MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Hatfield]

One more thing on the keys. If she had roomates and there was more than 1 bedroom then I wonder if each bedroom had a separate key to get inside each bedroom. Maybe there was 1 key for outside entry to the apartment itself and then once inside maybe there is a separate key for each bedroom.

The reason I am thinking this is because I seem to recall one of the roomates who had found her had to get the apartment manager to gain access to her room.

So if there was 2 keys that were different then maybe the 1 main key to the main outside apartment door may have been more common to have duplicates to since roomates would change over time and the bedroom keys may have been more protected. Which means he may have been able to get a copy of the outside key much easier than the bedroom key. Because there may have been lots of clones of those keys with the roomates changing often enough.

And all he would need is to get access to the outside main door since once inside then he could just wait for her to come out of her bedroom and he would already be in the apartment.

I am not sure if this is how it was or not and just thinking it may be the case if all the roomates shared a kitchen area of the apartment.

 

[Trojan1966]

One more thing on the keys. If she had roomates and there was more than 1 bedroom then I wonder if each bedroom had a separate key to get inside each bedroom. Maybe there was 1 key for outside entry to the apartment itself and then once inside maybe there is a separate key for each bedroom.

That's the way it worked... Each bedroom has a different key but all roommates had a key to the front door.

 

[psyquestor]

Now that the *advertiser censored* trial is over, perhaps they will join the forum and answer for themselves.

 

[Trojan1966]

Concerning the SW documents................
A detail in SW #1 was pointed out to me last night. On page 4, Item M - statement by the Medical Examiner said "Here, ligature like abrasions were observed on the right and left ankle and Julia's left wrist."
What about her right wrist??? Not sure if there were any abrasions but just thought I'd see what people think.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Concerning the SW documents................
A detail in SW #1 was pointed out to me last night. On page 4, Item M - statement by the Medical Examiner said "Here, ligature like abrasions were observed on the right and left ankle and Julia's left wrist."
What about her right wrist??? Not sure if there were any abrasions but just thought I'd see what people think.

IMO..It seems the pert. restrained the right and left ankle and left arm with rope, ties or something. Was the pert. not able to restrain the right wrist, or was it not necessary to restrain the right wrist. This is where I have to consider the possibility of more than one person being involved. I'm struggling to examine beyond this point, but here is a start. Perhaps the restraining happened first, so clothing couldn't be taken off, and was then cut off.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

IMO...if the restraining happened first, it would seem this is not a voluntary act that went too far. Who is going to invite someone into their place with rope and scissors? Or, maybe it was a cloth belt wrapped around the pert's clothing that didn't look unusual or threatening in anyway? Maybe the cloth belt, when used by the pert. was only able to restrain two ankles and one arm, due to the limitations of the length, even with pulling the ankles and arms as close as possible to each other. But how do you hide a pair of scissors? Or maybe they were Julia's scissors? Perhaps the pert. had a pocket knife that was concealed, or a very small pair of scissors, like the type used in sewing?

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Why would Julia and JT talk about the youngest daughter going xmas shopping with Julia December 9th? Was Julia planning to help MT make purchases at Walmart? Was Julia wanting some time alone with MT to talk? I'm going to assume Julia received a small discount on anything purchased at Walmart as part of a employee benefit.

 

[FindHG]

Concerning the SW documents................
A detail in SW #1 was pointed out to me last night. On page 4, Item M - statement by the Medical Examiner said "Here, ligature like abrasions were observed on the right and left ankle and Julia's left wrist."
What about her right wrist??? Not sure if there were any abrasions but just thought I'd see what people think.

Also there was:

"only the right sleeve on her right arm."

SW #1 pg 3 para H. line 3


It may have been left there to use for holding her, as her top was cut to expose, so guessing her arm was not left untied to remove her shirt. It may have been cut that way for a reason, not to leave marks, maybe? Her left elbow was observed to have

"two small circular abrasions"

SW #1 pg 3 para I. line 2

The scene seems to have been sanitized prior to the perp/s being done with it.

<modsnip>

 

[Skigirl]

Also there was:

"only the right sleeve on her right arm."

SW #1 pg 3 para H. line 3


It may have been left there to use for holding her, as her top was cut to expose, so guessing her arm was not left untied to remove her shirt. It may have been cut that way for a reason, not to leave marks, maybe? Her left elbow was observed to have

"two small circular abrasions"

SW #1 pg 3 para I. line 2

Snipped by me for focus...

Good catch, FindHG. Maybe her right hand was restrained in some other fashion that made it impossible to slip the sleeve over her hand? She could have been handcuffed to something or her right arm tied to something, like a bedpost, instead of to her other hand.

Trojan1966, I just can't imagine how hard this must be for you. My hat's off to you for caring so much about her that you are willing to read and think about these details. Peace to your family.

 

[Sassyspecs]

Why would Julia and JT talk about the youngest daughter going xmas shopping with Julia December 9th? Was Julia planning to help MT make purchases at Walmart? Was Julia wanting some time alone with MT to talk? I'm going to assume Julia received a small discount on anything purchased at Walmart as part of a employee benefit.

I've always had questions about the sister's lunch/shopping date that Sunday. The girls had just spent time together decorating the tree, why didn't they do their Christmas shopping when Julia was home that weekend? I believe Wal-Mart employees can utilize their discount at any Wal-Mart, so why not just go to the one in Monroe? Instead, Jennifer and M drove all the way out to Ypsilanti on Dec. 9th to see Julia for a very short time during her lunch break. Were they purchasing something specifically sold at that location? Was meeting Julia for a quick lunch common for the girls on days that she worked?

IMO JT could have (either directly or indirectly) set up the lunch date in order to keep close tabs on Julia, ensure his plan would be carried out & even allow the girls to be together as sisters one last time. He talks briefly about all of them having the chance to say goodbye to Julia and the lunch date is discussed in this article:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html

JT has stated that he spoke with Julia that day to discuss Christmas shopping with M. What time did they speak? IMO it very well could have been a rouse in order to get into the apartment and catch Julia with her guard down. Something as simple as, "I got your mom's gift, not too far from your place, can I drop it off there to make sure she doesn't see it before Christmas?" (Or some variation of that) If killing Julia was in the works for some time, chance are he would have been on his best behavior toward her and she wouldn't have thought twice about letting him in.

The last text from Julia's phone was sent out around 10:30 p.m. Is it possible that she wasn't the one to send them? Could it have been the final act of her murderer who then placed the phone under her body in the bathtub and headed home? It would also explain the refusal of providing LE with a formal statement of his whereabouts around the time they believe Julia was killed. Is it possible for LE to pinpoint an approximate time Julia's phone was submerged (switched off)?

Regardless of my opinions, I pray the truth (whatever that may be) comes to light and there is justice for Julia very soon.

 

[FindHG]

I've always had questions about the sister's lunch/shopping date that Sunday. The girls had just spent time together decorating the tree, why didn't they do their Christmas shopping when Julia was home that weekend? I believe Wal-Mart employees can utilize their discount at any Wal-Mart, so why not just go to the one in Monroe? Instead, Jennifer and M drove all the way out to Ypsilanti on Dec. 9th to see Julia for a very short time during her lunch break. Were they purchasing something specifically sold at that location? Was meeting Julia for a quick lunch common for the girls on days that she worked?

IMO JT could have (either directly or indirectly) set up the lunch date in order to keep close tabs on Julia, ensure his plan would be carried out & even allow the girls to be together as sisters one last time. He talks briefly about all of them having the chance to say goodbye to Julia and the lunch date is discussed in this article:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html

JT has stated that he spoke with Julia that day to discuss Christmas shopping with M. What time did they speak? IMO it very well could have been a rouse in order to get into the apartment and catch Julia with her guard down. Something as simple as, "I got your mom's gift, not too far from your place, can I drop it off there to make sure she doesn't see it before Christmas?" (Or some variation of that) If killing Julia was in the works for some time, chance are he would have been on his best behavior toward her and she wouldn't have thought twice about letting him in.

The last text from Julia's phone was sent out around 10:30 p.m. Is it possible that she wasn't the one to send them? Could it have been the final act of her murderer who then placed the phone under her body in the bathtub and headed home? It would also explain the refusal of providing LE with a formal statement of his whereabouts around the time they believe Julia was killed. Is it possible for LE to pinpoint an approximate time Julia's phone was submerged (switched off)?

Regardless of my opinions, I pray the truth (whatever that may be) comes to light and there is justice for Julia very soon.

Thank you, sassyspecs. You make great points and your questions resonate as well. The more I think about it the more it seems possible the text wasn't sent from Julia but for the perp to know when his way would be clear and to know what to set up, for example the alarm, then later the TV, to know when to look through the rest of the apartment, possibly, certainly to throw off time and suspicion.

So, why would it have been necessary to do that unless it was somebody who thought they may be suspected afterwards?

Why would the killer need all that time if they weren't looking for something?

Did they expect by leaving the TV on very loud that the roommate would raise the alarm sooner?

If so, could that explain the lack of contact from the household?

Was the perp expecting the morning alarm clock ringing to raise suspicion, that didn't work, so then went back with the keys to set up the TV?

 

[Skigirl]

You both make great points and it's interesting to hear how different peoples' thoughts and theories are from what I had simply assumed.

Regarding the lunch: When I lived in southeast Michigan, the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area was a big day-trip draw for people from all over, especially at Christmastime. I've seen a number of photos of Julia's family decked out in U of M colors (even with face paint, if I recall), obviously either heading to or gathered to watch a game on TV (despite that Julia attended a rival school). I just assumed that they had an affinity for U of M (as many in Michigan do; basically most people are either Wolverines or Spartans whether they attended one of those schools or not). There aren't a lot of towns around Monroe, so I just assumed that the sisters took a day trip to the Ann Arbor/Ypsi area for shopping and general hanging out and stopped by to see Julia since they were going to be in the area anyway, not that they drove all that way to shop in the Saline Walmart and see their sister. Things are pretty spread out in Michigan and an hour of driving isn't really considered a big deal or a long way to most people, at least that was my impression when I lived there. But of course I don't know either way.

Regarding the TV: I am surprised at that detail and somehow missed it in the affidavit. I assumed that Julia was in studying and set the alarm and may even have already gone to bed when the perp entered the apartment (or alternatively, that she had set the alarm and had begun to draw a bath when the perp entered) and that the alarm went off in the morning and that the perp was still (or back) in the apartment and silenced it. Alternatively, I assumed that the perp actually didn't enter the apartment until after the roommate left in the morning and that the murder took place in the morning. I'm kind of surprised that she had an alarm clock because I thought most college students just use their phone for alarms.

Did Julia take baths often? It wouldn't be usual behavior for me to take a bath in the morning (and I'd only marginally more likely to take one in the evening... but if I did take one, it would likely be in the evening when I was not in a rush), but this is all reminding me that people have very different habits.

 

[Spellbound]

Julia's apartment was very close to Depot Town, which has neat and unique shops and some good places to eat, too.

 

[Sassyspecs]

You both make great points and it's interesting to hear how different peoples' thoughts and theories are from what I had simply assumed.

Regarding the lunch: When I lived in southeast Michigan, the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area was a big day-trip draw for people from all over, especially at Christmastime. I've seen a number of photos of Julia's family decked out in U of M colors (even with face paint, if I recall), obviously either heading to or gathered to watch a game on TV (despite that Julia attended a rival school). I just assumed that they had an affinity for U of M (as many in Michigan do; basically most people are either Wolverines or Spartans whether they attended one of those schools or not). There aren't a lot of towns around Monroe, so I just assumed that the sisters took a day trip to the Ann Arbor/Ypsi area for shopping and general hanging out and stopped by to see Julia since they were going to be in the area anyway, not that they drove all that way to shop in the Saline Walmart and see their sister. Things are pretty spread out in Michigan and an hour of driving isn't really considered a big deal or a long way to most people, at least that was my impression when I lived there. But of course I don't know either way.

Regarding the TV: I am surprised at that detail and somehow missed it in the affidavit. I assumed that Julia was in studying and set the alarm and may even have already gone to bed when the perp entered the apartment (or alternatively, that she had set the alarm and had begun to draw a bath when the perp entered) and that the alarm went off in the morning and that the perp was still (or back) in the apartment and silenced it. Alternatively, I assumed that the perp actually didn't enter the apartment until after the roommate left in the morning and that the murder took place in the morning. I'm kind of surprised that she had an alarm clock because I thought most college students just use their phone for alarms.

Did Julia take baths often? It wouldn't be usual behavior for me to take a bath in the morning (and I'd only marginally more likely to take one in the evening... but if I did take one, it would likely be in the evening when I was not in a rush), but this is all reminding me that people have very different habits.

I hadn't thought of the possibility that Jennifer and M could have planned to be in the area already and decided to meet Julia for lunch. Definitely a possibility but the way it has been described my impression is they went there just to have lunch with her and do a little shopping on her lunch break.

As for the alarm, I've read that it went off two days in a row (unsure of where I read this) which made me think it had some sort of function to disable itself after a certain amount of time. Mine shuts off automatically once it's gone off for a minute or two. I assumed that Julia chose the recurring function on the alarm, set the time and when she didn't shut it off the first day, it disabled and reset itself for the same time the next day. Again, it disabled itself after it wasn't shut off and then she was found that night.

As for the TV being loud, I've heard this as well and thought it was most likely to mask the sounds of the terrible things that were happening in her room. It's possible her killer just didn't think or didn't care to turn it back down. Maybe it was left loud to mask any potential noises that would draw immediate concern to her although I'm not sure what that could include.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Where did the reference about the TV come from? I don't recall ever seeing a news article or Trojan making a statement regarding it.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Regarding the TV playing in Julia's room, a lot of people will fall asleep watching TV and may keep it on all night or wake up and turn it off part way through the night. If it was loud the pert. may have just turned it up. Julia's last text said she was watching 'Mean Girls', did she have a DVD hooked up to her TV, or subscribe to NETflix, or was it playing on basic cable that the apartment offers? I do wonder if this was looked into by LE. This could prove or disprove the text as to who sent it. (If Julia didn't have NETflix or a DVD copy of 'Mean Girls' and it wasn't playing on Sunday night on regular or cable TV, or whatever Julia had access to, then the pert. may have sent a bogus text. That being said, the pert. could have sent the text using Julia's phone and 'Mean Girls' was playing. Or, 'Mean Girls' was playing and Julia was watching and sent the text. My point is, it was never publicly examined if Julia had access to 'Mean Girls' Sunday.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Where was it referenced that the TV was ever noted as being on by any witnesses, and the mention of the alarm being turned off and the TV turned on and up? Where has this ever been documented???

 

[Sassyspecs]

Where was it referenced that the TV was ever noted as being on by any witnesses, and the mention of the alarm being turned off and the TV turned on and up? Where has this ever been documented???

Trojan posted on 5/14 that the rommate heard Julia's tv as it seemed louder than normal. Nothing has been said about her alarm actually being physically shut off. My previous post states what I believe happened with her alarm.

 

[FindHG]

You both make great points and it's interesting to hear how different peoples' thoughts and theories are from what I had simply assumed.

Regarding the lunch: When I lived in southeast Michigan, the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area was a big day-trip draw for people from all over, especially at Christmastime. I've seen a number of photos of Julia's family decked out in U of M colors (even with face paint, if I recall), obviously either heading to or gathered to watch a game on TV (despite that Julia attended a rival school). I just assumed that they had an affinity for U of M (as many in Michigan do; basically most people are either Wolverines or Spartans whether they attended one of those schools or not). There aren't a lot of towns around Monroe, so I just assumed that the sisters took a day trip to the Ann Arbor/Ypsi area for shopping and general hanging out and stopped by to see Julia since they were going to be in the area anyway, not that they drove all that way to shop in the Saline Walmart and see their sister. Things are pretty spread out in Michigan and an hour of driving isn't really considered a big deal or a long way to most people, at least that was my impression when I lived there. But of course I don't know either way.

Regarding the TV: I am surprised at that detail and somehow missed it in the affidavit. I assumed that Julia was in studying and set the alarm and may even have already gone to bed when the perp entered the apartment (or alternatively, that she had set the alarm and had begun to draw a bath when the perp entered) and that the alarm went off in the morning and that the perp was still (or back) in the apartment and silenced it. Alternatively, I assumed that the perp actually didn't enter the apartment until after the roommate left in the morning and that the murder took place in the morning. I'm kind of surprised that she had an alarm clock because I thought most college students just use their phone for alarms.

Did Julia take baths often? It wouldn't be usual behavior for me to take a bath in the morning (and I'd only marginally more likely to take one in the evening... but if I did take one, it would likely be in the evening when I was not in a rush), but this is all reminding me that people have very different habits.

RBBM

Exactly, Skigirl! sass, thank you and mods and WSers here for Julia, for moving forward and Trojan for your patience and strength.

The alarm may have been set up to draw the roommate's attention, so I doubt the perp or his accomplice, which seems more and more likely to me, would be there at the time. Failing that, it's possible with the keys they re-entered at some point and put the TV on louder than usual for Julia. The first setup didn't work a second fell into place at about the right time, it seems.

The text at 10:30 pm to both scout the roommate's schedule and to provide cover, happens to be the very time Jenn has an alibi for stepdad, further sign of setups and accomplices to me. Just too pat.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I've always had questions about the sister's lunch/shopping date that Sunday. The girls had just spent time together decorating the tree, why didn't they do their Christmas shopping when Julia was home that weekend? I believe Wal-Mart employees can utilize their discount at any Wal-Mart, so why not just go to the one in Monroe? Instead, Jennifer and M drove all the way out to Ypsilanti on Dec. 9th to see Julia for a very short time during her lunch break. Were they purchasing something specifically sold at that location? Was meeting Julia for a quick lunch common for the girls on days that she worked?

IMO JT could have (either directly or indirectly) set up the lunch date in order to keep close tabs on Julia, ensure his plan would be carried out & even allow the girls to be together as sisters one last time. He talks briefly about all of them having the chance to say goodbye to Julia and the lunch date is discussed in this article:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2013/11/julia_niswender_family.html

JT has stated that he spoke with Julia that day to discuss Christmas shopping with M. What time did they speak? IMO it very well could have been a rouse in order to get into the apartment and catch Julia with her guard down. Something as simple as, "I got your mom's gift, not too far from your place, can I drop it off there to make sure she doesn't see it before Christmas?" (Or some variation of that) If killing Julia was in the works for some time, chance are he would have been on his best behavior toward her and she wouldn't have thought twice about letting him in.

The last text from Julia's phone was sent out around 10:30 p.m. Is it possible that she wasn't the one to send them? Could it have been the final act of her murderer who then placed the phone under her body in the bathtub and headed home? It would also explain the refusal of providing LE with a formal statement of his whereabouts around the time they believe Julia was killed. Is it possible for LE to pinpoint an approximate time Julia's phone was submerged (switched off)?

Regardless of my opinions, I pray the truth (whatever that may be) comes to light and there is justice for Julia very soon.

Lots of good points here. Thanks for the article attachment. It's interesting to re-read this article now and focusing on what KT, JT and JN are quoted as saying, and compare it to today's knowledge with the release of the 12 page affidavit and JT being named a POI in the case.

KT says in the article she text Julia to share some findings of her medical report Tuesday afternoon/evening and the message went to voicemail. KT states in the article it was after this, she received a call from a friend of Julia's stating Julia didn't show up for the Walmart xmas party, which she promised rides to other employees Monday night. Why would the friend wait until Tuesday night to call KT out of concern of Julia missing the Walmart party Monday night? Was the friend trying to contact Julia first for a day before contacting KT? Is the Walmart friend from Monroe and that's how she knew KT's phone number? Did the Walmart friend know JT (twin)?