MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[DazednConfuzed09]

Trojan posted on 5/14 that the rommate heard Julia's tv as it seemed louder than normal. Nothing has been said about her alarm actually being physically shut off. My previous post states what I believe happened with her alarm.

Thank you! I will go find the quote. It seems odd that the TV was never mentioned in the SW as it describes what caught the roommates attention was the alarm going off on Monday, but doesn't mention an alarm or TV being on the following day when AG finally contacts Security Guard at the complex. Interesting....

 

[Deleted member 132804]

RBBM

Exactly, Skigirl!

The alarm may have been set up to draw the roommate's attention, so I doubt the perp or his accomplice, which seems more and more likely to me, would be there at the time. Failing that, it's possible with the keys they re-entered at some point and put the TV on real loud. The first setup didn't work.

The text at 10:30 pm to both scout the roommate's schedule and to provide cover, happens to be the very time Jenn has an alibi for stepdad, further sign of setups and accomplices to me. Just too pat.

Thanks for mentioning the text to the roommate at 10:30 pm. I think the 'Mean Girl' text was at 8:30 pm and another text to a friend 'Happy Birthday' at some point.

It's interesting that a text was sent to the roommate at 10:30 pm to scout the roommate's schedule. I do wonder what the roommate replied back.

 

[black_squirrel]

Where was it referenced that the TV was ever noted as being on by any witnesses, and the mention of the alarm being turned off and the TV turned on and up? Where has this ever been documented???

IIRC, Trojan mentioned that Julia's roommate KM came in on Sunday around 10:30pm to pick something up from her room before staying at her boyfriends' place. At that time she heard the TV being loud.
On Monday morning, the other roommate AG came in briefly on her way to class. She heard the alarm going off. I don't recall reading whether the alarm kept going off until Julia was found, or whether it turned itself off after some time.

 

[FindHG]

Regarding the TV playing in Julia's room, a lot of people will fall asleep watching TV and may keep it on all night or wake up and turn it off part way through the night. If it was loud the pert. may have just turned it up. Julia's last text said she was watching 'Mean Girls', did she have a DVD hooked up to her TV, or subscribe to NETflix, or was it playing on basic cable that the apartment offers? I do wonder if this was looked into by LE. This could prove or disprove the text as to who sent it. (If Julia didn't have NETflix or a DVD copy of 'Mean Girls' and it wasn't playing on Sunday night on regular or cable TV, or whatever Julia had access to, then the pert. may have sent a bogus text. That being said, the pert. could have sent the text using Julia's phone and 'Mean Girls' was playing. Or, 'Mean Girls' was playing and Julia was watching and sent the text. My point is, it was never publicly examined if Julia had access to 'Mean Girls' Sunday.

Thanks for mentioning the text to the roommate at 10:30 pm. I think the 'Mean Girl' text was at 8:30 pm and another text to a friend 'Happy Birthday' at some point.

It's interesting that a text was sent to the roommate at 10:30 pm to scout the roommate's schedule. I do wonder what the roommate replied back.

Well put, Looking Glass, thank you.

Packed schedule, so busy their 'party girl' Julia considering all we know through the household. She was going shopping with dad, working at 6 am, watching mean girls, studying too for finals, working at Walmart going to b'days the next day, texting friends and killed at the exact time stepdad was home on Sunday.

eeek, that sounds like overkill on covering bases that may have cost them credibility as LE waded through the facts we may not know yet.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Trojan posted on 5/14 that the roommate heard Julia's tv as it seemed louder than normal. Nothing has been said about her alarm actually being physically shut off. My previous post states what I believe happened with her alarm.

In would wonder if the roommate heard the alarm in the AM Monday when in and out on the way to school. And then later, heard the TV playing loud sometime after she returned Monday or Tuesday. Just trying to figure out if the pert. could have been there Sunday night, left and then returned Monday AM, after the roommate left, and turned on the TV loud and reset the alarm to go off Tuesday AM.

 

[black_squirrel]

Thanks for menting the text to the roommate at 10:30 pm. I think the 'Mean Girl' text was at 8:30 pm and another text to a friend 'Happy Birthday' at some point.

It's interesting that a text was sent to the roommate at 10:30 pm to scout the roommate's schedule. I do wonder what the roommate replied back.

IIRC, there was a text to a friend JMcL wishing happy birthday at 8:30pm. A text to Jennifer that she was watching her favorite movie "mean girls" around 10-10:30pm,
and a text to roommate AG around 10:30pm (I don't know the content of that.)

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

IIRC, Trojan mentioned that Julia's roommate KM came in on Sunday around 10:30pm to pick something up from her room before staying at her boyfriends' place. At that time she heard the TV being loud.
On Monday morning, the other roommate AG came in briefly on her way to class. She heard the alarm going off. I don't recall reading whether the alarm kept going off until Julia was found, or whether it turned itself off after some time.

Ok, if that is true then why doesn't the SW mention KM as ever being questioned especially if she was in the apt Sunday night???? It's odd for this bit of information to be missing from the timeline on the SW. The SW only places AG coming back into the apt on Monday morning.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Well put, Looking Glass, thank you.

Packed schedule, so busy their 'party girl' Julia considering all we know through the household. She was going shopping with dad, working at 6 am, watching mean girls, studying too for finals, working at Walmart going to b'days the next day, texting friends and killed at the exact time stepdad was home on Sunday.

eeek, that sounds like overkill on covering bases that may have cost them credibility as LE waded through the facts we may not know yet.

Do we have an actual time of death??

 

[black_squirrel]

Ok, if that is true then why doesn't the SW mention KM as ever being questioned especially if she was in the apt Sunday night???? It's odd for this bit of information to be missing from the timeline on the SW. The SW only places AG coming back into the apt on Monday morning.

Yes that is a good question to which I don't know the answer. I think to some extend, the SW may have cherry-picked facts to support the search warrant. If it is indeed true that the TV was on on 10:30,
and that she didn't turn off her alarm on Monday morning, then JT has a strong alibi. He could only have done it if both Jennifer and Kim are lying.

 

[Sassyspecs]

In would wonder if the roommate heard the alarm in the AM Monday when in and out on the way to school. And then later, heard the TV playing loud sometime after she returned Monday or Tuesday. Just trying to figure out if the pert. could have been there Sunday night, left and then returned Monday AM, after the roommate left, and turned on the TV loud and reset the alarm to go off Tuesday AM.

I believe Trojan's comment was in regards to hearing the TV Sundate night when the roommate briefly stopped by the apartment. I'm not 100% sure if the alarm actually went off both days or if it was just the one day (I don't believe it went off without stopping for the entire time though). I also think it's unlikely Julia's killer or killer's went back to the apartment the next day, it would have been very a very risky move in order to just reset her alarm or change the volume on the TV. Since the TV being loud wasn't actually brought up in any reports of when Julia was found, it makes me think her killer could have simply turned it down or even off before they left and was loud that evening just to cover up what was happening to her.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Well put, Looking Glass, thank you.

Packed schedule, so busy their 'party girl' Julia considering all we know through the household. She was going shopping with dad, working at 6 am, watching mean girls, studying too for finals, working at Walmart going to b'days the next day, texting friends and killed at the exact time stepdad was home on Sunday.

eeek, that sounds like overkill on covering bases that may have cost them credibility as LE waded through the facts we may not know yet.

Agreed, seems so weird, it's like the family knew Julia's every move up to the murder and then 'oh, she must have her phone off for two days.' Wild speculation, when siblings are so close and something happens to one of them, the other may have a gut feeling something is wrong. Did JN (twin) ever express this? I know she said she called or texted Julia Monday and Tuesday, without answer. Was JN (twin) concerned on Monday but talked out of checking on Julia? What about Julia not showing up for the cleaning job Monday AM?

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I believe Trojan's comment was in regards to hearing the TV Sundate night when the roommate briefly stopped by the apartment. I'm not 100% sure if the alarm actually went off both days or if it was just the one day (I don't believe it went off without stopping for the entire time though). I also think it's unlikely Julia's killer or killer's went back to the apartment the next day, it would have been very a very risky move in order to just reset her alarm or change the volume on the TV. Since the TV being loud wasn't actually brought up in any reports of when Julia was found, it makes me think her killer could have simply turned it down or even off before they left and was loud that evening just to cover up what was happening to her.

The SW mentions the roommate texting with Julia at 10:30, and nothing about stopping by the apartment until the following morning.

 

[Trojan1966]

Ok, if that is true then why doesn't the SW mention KM as ever being questioned especially if she was in the apt Sunday night???? It's odd for this bit of information to be missing from the timeline on the SW. The SW only places AG coming back into the apt on Monday morning.

Again, the SW affidavit is not the complete document. What is available is all that the Washtenaw prosecutor said could be released without compromising the murder investigation. The investigation document is substantially more than 12 pages.
I will not repeat this again!

 

[Trojan1966]

You both make great points and it's interesting to hear how different peoples' thoughts and theories are from what I had simply assumed.

Regarding the lunch: When I lived in southeast Michigan, the Ann Arbor/Ypsilanti area was a big day-trip draw for people from all over, especially at Christmastime. I've seen a number of photos of Julia's family decked out in U of M colors (even with face paint, if I recall), obviously either heading to or gathered to watch a game on TV (despite that Julia attended a rival school). I just assumed that they had an affinity for U of M (as many in Michigan do; basically most people are either Wolverines or Spartans whether they attended one of those schools or not). There aren't a lot of towns around Monroe, so I just assumed that the sisters took a day trip to the Ann Arbor/Ypsi area for shopping and general hanging out and stopped by to see Julia since they were going to be in the area anyway, not that they drove all that way to shop in the Saline Walmart and see their sister. Things are pretty spread out in Michigan and an hour of driving isn't really considered a big deal or a long way to most people, at least that was my impression when I lived there. But of course I don't know either way.

Regarding the TV: I am surprised at that detail and somehow missed it in the affidavit. I assumed that Julia was in studying and set the alarm and may even have already gone to bed when the perp entered the apartment (or alternatively, that she had set the alarm and had begun to draw a bath when the perp entered) and that the alarm went off in the morning and that the perp was still (or back) in the apartment and silenced it. Alternatively, I assumed that the perp actually didn't enter the apartment until after the roommate left in the morning and that the murder took place in the morning. I'm kind of surprised that she had an alarm clock because I thought most college students just use their phone for alarms.

Did Julia take baths often? It wouldn't be usual behavior for me to take a bath in the morning (and I'd only marginally more likely to take one in the evening... but if I did take one, it would likely be in the evening when I was not in a rush), but this is all reminding me that people have very different habits.

I believe Julia's sisters went to meet Julia at the Walmart she worked at to pick out some Christmas items to be placed in layaway. They then had lunch and the two sisters returned back to Monroe.
Yes, almost the entire family are Wolverine fans. The pics you may be talking about is an extended family gathering for the Game (U of M vs Ohio State). It is a great time for everyone and is a nice get together.
The TV being loud..... I believe the roommate said it seemed to be louder than normal when she returned for a quick in & out to get items to spend the night at her boyfriends place. I don't believe anyone has said it was loud or even "on" during Monday morning. The perp may have been there and used the TV sound to cover any possible noises from her apartment.
The alarm clock- possibly it is one of those that will only "alarm" for an hour then stops alarming. I don't really know much about her alarm clock.
Julia did not take baths often. Her normal routine was to shower from what her roommates have told me.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I believe Trojan's comment was in regards to hearing the TV Sundate night when the roommate briefly stopped by the apartment. I'm not 100% sure if the alarm actually went off both days or if it was just the one day (I don't believe it went off without stopping for the entire time though). I also think it's unlikely Julia's killer or killer's went back to the apartment the next day, it would have been very a very risky move in order to just reset her alarm or change the volume on the TV. Since the TV being loud wasn't actually brought up in any reports of when Julia was found, it makes me think her killer could have simply turned it down or even off before they left and was loud that evening just to cover up what was happening to her.

I do wonder what time the roommate stopped by Sunday night and heard the TV louder than usual. Was it before texts at 8:00 pm, 8:30 pm and 10:30 pm? Why would Julia be listening to the TV so loud? And studying for final with a loud TV. Wouldn't it be hard to concentrate? Also, did Julia always keep her bedroom door closed, even with the other roommates out? If she wasn't asleep yet and alone in the apartment it would seem she may have the door open and saw the roommate and inquired about her schedule face to face if needed. Also, did the roommates have assigned parking in the parking lot. Did the roommate notice a strange car/truck in a space?

 

[georgiasblu]

Do we have an actual time of death??

I remember ToD as between 11:30 and 6:30.

 

[black_squirrel]

Again, the SW affidavit is not the complete document. What is available is all that the Washtenaw prosecutor said could be released without compromising the murder investigation. The investigation document is substantially more than 12 pages.
I will not repeat this again!

But if I understand correctly, the 12 pages is what was presented to the Judge to sign the search warrant for taking the computer.
If that is the case, then important facts about the case that would indicate that JT might be innocent should not be omitted. Otherwise
the document would be misleading to the judge.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

Again, the SW affidavit is not the complete document. What is available is all that the Washtenaw prosecutor said could be released without compromising the murder investigation. The investigation document is substantially more than 12 pages.
I will not repeat this again!

That's right it's an incomplete and INACCURATE document (per your statements) isn't it?!

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I remember ToD as between 11:30 and 6:30.

Thank you. I was asking because of the talk of rigor mortis setting in prior to the restraints being removed as was talked about upthread. This would take some time as its not an instant process.

 

[FindHG]

I believe Julia's sisters went to meet Julia at the Walmart she worked at to pick out some Christmas items to be placed in layaway. They then had lunch and the two sisters returned back to Monroe.
Yes, almost the entire family are Wolverine fans. The pics you may be talking about is an extended family gathering for the Game (U of M vs Ohio State). It is a great time for everyone and is a nice get together.
The TV being loud..... I believe the roommate said it seemed to be louder than normal when she returned for a quick in & out to get items to spend the night at her boyfriends place. I don't believe anyone has said it was loud or even "on" during Monday morning. The perp may have been there and used the TV sound to cover any possible noises from her apartment.
The alarm clock- possibly it is one of those that will only "alarm" for an hour then stops alarming. I don't really know much about her alarm clock.
Julia did not take baths often. Her normal routine was to shower from what her roommates have told me.

RBBM

Trojan, thank you for all that you have taken time and again to share to help us understand. It's too sad most of the time that we can't change the past. Now, as justice keeps grinding along forward for Julia, no amount of aspersions cast at you, LE or others will change it either, fortunately. Hats off to you for your patience and wisdom, again.