls had part-time jobs early on and worked while they were full-time students. The young women deserved some down time, IMO, because both were motivated, goal-oriented, hard-working. I don't know for a fact, and perhaps Trojan1966 will let us know, but I'll assume that Jennifer and Julia paid at least part of their college tuition/room/board and/or applied for scholarships, grants, or student loans. It's my understanding that Kim has always worked, too. Turnquist money?

 

[black_squirrel]

There was another one close to Ann Arbor and I'm trying to remember where the third was. Yes, they were all within a month of each other I do believe. The sub teacher guy is the one who was turned over to the Feds. Thank goodness the cyber teams working the internet are so good!!

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/03/former_u-m_hospital_employee_c.html

Officials were tipped off when Germinder's coworkers at U-M observed an image of bestiality on his work computer in May, according to an affidavit signed by a special agent with Homeland Security.

I had heard about this one too. I don't think it has any relevance so I did not post it before. There are probably many such arrests in michigan every year. It would be
interesting to see the statistics on this. Most of those arrests do not make the headlines in the newspapers, unless there is something particular that makes it interesting.
In the other Monroe case, the quantity of 300,000 images is one of the largest ever seen. In the Ann Arbor case, the person had worked in the U of M health system.
Finding 7 possibly illegal images on JT's computer would not have made any headlines, if it weren't for the fact that he is a POI in Julia's death.
There is probably a child *advertiser censored* arrest every day somewhere in michigan. If one has ever watched "to catch a predator" it is clear that there is no shortage of offenders.
Having 3 cases is not a coincidence, so that is no reason to think that they are connected.

 

[black_squirrel]

What makes you think there is Turnquist "money"? This family doesn't appear to be especially well-off from what I've seen. Didn't Trojan1966 post that the house the family lives in is approx. 900 sq.ft. with only two bedrooms (for a family of five at one time)? Jennifer and Julia lived at home while attending community college for at least two years before living away from home at EMU. It appears to me that both girls had part-time jobs early on and worked while they were full-time students. The young women deserved some down time, IMO, because both were motivated, goal-oriented, hard-working. I don't know for a fact, and perhaps Trojan1966 will let us know, but I'll assume that Jennifer and Julia paid at least part of their college tuition/room/board and/or applied for scholarships, grants, or student loans. It's my understanding that Kim has always worked, too. Turnquist money?

I posted that before. You can look up houses on trulia.com and other real estate web sites. There are also records whether people owe property taxes.
JT does owe some (and so does his mother-in-law btw.) The family does not seem affluent and money is probably not a motive (unless there is life insurance...).

 

[rosesfromangels]

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2015/03/former_u-m_hospital_employee_c.html
Respectfully snipped
Having 3 cases is not a coincidence, so that is no reason to think that they are connected.[/

Having the largest bust in Monroe, Turnquist living there as well obviously raised a red flag. When did LE officially rule him out to these connections? Or is this speculation?

Thank you for fixing the broken quote Bessie. : )

 

[black_squirrel]

Having the largest bust in Monroe, Turnquist living there as well obviously raised a red flag. When did LE officially rule him out to these connections? Or is this speculation?

I was just stating my opinion. Did LE ever say that they are investigating whether there is a connection? Geographical location is not really so relevant for the spreading
of child *advertiser censored*, because it is mostly sent over the internet.

 

[black_squirrel]

Having the largest bust in Monroe, Turnquist living there as well obviously raised a red flag. When did LE officially rule him out to these connections? Or is this speculation?

I was just stating my opinion. Did LE ever say that they are investigating whether there is a connection? Geographical location is not really so relevant for the spreading
of child *advertiser censored*, because it is mostly sent over the internet.