MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[FindHG]

As much as we could use their help out here I fear anything they would say would be shredded to pieces. JMO

You and MIMOMMY have posted on thread since forever and have been shown respect and consideration throughout as you have monitored and helped keep things in line by having comments removed and such. WS is for families, so I have no doubt, that both of them, in respect to their kinship, Jen's amazing intelligent perspective which could really help get to truth, and closeness will receive the utmost respect, even perhaps more so then people a few degrees apart from closeness to Julia. Most posting here do so with the most noble and good intent from what I've seen, out of love, loyalty, and sense of justice which is apparent from all the insiders, naturally.

 

[rosesfromangels]

As much as we could use their help out here I fear anything they would say would be shredded to pieces. JMO

We will not permit that to happen. We will surround them with love, support, and protection. Our mods will help us to see their experience is positive. We need to all align to move this forward; can, and are.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

You and MIMOMMY have posted on thread since forever and have been shown respect and consideration throughout as you have monitored and helped keep things in line by having comments removed and such. WS is for families, so I have no doubt, that both of them, in respect to their kinship, Jen's amazing intelligent perspective which could really help get to truth, and closeness will receive the utmost respect, much more so then people a few degrees apart from closeness to Julia.

I have never contacted a Mod to have any posts removed, and only questioned a minor child's name being repeatedly mentioned. I realize that both Kim and Jen are amazing individuals, but I respectfully disagree with you about how they will be treated out here as they have already been labeled as easily manipulated individuals as posted upthread.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have never contacted a Mod to have any posts removed, and only questioned a minor child's name being repeatedly mentioned. I realize that both Kim and Jen are amazing individuals, but I respectfully disagree with you about how they will be treated out here as they have already been labeled as easily manipulated individuals as posted upthread.

I appreciate your caution, but it is time to all align and move forward, as we are. There is no reason to question Kim and Jennifer on the current POI; LE has that. There is no reason to question them on family dynamics; that is best left for a professionally guided exploration. The interchange should focus solely on Data points related to Julia. Anything else has nothing to do with where we are at this juncture of the thread. But that's my opinion. I don't think anyone disagrees?

I do agree that if they participate we should all have an agreement upfront on what are the appropriate topics to discuss. This thread should treat them with support and love. They have been through enough. More than enough. I think more has been revealed along the way, and sometimes things aren't as they appear from the armchair.

 

[dmc43613]

I appreciate your caution, but it is time to all align and move forward, as we are. There is no reason to question Kim and Jennifer on the current POI; LE has that. There is no reason to question them on family dynamics; that is best left for a professionally guided exploration. The interchange should focus solely on Data points related to Julia. Anything else has nothing to do with where we are at this juncture of the thread. But that's my opinion. I don't think anyone disagrees?

I do agree that if they participate we should all have an agreement upfront on what are the appropriate topics to discuss. This thread should treat them with support and love. They have been through enough. More than enough. I think more has been revealed along the way, and sometimes things aren't as they appear from the armchair.

I agree 100% with Roses on every point.

 

[FindHG]

I have never contacted a Mod to have any posts removed, and only questioned a minor child's name being repeatedly mentioned. I realize that both Kim and Jen are amazing individuals, but I respectfully disagree with you about how they will be treated out here as they have already been labeled as easily manipulated individuals as posted upthread.

With all due respect, DnC, I feel this place in a calm way, filled with love and support before them here, I know that is my sense of things, but you and I may have different values and aspirations, which I respect. I agree with you about children mentioned. My aspirations of Jen and for her in her capacity especially to help may be higher or different in expecting her to be able to handle it with her intelligence and commitment. To stifle truth is not a good thing in whomever's heart that struggle is taking place, so may they find the courage and path to do the right thing. Besides as roses points out, data points are fairly non-controversial, all pitching in from all sides for one purpose?

 

[4ist]

I did not know that DNA evidence was found, but it does not surprise me. Mimommy mentioned before that a roommate was asked for fingerprints and DNA recently. That would be pointless if they didn't have finger prints and/or DNA evidence at the crime scene to compare it to.

I think your abundance of caution is prudent 4ist. Good call out.

OK, and thank you for this. I can understand having DNA evidence for Julia and also to compare to whoever was known to be in the apartment, and if none match they will want to find out who it does belong to. I was thinking more along the lines of having known DNA of a possible perpetrator. But now I realize that would not necessarily be the case.

Again, thanks squirrel.

Per TOS, I do believe you may be right. Without a link or tangible proof of this, we cannot be sure it is true. Shall I ask a mod if it is OK?

Silly Billy is a new mod, but not new to WS, and an EXCELLENT sleuther! I have had the pleasure of seeing him in action on other threads. We are very lucky to have him mod'ing us. : )

It seems to me that the information posted by Mimommy would be known to the closest family members to Julia. Being a verified as a close friend of Julia's immediate family, it seems plausible to me that Mimommy could know this information. I thought the whole point of doing the verification is to prevent people from posting "facts" that they cannot possibly know. I think it is fair though to ask her exactly how she obtained this information. I have asked other verified insiders in this thread about how they obtained certain information in cases where it seemed unlikely to me that they obtained this information directly from LE. But most of the time I did not get any answers to my inquiries. But I leave it now to the moderators to sort this out.

I do believe that there is and was some information that Trojan and I, have been told by all of LE that should not be openly discussed in a forum such as this. And the Turnquist family, speaking through MiMommy doesn't make it true or factual. I say back off on the conversation of DNA that was possibly found at the seen. The LE knows exactly what they have and they definitely want a formal statement from JT 😬

 

[4ist]

According to what us Grandparents have been told by Julia's Mom and twin sister, Julia hated drugs. But does that mean she didn't experiment with them? Julia liked to party 🎉

This is wild speculation, and I mean no disrespect to the family members. But I am pressure testing our current theory for holes.[/QUOTE]

Trojan66 Response:

It would be helpful to know when this "blowup" occurred in proximity of Julia's death.

Trojan and Rose, which blow up are you referring to, there were many in the family and friends areana?

Was there still animosity between the roommates? Was tensions so high it made living together miserable? Did Julia consider moving out or kicking the drug using roommate out of the apartment?

Is this the same roommate that may have been the last person to see her alive, when she stopped at the apartment to get some things to stay at BF's house?[/QUOTE]

ToTrojan and Rose, Julia and Roommate K were very good friends when they first became roomates, they partied and played together for quite a while. If you have access to any of Julia's social media sites you will sees many pictures of them together. Not really sure of the time when that closeness stopped. Was not aware that Julia might of considered moving out or kicking out Her roommate K.
Yes, it was Roommate K that came home on 12/09, supposedly to get a change of clothes and whatever she would need to be ready for finals and she left with her boyfriend.

 

[black_squirrel]

I do believe that there is and was some information that Trojan and I, have been told by all of LE that should not be openly discussed in a forum such as this. And the Turnquist family, speaking through MiMommy doesn't make it true or factual. I say back off on the conversation of DNA that was possibly found at the seen. The LE knows exactly what they have and they definitely want want a formal statement from JT ��

I agree that anything that is stated by any verified insider is not necessarily true or factual. Because of the first amendment, I don't think that LE can restrict what we can discuss in this forum. If LE feels that certain things should not be discussed they could contact WS and I am sure that WS would cooperate with LE. A lot of details of the investigation that were claimed to have originated from LE have already been shared in this forum. We don't know what information the Turnquist family can release. But that is something between LE and the Turnquists, and not for us to discuss.

I don't think that the information that Mimommy gave us is a big secret. Even recently, a roommate submitted DNA samples. So LE must have some DNA evidence and some of that evidence does probably does not match JT, because otherwise it would not be necessary to still be asking people for DNA samples. JMO.

 

[Spellbound]

Spellbound, what is TOS & MSN stand for?

TOS= Terms of Service (for using Websleiths)
limks to long and short versions:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65794-Terms-of-Service-Long-Detailed-Version

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65793-Terms-of-Service-Short-Plain-Language-Version


MSN? Not sure -- Can you point me to the post number? If it was supposed to be MSM, that would be Main Stream Media

 

[FindHG]

To Rose from angels, as far as I know Julia wasn't pregnant and was taking birth control pills.

ToTrojan and Rose, Julia and Kourtney were very good friends when they first became roomates, they partied and played together for quit a while. If yo have access to any of Julia's social media sites you will see any pictures of them together. Not really sure of the time when that closeness stopped. Was not aware that Julia might of considered moving out or kicking out Kourtney.
Yes, it was Kourtney that came home on 12/09, supposedly to get a change of clothes and whatever she would need to be ready for finals and she left with her boyfriend.

Respecfully Snipped By Me = RSMB



Thank you again, 4ist, for the information, it helps to know.

 

[4ist]

Continuing my train of thought...

I'm curious of the roommates' disposition after the murder. We're they fearful after Julia's death? Did they move out immediately after? Move home take time off school? Express concern about "it could have been all of us" had we been home? Remorse for not being home?

TOS= Terms of Service (for using Websleiths)
limks to long and short versions:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65794-Terms-of-Service-Long-Detailed-Version

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65793-Terms-of-Service-Short-Plain-Language-Version


MSN? Not sure -- Can you point me to the post number? If it was supposed to be MSM, that would be Main Stream Media

Thanks for sharing Spellbound, I did misspell the MSM, appreciate you straightening me out

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

With all due respect, DnC, I feel this place in a calm way, filled with love and support before them here, I know that is my sense of things, but you and I may have different values and aspirations, which I respect. I agree with you about children mentioned. My aspirations of Jen and for her in her capacity especially to help may be higher or different in expecting her to be able to handle it with her intelligence and commitment. To stifle truth is not a good thing in whomever's heart that struggle is taking place, so may they find the courage and path to do the right thing. Besides as roses points out, data points are fairly non-controversial, all pitching in from all sides for one purpose?

You're right we do have different values and aspirations... I don't agree with public humiliation as a means to get cooperation or a statement which you easily sided with earlier upthread. Filled with love and support? Where? Of course I don't want her on here simply for the psychological torture it could cause by reading any of the posts upthread regarding her being an easily manipulated person who is hiding child abuse and how statements shamed and belittled her for loving and standing with her family regarding the pending charges against her DAD. I understand quite clearly about the data points and how they could help. Do I trust that everyone will stick to just that? Not really unfortunately. Had the family not been verbally beaten down by other family members, I would feel differently. JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Come on Dazed. We are all very sincerely trying to help move this case forward. You make important points, and I think we all are on the same page. Let's move forward. You have made your good point(s).
We need more input from the source.
If I didn't think we could make a difference I wouldn't push on this.
There are other threads we can go work on, but we have invested a lot of research here, and have emotionally invested in helping find justice.
So if folks think we can do some good, then please jump in.
Peace love and roses!

Editing to add that I have been informed that the other family members are onboard with this new approach too.

I recommend we give it a try, but its up to all of you.
I for one will be vigorously protecting any new family member joining from anything less than a supportive and respectful exchange.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Come on Dazed. We are all very sincerely trying to help move this case forward. You make important points, and I think we all are on the same page. Let's move forward. You have made your good point(s).
We need more input from the source.
If I didn't think we could make a difference I wouldn't push on this.
There are other threads we can go work on, but we have invested a lot of research here, and have emotionally invested in helping find justice.
So if folks think we can do some good, then please jump in.
Peace love and roses!

Editing to add that I have been informed that the other family members are onboard with this new approach too.

I recommend we give it a try, but its up to all of you.
I for one will be vigorously protecting any new family member joining from anything less than a supportive and respectful exchange.

Please forgive me for not answering sooner! Work, kids and grandson make for a wonderful day! What other family members? It would be nice to see them announce publicly exactly what their intentions are and then not sway from it!

 

[rosesfromangels]

In the meantime.... Some of the things I am looking for include:

Any flags from any relationships in the nine months leading up to Julia's death?
Did she date a married man?
Was she pregnant?
Did she date anyone who had a jealous ex lurking?
Did she date anyone who seemed overly possessive or jealous?
Aside from the roomie who she had a confrontation with over drug use, are there any notable conflicts, even small...but noteworthy?
What male friends did she keep in contact with from Monroe? Did they visit her in her dorm? Did those guys have girlfriends or wives?
Did Julia owe anyone money?
Had Julia helped anyone who was in trouble of any kind? What trouble?
Did Julia have a set schedule she kept?
Did she make routine trips to Monroe? When? What did she do?

And my list goes on....but that gives you an idea.
Looking for patterns....

 

[FindHG]

You're right we do have different values and aspirations... I don't agree with public humiliation as a means to get cooperation or a statement which you easily sided with earlier upthread. Filled with love and support? Where? Of course I don't want her on here simply for the psychological torture it could cause by reading any of the posts upthread regarding her being an easily manipulated person who is hiding child abuse and how statements shamed and belittled her for loving and standing with her family regarding the pending charges against her DAD. I understand quite clearly about the data points and how they could help. Do I trust that everyone will stick to just that? Not really unfortunately. Had the family not been verbally beaten down by other family members, I would feel differently. JMO

As you wish. I find her intelligent, well expressed, a sharp mind, a loyal friend, sister and daughter, an adult, who can see for herself right and wrong and commit to it. I hope she is not pressured to not participate on WS out of fear of the things you mention. The rest of world she may find is a lot more harsh than here, where assisting families victimized by crimes takes precedence over snark. You certainly have my commitment to treat any family member with the utmost respect, not that it should mean anything to them what I think anyway. I completely recognize that I could never want justice for Julia more than they.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A member posting on the Bruck thread stated there was another murder of a male, that was a friend of Chelsea's. Does anyone know who this person is? I can't pinpoint it on the news posts.

And if you know who it is, did they have any ties to Julia whatsoever?

 

[rosesfromangels]

It was suggested to me that we dig in to the contentious roomate situation a bit more. I think that is a good suggestion, and worthy of our examination.

I know very little about this room mate, other than Julia was very chummy with her at one point, but then had quarrels after this same room mate was allegedly using drugs in the apartment. Do we know what type of drugs? Do we know if this room mates boyfriend used drugs in the apartment as well, and if he directly had arguments with Julia?

 

[OldSteve]

It was suggested to me that we dig in to the contentious roomate situation a bit more. I think that is a good suggestion, and worthy of our examination.

I know very little about this room mate, other than Julia was very chummy with her at one point, but then had quarrels after this same room mate was allegedly using drugs in the apartment. Do we know what type of drugs? Do we know if this room mates boyfriend used drugs in the apartment as well, and if he directly had arguments with Julia?

That's a pretty good angle! - wonder who was supplying the roommate, and what if Julia was planning on turning that person in because of what drug used was doing to the roommate? So could be the supplier... could be both...

ETA - could the supplier thought Julia was turning the roommate against him/her, and getting roommate to go to LE....