GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

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AnaTeresa said:
I don't think it's an uphill battle. All they have to prove is that the homeowner did not act in a reasonable manner. If a reasonable person would have shot, then the homeowner is able to prevail. However, I think the prosecutor doesn't have that hard of a time of it, after all this was a young woman who was injured in the middle of the night. There's a strong bid for sympathy there that will play well with a jury. And they must have other information to bolster their case, to bring these charges. I'm sure it will be very interesting to hear what they've been holding back.
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She wasn't injured, she was crazy drunk. The accident happened three hours before, and she left the scene.

I don't think she is going to have that much sympathy at all.
 
Tugela said:
Your property is your castle according to the law. The property line doesn't start at your front door.
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Whether the castle doctrine applies only to the dwelling and attached structures, or to the "curtilage" has varied historically. This 1992 Mich case refused to extend it to the driveway, for example.

http://www.sagepub.com/lippmanccl2e/study/features/StatevRiddle.pdf

Haven't researched it enough to know the definitive answer, if there is one. But if Riddle is still good law and the SYG statute authorizes deadly force with reference specifically to a dwelling, business or vehicle (which it does) I think the curtilage probably doesn't count if it's the driveaway. Now, is the front porch (rather than the driveway) curtilage? :)

Believe it or not, this issue is frequently addressed in the context of unlawful search and seizure/privacy. In most cases, law enforcement must have a warrant to search a porch because it's part of the curtilage. Also, incredibly, there's a 10/13 article about whether a porch is curtilage in that sense in Michigan. Go figure.


~snipped and bbm

But if you are outside your technical “home” and on the front porch, are you in “public?”

In short, the answer is no. You don’t leave your legal rights to privacy when you enter the porch. Students have the right, just like any other U.S. citizen, to refuse a police officer from searching their front porch without a warrant.

***

The Court ruled that, by going onto the porch, police officers conducted a preliminary search without a warrant, which is illegal. Now, a police search of a porch without a warrant is considered federally unlawful.

Historically speaking, this interpretation is nothing new. The idea of the exterior of a home being part of the private residence is centuries old and is upheld by old English common law. The definition of outdoor space surrounding a home is also known as the “curtilage” of a residence. In 1891, Black’s Law Dictionary argued that “the enclosed space of ground and buildings immediately surrounding a dwelling-house … includes all that space of grounds and buildings thereon” is the curtilage of the home.

This definition has been important for purposes of refining the Fourth Amendment. Present-day U.S. courts have often interpreted the word “home” to be concurrent with the Middle English definition of “curtilage,” meaning that U.S. citizens are protected from unlawful searches and seizures on their property including the immediate area surrounding their home.

There’s something slightly comforting about knowing that your yard, porch, barbecuing area and outdoor space — which can be seen by the general public on the street — is legally “yours.” In college, we often enjoy this space as if it were within the private walls of our enclosed homes. Protection under curtilage and the Fourth Amendment allows us to enjoy and share the outdoors with family and friends.


http://www.michigandaily.com/print/74313

In googling around, it seems like some of the blogs are focusing on this issue, as well. I would love to be involved in this case directly ::::law geek:::: :blushing:
 
it has been happening for some time now, on twitter, CNN, the post, i would imagine plenty of other places.
 
liljim said:
it has been happening for some time now, on twitter, CNN, the post, i would imagine plenty of other places.
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Good. I'd love to see a link to CNN, in particular, drawing parallels. If you have one handy. Belated Happy Thanksgiving :)
 
nothing new reported in the news, just other jurisdictions picking up the story and running similar articles laying out the charges and what little facts are known.

No matter what, this beautiful young woman is dead and her family and friends are hurting.
 
AzPistonsGirl said:
nothing new reported in the news, just other jurisdictions picking up the story and running similar articles laying out the charges and what little facts are known.

No matter what, this beautiful young woman is dead and her family and friends are hurting.
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I am sure they are, just as Wafer and his family and friends are hurting. Tragic situation.
 
the police report was released a few days ago, it is very heavily redacted tho in all the areas we would like to know more about. not much new was in it, will go look for a link.
 
Even though the report is redacted, I still find some things interesting.

Homeowner called 911 to report he shot someone and hung up. Why would you hang up on 911? Often, the dispatcher wants you to remain on the line while police are en route. Hanging up on the dispatcher looks a bit hinky to me.

The shot was fired through a screen door. Screen doors can be seen through - he didn't shoot through the door at an unknown person allegedly trying to enter. He could see her. Again, hinky to me.

Northernmost door was locked and showed no signs of tampering. So if Renisha was trying to get in, she wasn't working very hard at it. The front door was open, but again, no signs of tampering. I'm going to assume the homeowner opened it to shoot her. The screen was locked, but it had a tear in it. Hard to say whether that occurred because of Renisha or if it was a preexisting condition.

Although I'd love to see what the witnesses have to say, I think there is some good stuff in here. Plenty to think about, at least. At the initial assessment by police at the scene, it didn't appear at all like Renisha was attempting to break in to the home.
 
AnaTeresa said:
Even though the report is redacted, I still find some things interesting.

Homeowner called 911 to report he shot someone and hung up. Why would you hang up on 911? Often, the dispatcher wants you to remain on the line while police are en route. Hanging up on the dispatcher looks a bit hinky to me.

The shot was fired through a screen door. Screen doors can be seen through - he didn't shoot through the door at an unknown person allegedly trying to enter. He could see her. Again, hinky to me.

Northernmost door was locked and showed no signs of tampering. So if Renisha was trying to get in, she wasn't working very hard at it. The front door was open, but again, no signs of tampering. I'm going to assume the homeowner opened it to shoot her. The screen was locked, but it had a tear in it. Hard to say whether that occurred because of Renisha or if it was a preexisting condition.

Although I'd love to see what the witnesses have to say, I think there is some good stuff in here. Plenty to think about, at least. At the initial assessment by police at the scene, it didn't appear at all like Renisha was attempting to break in to the home.
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Respectfully, I don't agree with the two assumptions I bolded. We don't know whether he could see her. It was dark, there was a screen door between him and Renisha. At the most there would have been a blurry shape in his vision. We also don't know who opened the front door. It might have been Renisha. I don't think assuming anything is fair to either parties involved.
 
Elainera said:
Respectfully, I don't agree with the two assumptions I bolded. We don't know whether he could see her. It was dark, there was a screen door between him and Renisha. At the most there would have been a blurry shape in his vision. We also don't know who opened the front door. It might have been Renisha. I don't think assuming anything is fair to either parties involved.
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The screen door was locked, therefore Renisha couldn't have opened it, as the door they are speaking of is the interior front door. Screen doors are on the outside.
 
He may not have hung up. It could have been a dropped call. We don't have that information, so it may be prudent to wait until we do before deciding if it was suspicious. He DID call 911 though, and to me, that's a plus.
 
AnaTeresa said:
Even though the report is redacted, I still find some things interesting.

Homeowner called 911 to report he shot someone and hung up. Why would you hang up on 911? Often, the dispatcher wants you to remain on the line while police are en route. Hanging up on the dispatcher looks a bit hinky to me.

The shot was fired through a screen door. Screen doors can be seen through - he didn't shoot through the door at an unknown person allegedly trying to enter. He could see her. Again, hinky to me.

Northernmost door was locked and showed no signs of tampering. So if Renisha was trying to get in, she wasn't working very hard at it. The front door was open, but again, no signs of tampering. I'm going to assume the homeowner opened it to shoot her. The screen was locked, but it had a tear in it. Hard to say whether that occurred because of Renisha or if it was a preexisting condition.

Although I'd love to see what the witnesses have to say, I think there is some good stuff in here. Plenty to think about, at least. At the initial assessment by police at the scene, it didn't appear at all like Renisha was attempting to break in to the home.
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*not arguing, just pointing out* all this was known prior to this report being released.

i think the fact that he hangs up on 911, and his tone during the call, is open to two wildly different interpretations. if i try to be as impartial as possible i can reasonably see it in a way that is sympathetic to him and i can also see it being very damning.

he did open the interior door and he did shoot thru the closed locked screen door. whether he intended to shoot before he opened the interior door, or whether something he saw after he opened the door caused him to shoot, we do not know. i dont imagine we will have any more info on this until the trial (ie hearing/reading his statements to LE).

and i agree that LE and Kym Worthy decided there was no evidence she was attempting to gain entry to the house, that does not mean he could not have still reasonably thought that she was. but i would think then that his statements would have to give very clear reason for this.
 
oh, there is a report that the restraining order he had against an old girlfriend from years prior was just reinstated in the months prior to this incident. and the mention of someone shooting paintballs at his car while it was at his house. potential reasons his defense could explain his particular level of alarm when he hears noises in the night.

i wish i understood the intricacies of the self defense laws in MI better, lets say this is roughly what is argued in court;

***disclaimer im not arguing this in his defense, or saying i believe this is what happened, im just speculating about what we might hear at trial***

mention of the things i just mentioned above.
that he hears significant noise at both doors of his house, to him it sounds like someone trying to get in. he hears yelling, he thinks it is more than one person.
he cant fully explain why he didnt just call 911, he just was scared and reacted and went to investigate and defend his home/life.
when he gets downstairs he still hears loud banging and yelling at the front door.
he opens the door thinking he can scare the person/people off...

BUT he is immediately startled by the person at the door yelling at him, trying the screen door handle, moving quickly towards the door, and the gun just goes off. the gun is shot 2-5 seconds after he opens the door.

OR the gun goes off literally right when he opens the door, he does not claim to see/hear anything specific after the door is opened. he opens the door and in his movements to reestablish two hands on the weapon it just goes off.

(please add any other reasonable scenarios for discussion, obviously one is that he opens the door, does not feel particularly threatened but sees something specific about her or is just angry and decides to shoot, but that is pretty clear doesnt really need any discussion imo)

so in my first scenario its somewhat clear i think, the jury will have to hear both sides and decide they believe what he is claiming, and then if under the law he was reasonable in his belief of what was happening.

the second scenario is less clear to me, if he is sticking with his claim of accidental discharge, and does not claim anything threatening happened after opening the door, but argues that his state of being in fear for his life continues from the time he arms himself and goes to investigate. is that legally sound?

common sense makes me feel that it should not be an acceptable argument, but i think this is where this case gets really tricky and legally he may still be covered.
 
LIVE: Suspect in Dearborn Heights porch shooting in court

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...urt/-/1719418/23543344/-/9pj6a2z/-/index.html


LIVE: Court hearing Dearborn Heights porch murder

Man accused in shooting faces preliminary exam

Author: Matt Morawski, Local 4 News Today Executive Producer

Published On: Dec 18 2013 03:11:18 AM EST Updated On: Dec 18 2013 09:34:23 AM EST

DEARBORN HEIGHTS, Mich. -
The man accused of shooting a 19-year-old Detroit woman on his own front porch is in court for a preliminary exam.

Theodore Wafer is charged in the murder of Renisha McBride. McBride was shot in the face early last month seeking help after her car broke down in Dearborn Heights...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...case/-/1719418/23540982/-/vo6j28/-/index.html
 
December 18, 2013 at 9:22 am

Live tweets: Follow hearing for slaying of Detroit teen Renisha McBride

Oralandar Brand-Williams /The Detroit News

Dearborn Heights— The homeowner accused of killing a 19-year-old Detroit woman on his front porch in the early morning of Nov. 2 faces a preliminary exam today to learn whether he will stand trial on the charges.

Attorneys for Theodore Wafer, the homeowner charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and firearms violations in connection with Renisha McBride’s death, maintains he acted in self-defense after hearing noises that led him to believe someone was trying to break into his home.

McBride’s family believes she was seeking help after a single-car accident when she went to the front door of Wafer’s home in the 16800 block of Outer Drive near Warren...

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131218/METRO01/312180032#ixzz2nq1hallj
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
December 18, 2013 at 9:22 am

Live tweets: Follow hearing for slaying of Detroit teen Renisha McBride

Oralandar Brand-Williams /The Detroit News

Dearborn Heights— The homeowner accused of killing a 19-year-old Detroit woman on his front porch in the early morning of Nov. 2 faces a preliminary exam today to learn whether he will stand trial on the charges.

Attorneys for Theodore Wafer, the homeowner charged with second-degree murder, manslaughter and firearms violations in connection with Renisha McBride’s death, maintains he acted in self-defense after hearing noises that led him to believe someone was trying to break into his home.

McBride’s family believes she was seeking help after a single-car accident when she went to the front door of Wafer’s home in the 16800 block of Outer Drive near Warren...

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131218/METRO01/312180032#ixzz2nq1hallj
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I thought it a self - defense case too. Not a SYG case. Sadly, McBride turned down at least 2 offers of help at the scene of her alcohol induced car crash and left the scene of the accident. I have no idea what she was doing banging on his door at 4AM and doubt her family does either. With her blood alcohol level at the time of the event, I don't think she knew what she was doing.
 
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