Millard Properties: Locations and Ownership

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You seem to have a lot of questions here Swedie, so let me do my best to find some of the answers for you;

Yes they could have borrowed from the bank, how much, we do not know. Whether or not it's peanuts is relative to each person. And when you say they borrowed for tools and payroll, do you mean average employees like janitors and secretaries or do you mean the big salaries guys like AS were paid (dispute obviously not fulfilling his duties)? Are you also claiming that DM having no patience or ambition is what caused WM to kill himself, or that it was the business going 'belly up' (although again, I am not sure we have verification of that)? I personally know a lot of people with lazy, no good kids who are not in anyway suicidal or in fear for their lives, and many businesses that go under without the owners dying.

It is my opinion that DM has held other jobs or owned other companies prior to becoming CEO of his family's company, he did after all try other interests like cooking. It would not be so unreasonable to assume he earned a living despite being born into a comfortable family.

As was pointed out earlier, all real estate transactions require a financial check by their lawyer or real estate agent to track where the money is coming from, so it must be assumed that the properties that he bought were bought properly, using funds from an acceptable source.

I believe the tools DM was trying to sell were advertised for sale after the death of WM, and after the cancelling of the MTO certificate, although if any sold, we are not yet privy to that information. If he had borrowed large amounts of money for his business and instead put it into real estate, the bank would have noticed, this isn't a student loan, they keep a close on on the money that they lend to businesses. And if WM had given money to DM to purchase the farmland, it wouldn't have been because he knew he was going to die in a few more years, in my opinion, and if it was, what of it? Same if he gave him a gift of money to build a house, or not, what does that have to do with anything relevant here, I wonder?

If AS's account is taken word for word as the gospel, than so should the real estate agent's word that he was a nice guy buying a property who happened to bring his father along one time. In which case we should also take DP's word for it when he said DM is fine financially (so maybe not in debt to Revenue Canada or a bank) until we see proof to the contrary, otherwise we are just speculating without even circumstantial evidence to back it up, in my opinion. To me it is a waste if time speculating if he overpaid for the land, since he picked the price he paid, and the sellers afterward had felt it was worth more.

Why shouldn't he buy a condo when he owned a vacant farmland, it was obviously an investment, and whether or not he got offers for his properties before his arrest is rather moot, is it not? And generally people who are flat broke cannot purchase properties, either to hide their money (what money, they're broke?) or to turn into investment properties, banks don't lend to broke people. Whatever his relationship with his mother at the time, why would he need to put those properties into his mother's name before his arrest, why are we assuming he had to hide that he didn't feel he had to hide, I wonder?

To me, DM seemed completely reasonable in his dealing with AS that was reported, I would have asked the same questions and also would have wondered why the man hired to do his job still hadn't done his job. I think asking AS to discuss it over dinner when things got heated shows a foresight and self control that in my opinion AS did not possess, or he would have suggested it himself. I think anyone would have been apprehensive about pouring more money into something that had no returns as yet on the horizon.

And, I think someone else has already pointed out, that Waterloo invested in the airport because the are also benefitting from those improvements. <modsnip>.
Thanks Juballee-but a couple of things jump out at me in your reply to Swedie. #1) DM's job history or resume. IMO, it's hard to get a job that allows you to travel at will, regardless who's son you are and I've seen absolutely no proof of DM ever working-anywhere :twocents: #2) there hasn't been any info indicating that AS in incompetent in his job. Contrary, I would imagine anyone who's working in the aviation consulting industry and is still employed there must be competent.
IMO, what was lacking here was DM's desire to really be a CEO. Isolating out that one meeting between DM and AS, the strange part was that DM apparently asked how much the company was worth? IMHO, a real CEO should know the answer to that question! He knew the money was going out of the bank account. IMHO, a real CEO, especially one who has a good bunch of his inheritance invested in the business venture, would be having bi-weekly or weekly meetings, conference calls and a report schedule to make sure things were ticking along and on target. JMHO, DM was just CEO on paper. IMO, people with MBA's or years of business experience in an industry know what has to be done and I'm sorry to say, I haven't seen one shred of info that leads me to believe that DM had that skill set or had attempted to get it. MOO
 
Thanks Juballee-but a couple of things jump out at me in your reply to Swedie. #1) DM's job history or resume. IMO, it's hard to get a job that allows you to travel at will, regardless who's son you are and I've seen absolutely no proof of DM ever working-anywhere :twocents: #2) there hasn't been any info indicating that AS in incompetent in his job. Contrary, I would imagine anyone who's working in the aviation consulting industry and is still employed there must be competent.
IMO, what was lacking here was DM's desire to really be a CEO. Isolating out that one meeting between DM and AS, the strange part was that DM apparently asked how much the company was worth? IMHO, a real CEO should know the answer to that question! He knew the money was going out of the bank account. IMHO, a real CEO, especially one who has a good bunch of his inheritance invested in the business venture, would be having bi-weekly or weekly meetings, conference calls and a report schedule to make sure things were ticking along and on target. JMHO, DM was just CEO on paper. IMO, people with MBA's or years of business experience in an industry know what has to be done and I'm sorry to say, I haven't seen one shred of info that leads me to believe that DM had that skill set or had attempted to get it. MOO


1). Just because we do not have his resume or a copy if his job history doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And because we do not have a LinkedIn account for him doesn't mean he has no work or educational background. We have also not seen a copy of his birth certificate, does that mean he was never born? I can name several jobs where people pick their own schedule and make allowances for travel at will; travel agent, pretty much any sales job, business owner, property manager, working on a cruise ship, in the airline industry, etc.

2) My opinion of AS being incompetent was based on the fact that he did not preform his job for Millardair, otherwise he would have secured the contracts he was paid to secure. Just because someone had a successful career before is not an automatic indicator that they still will, you are only as good as your last results, in many businesses. Is he currently employed by another company in the aviation consultant business, and is he achieving results for them that he could not for the Millards?

It doesn't matter to me what your educational background is if you are not performing in your job. I believe knowing the financial worth of the company is more the job of the CFO of a company than the CEO, but perhaps I am wrong.
Or perhaps he was asking AS how much it was worth because he already knew and wanted to see if As would give him an honest answer. Or maybe he was asking for a second opinion. And perhaps since his father was alive and healthy, he wasn't thinking of the hanger as his inheritance, but as his family's business, and looking out for more than just himself.
 
That would be decent monthly I income, provided they still own the lands or maintain a leasehold interestat Pearson. That, along with Riverside rent, one could live off comfortably.

It's my understanding that the lease at Pearson expired.

Company president Wayne Millard told Canadian Skies that after its lease expired at Toronto’s Pearson Airport, the company looked around for a new home and landed in Waterloo.

http://skiesmag.com/news/articles/17044-built-for-bigger.html

I guess it would depend on the terms of the lease what happened to the hangar - whether the landowner would have to buy it or whether they would have to just forfeit the hangar. Maybe Air Transat now has the lease and they bought the hangar from Millard Air.

JMO
 
1). Just because we do not have his resume or a copy if his job history doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And because we do not have a LinkedIn account for him doesn't mean he has no work or educational background. We have also not seen a copy of his birth certificate, does that mean he was never born? I can name several jobs where people pick their own schedule and make allowances for travel at will; travel agent, pretty much any sales job, business owner, property manager, working on a cruise ship, in the airline industry, etc.

2) My opinion of AS being incompetent was based on the fact that he did not preform his job for Millardair, otherwise he would have secured the contracts he was paid to secure. Just because someone had a successful career before is not an automatic indicator that they still will, you are only as good as your last results, in many businesses. Is he currently employed by another company in the aviation consultant business, and is he achieving results for them that he could not for the Millards?

It doesn't matter to me what your educational background is if you are not performing in your job. I believe knowing the financial worth of the company is more the job of the CFO of a company than the CEO, but perhaps I am wrong.
Or perhaps he was asking AS how much it was worth because he already knew and wanted to see if As would give him an honest answer. Or maybe he was asking for a second opinion. And perhaps since his father was alive and healthy, he wasn't thinking of the hanger as his inheritance, but as his family's business, and looking out for more than just himself.

Just to add to this...

DM didn't ask how much the company was worth, he asked "about the value of the company". (At least according to AS.) I don't think that's necessarily the same thing. As in, if the company has no contracts, what is the value in keeping it rather than selling it off to recoup what he could of his losses.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/05/31/millard-aviation-business-in-decline-long-before-tim-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it/

How do we know that AS is still employed in the industry? Just because he owns a consulting business and/or hasn't updated his Linked In, doesn't mean he's still actively doing any work.

JMO
 
It's my understanding that the lease at Pearson expired.



http://skiesmag.com/news/articles/17044-built-for-bigger.html

I guess it would depend on the terms of the lease what happened to the hangar - whether the landowner would have to buy it or whether they would have to just forfeit the hangar. Maybe Air Transat now has the lease and they bought the hangar from Millard Air.

JMO
There could be some confusion here about the hangars. Hangar # 5 was the Millardair Hangar. Hangar # 4 was the hangar that CM built and leased to Canada 3000 and then later to Air Transat. The land lease on Hangar# 5 expired in 2011 and the Millardair business moved. IMO there's a strong possibility that they still own Hangar #5 and that new occupant would have established a new land lease with the airport. They may have either 1)sold the hangar to the airport 2)sold the hangar to someone else or 3)leased it to someone who got their own lease. MOO

IMO, Hangar #4 is still owned by one of the Millard Co's and is still leased to Air Transat. Page 165 http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/9634_MaltonBook.pdf
 
You seem to have a lot of questions here Swedie, so let me do my best to find some of the answers for you;

Yes they could have borrowed from the bank, how much, we do not know. Whether or not it's peanuts is relative to each person. And when you say they borrowed for tools and payroll, do you mean average employees like janitors and secretaries or do you mean the big salaries guys like AS were paid (dispute obviously not fulfilling his duties)? Are you also claiming that DM having no patience or ambition is what caused WM to kill himself, or that it was the business going 'belly up' (although again, I am not sure we have verification of that)? I personally know a lot of people with lazy, no good kids who are not in anyway suicidal or in fear for their lives, and many businesses that go under without the owners dying.

It is my opinion that DM has held other jobs or owned other companies prior to becoming CEO of his family's company, he did after all try other interests like cooking. It would not be so unreasonable to assume he earned a living despite being born into a comfortable family.

As was pointed out earlier, all real estate transactions require a financial check by their lawyer or real estate agent to track where the money is coming from, so it must be assumed that the properties that he bought were bought properly, using funds from an acceptable source.

I believe the tools DM was trying to sell were advertised for sale after the death of WM, and after the cancelling of the MTO certificate, although if any sold, we are not yet privy to that information. If he had borrowed large amounts of money for his business and instead put it into real estate, the bank would have noticed, this isn't a student loan, they keep a close on on the money that they lend to businesses. And if WM had given money to DM to purchase the farmland, it wouldn't have been because he knew he was going to die in a few more years, in my opinion, and if it was, what of it? Same if he gave him a gift of money to build a house, or not, what does that have to do with anything relevant here, I wonder?

If AS's account is taken word for word as the gospel, than so should the real estate agent's word that he was a nice guy buying a property who happened to bring his father along one time. In which case we should also take DP's word for it when he said DM is fine financially (so maybe not in debt to Revenue Canada or a bank) until we see proof to the contrary, otherwise we are just speculating without even circumstantial evidence to back it up, in my opinion. To me it is a waste if time speculating if he overpaid for the land, since he picked the price he paid, and the sellers afterward had felt it was worth more.

Why shouldn't he buy a condo when he owned a vacant farmland, it was obviously an investment, and whether or not he got offers for his properties before his arrest is rather moot, is it not? And generally people who are flat broke cannot purchase properties, either to hide their money (what money, they're broke?) or to turn into investment properties, banks don't lend to broke people. Whatever his relationship with his mother at the time, why would he need to put those properties into his mother's name before his arrest, why are we assuming he had to hide that he didn't feel he had to hide, I wonder?

To me, DM seemed completely reasonable in his dealing with AS that was reported, I would have asked the same questions and also would have wondered why the man hired to do his job still hadn't done his job. I think asking AS to discuss it over dinner when things got heated shows a foresight and self control that in my opinion AS did not possess, or he would have suggested it himself. I think anyone would have been apprehensive about pouring more money into something that had no returns as yet on the horizon.

And, I think someone else has already pointed out, that Waterloo invested in the airport because the are also benefitting from those improvements. <modsnip>

<modsnip>
BTW everything in that long post related only to one topic; DM's financial situation concerning his properties. They are questions I am curious about and giving food for thought about, and know we do not have the answers to, that is why I included All JMO and so many unanswered questions at the end of my post. HTH.

I for one, based on the evidence we have thus far, believe DM and MS are guilty of murdering Tim Bosma. For whatever reason none of us know, but we will find out the answers one day in a court of law. We are here to discuss the case and sleuth possibilities/theories, bring forth evidence when possible and give our opinions based on the case. <modsnip>

sleuth [slooth] Show IPA
noun
1.a detective. Synonyms: investigator, private investigator; private eye, gumshoe, shamus.

2.a bloodhound, a dog used for tracking.
verb (used with object), verb (used without object)

3.to track or trail, as a detective.
 
Thanks Swedie. I'm still not sure where DM grew up! Here are the land titles reports showing the transfers just for clarification-maybe they'll help :websleuther:

Thank you MsS. I haven't had time to read up on the Properties thread but eventually will. Are these titles posted here also? IMO it's somewhat odd there is no information out there as to where he grew up. The only thing I was able to find was that he was born in Toronto and attended a Toronto french school. Nothing as to an address though where his parents lived. We obviously know where his grandparents lived when DM was born but it would be interesting IMO to learn where he lived and grew up. Suburbs, city or country...hmmm. Has anyone been able to establish what french school DM attended? TIA

Toronto District School Board
There are 10 schools across the TDSB that offer secondary school Immersion programs.
They are: Agincourt CI
Cedarbrae CI
Harbord CI
Humberside CI
Lawrence Park CI
Leaside HS
Malvern CI
Newtonbrook SS
Richview CI
York Mills CI
Access to secondary programs are offered through designated pathways from the Grade 8 school.

http://www.tdsb.on.ca/programs/french/

Catholic, Private and Public French Schools
http://www.familycare.utoronto.ca/camps_schools/french_schools.html
 
Thank you MsS. I haven't had time to visit the Properties thread but eventually will. Are these titles posted over there also? IMO it's somewhat odd there is no information out there as to where he grew up. The only thing I was able to find was that he was born in Toronto and attended a Toronto french school. Nothing as to an address though where his parents lived. We obviously know where his grandparents lived when DM was born but it would be interesting IMO to learn where he lived and grew up. Suburbs, city or country...hmmm. Has anyone been able to establish what french school DM attended? TIA

Toronto District School Board
There are 10 schools across the TDSB that offer secondary school Immersion programs.
They are: Agincourt CI
Cedarbrae CI
Harbord CI
Humberside CI
Lawrence Park CI
Leaside HS
Malvern CI
Newtonbrook SS
Richview CI
York Mills CI
Access to secondary programs are offered through designated pathways from the Grade 8 school.

http://www.tdsb.on.ca/programs/french/

http://www.tfs.ca/



<modsnip> this IS the properties thread, and the name of the French school is actually The Toronto French School. Also, according to the MSM, the Etobicoke home was his childhood home, although there was some confusion over the placement of a comma, in my opinion.
 
Swedie there was extensive discussion about DMs enrolment at TFS if you want to look it up probably in the DM Arrested thread. There's no point in hashing it up again but I can tell you nobody participating in the discussion knew how long he was there although MSM confirmed he did not graduate from there. Also, I believe I'd read he went to the Mississauga campus however that only goes up to grade 7, according to their website, at which point a lot of kids transfer to the Toronto campus to continue. That should sum it up although if you have any questions about his time there you can certainly go digging in the WS threads but I can assure you your questions may go unanswered. There isn't much information out there.
 
I think I remember reading somewhere that DM was considered a shrewd businessman, in my opinion, it would not have been too shrewd to only be charging the lowest market rental rate, unless perhaps he was just a nice guy. But of course, that is just my opinion.


Not too shrewd IMO...

To dismantle the business before things really got underway and plans came to fruition could mean getting back just 20 cents for every dollar invested.

Yet that&#8217;s exactly what Dellen, Wayne&#8217;s sole heir, did when his father died suddenly.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/ne...-bosma-murder-suspect-started-to-dismantle-it
 
In my opinion, it is far more shrewd to get 20 cents on the dollar than to keep throwing good money after bad, and end up with zero cents on the dollar and heavily in debt. Some people prefer to get out while they still have a shirt on their back, and not wait until they lose their pants too.

Exactly. So if DM's father was throwing good money after bad, that would be a motive for DM to kill him (or arrange to have him killed).
 
Exactly. So if DM's father was throwing good money after bad, that would be a motive for DM to kill him (or arrange to have him killed).


Is it really that common to kill a parent when you don't like how they are spending? How do we know the questions DM asked AS weren't first discussed between WM and DM, with it decided that DM should be the one to ask the questions? Is there some evidence that WM was keen to throw more money into it and DM was the only one who wasn't?
 
Is it really that common to kill a parent when you don't like how they are spending? How do we know the questions DM asked AS weren't first discussed between WM and DM, with it decided that DM should be the one to ask the questions? Is there some evidence that WM was keen to throw more money into it and DM was the only one who wasn't?

We don't know what was going on or what questions were asked. All we know is that WM is dead, TB is dead, and DM is in jail. Now that LE are taking another look at the 'suicide' case, they might ask a few more questions themselves this time around...like was it actually a murder, and if so, who did it? Who would have a motive? Quite possibly his own son.
 
Is it really that common to kill a parent when you don't like how they are spending? How do we know the questions DM asked AS weren't first discussed between WM and DM, with it decided that DM should be the one to ask the questions? Is there some evidence that WM was keen to throw more money into it and DM was the only one who wasn't?

JMHO Juballee, I don't think we can loose sight over who's fortune it really was...IMO it was WM's fortune & the results of WM's & CM's hard work in a very tough business-good investing-deciding to invest rather than spend that got the Millard fortune where it was. JMHO it was only DM's inheritance - WM was just trying to get him to work for a bit of it? Both CM and WM had thousands of flight hours and pilots don't get those types of hours taking joy rides around the City and playing at will. They invented patented avionics equipment, had humble beginnings, worked hard with determination and dedication. IMO, it wasn't DM's decision-WM called the money shots. Also, there have been instances where wealthy children murder a parent/parents. Rare "yes"-impossible "no" MOO

A good tribute to a hard working aviation family-page 165 give or take a few.

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/9634_MaltonBook.pdf
 
JMHO Juballee, I don't think we can loose sight over who's fortune it really was...IMO it was WM's fortune & the results of WM's & CM's hard work in a very tough business-good investing-deciding to invest rather than spend that got the Millard fortune where it was. JMHO it was only DM's inheritance - WM was just trying to get him to work for a bit of it? Both CM and WM had thousands of flight hours and pilots don't get those types of hours taking joy rides around the City and playing at will. They invented patented avionics equipment, had humble beginnings, worked hard with determination and dedication. IMO, it wasn't DM's decision-WM called the money shots. Also, there have been instances where wealthy children murder a parent/parents. Rare "yes"-impossible "no" MOO

A good tribute to a hard working aviation family-page 165 give or take a few.

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/9634_MaltonBook.pdf


I tend to agree with you, it was WM's money and he was likely calling the shots, and it wouldn't have been considered DM's inheritance until after WM had passed away. And I enjoyed the read, thank you for that. To me it was also interesting that it was originally an air and auto parts business. Is it possible that the humble upbringing was passed on to DM?
 
JMHO Juballee, I don't think we can loose sight over who's fortune it really was...IMO it was WM's fortune & the results of WM's & CM's hard work in a very tough business-good investing-deciding to invest rather than spend that got the Millard fortune where it was. JMHO it was only DM's inheritance - WM was just trying to get him to work for a bit of it? Both CM and WM had thousands of flight hours and pilots don't get those types of hours taking joy rides around the City and playing at will. They invented patented avionics equipment, had humble beginnings, worked hard with determination and dedication. IMO, it wasn't DM's decision-WM called the money shots. Also, there have been instances where wealthy children murder a parent/parents. Rare "yes"-impossible "no" MOO

A good tribute to a hard working aviation family-page 165 give or take a few.

http://www.mississauga.ca/file/COM/9634_MaltonBook.pdf

:goodpost: I am very much in agreement with you. There's no doubt in my mind if DM had legal employment outside of Millardair, we would have known by now. An employer or other employees would have come forward very early on in the case to share that info. MOO

I'm of the impression WM held the purse strings pretty tight when it came to himself and/or DM's requests near the end of his life. In his obit DM stated "He was frugal with himself and generous to others." So many conclusions can be drawn by that statement.

In DM's younger years his peers never knew there was wealth in the family as DM never looked or acted the part. Then in recent years we have DM who seemed to have many expensive toys and trips abroad. Was WM still holding tight to the purse strings but allowing DM the odd luxury? Did he make DM work at the hangar to earn the money he spent on his toys? Again I believe DM would have been on the payroll of Millardair. Maybe DM stole these toys also, telling WM they belonged to his friends. When DM wrote that sentence, did he write it out of resentment? Had he seen his dad lavish gifts, trips, expensive meals out with executives or others, did WM put on extravagant Christmas parties, Annual General Meeting parties, staff meetings, treated EG financially well, his ex-wife, donate generously to animal rights, ect.? Was DM and WM arguing over money just before WM death because DM was requesting more money from WM? Did DM not fully understand the financial condition of Millardair, turning to AS for information? Again, so many questions and no answers, just food for thought. And MOO.

When I think of adult children murdering their wealthy parents, I think of the Menendez brothers and L Swartz case. I does happen.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/menendez/index_1.html

http://crime.about.com/od/juvenile/a/larryswartz.htm
 
YOU

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