Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[Missouri Mule]

This source of yours has presented a plausible theory, but we have yet to see any real evidence. No matter how firmly your source believes his theory, he may be incorrect.

As for Clay and Recla, I'm not willing to take someone's stripper sister's word for an alibi. I'd also want to see proof that the one who was in Illinois, Riedel, didn't have a big enough window to commit the crime. Perps have been known to travel out of the area in order to set up an alibi, only to return surreptitiously to commit a homicide.

Unlikely, not from the reputation of his source. He stressed many, many times that the identity of the perp was known. And he had been tracking him for a period of approximately 10 years. But as you say, he could have been wrong.

As to the crypt vandals and their alibi, it does as you suggest, rest on the sister's words and being a "stripper" which she disputes, is shaky. However, I have read a long detailed explanation of her remembrance and she struck me as being both intelligent and forthright. She also said she was more of a waitress than a stripper. That is in dispute. All we really know for certain is that she was working making an honest living at a legal establishment.

I totally agree about someone traveling long distances to establish an alibi. The best known example is the female NASA astronaut who traveled a long distance to confront a rival for her love interest and wore adult diapers to make the time frame seem impossible. There have been other examples.

What is missing is sufficient motive. While it would seem that the upcoming trial would be a motive, that may be purely coincidental as graduation was falling just one week prior to the trial. And if the motive was to keep her off the witness stand, it would quickly point to the crypt vandals as the most likely perpetrators. Having communicated extensively with one of them I just don't believe that is what took place here. It is not implausible that the third vandal, who evidently have a reputation for "blabbing" might have stirred up a hornet's nest we would need to look to someone else entirely, either corrupt cops or drug dealers in the vicinity.

The more likely explanation is the one I have previously discussed today. This subject is a moving target so as new information comes to light I will revisit here to provide my additional thoughts.

 

[Florentia]

The girls were out partying most of the night. They arrived at the Delmar home at 2:45 AM (approximately).

They took off their make-up and were preparing to go to bed. And we know that Stacy was clad only in her panties from the waist down. We have no idea what Suzie was wearing.

Both Sherrill and Suzie were heavy smokers. Since the smell of cigarette smoke arguably would have been very unpleasant to Stacy, who after all, had migraine headaches, it is altogether plausible both of them went outside to smoke cigarettes and leave Stacy to go to sleep and then return inside to go to bed after smoking the cigarettes.

If the lone stalker and with possibly a friend came to the house and they were outside, as seems increasingly plausible, a dispute of some kind arose. They may have been talked to get into the vehicle to talk things over and get calmed down and the visitor(s) were not seen has threatening. And for whatever reason, things went south. They left and realized that there was a third person in the house being there were three cars in the driveway and/or carport. They came back to get Stacy at which time she resisted and was dragged out of the house.

Because of the way the doors swung in opposite directions, it almost certainly took two individuals to get her out of the house. At some point the globe was broken on the porch.

We can eliminate robbery as a motive because of the money left in Sherrrill's purse. No one really knows how the purses came to be lined up on the steps to Suzie's step-down bedroom (a converted garage.) They could have been placed there by one of the 18 or so visitors to the home looking for clues.

The bottom line is that we are running out of suspects.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I do not know what to think about this theory: some of its assertions seem plausible, while others I find a bit forced. Undoubtedly, it is Stacy's part or role the one I object the most. Mother and daughter going out to smoke seems logical to me, but not Stacy being unaware of the skirmish. It could be said that she had been partying late and therefore was too exhausted to hear the garden issue; but even if that was the case, it is undeniable that when one sleeps in others' houses, the simple fact of resting on a bed that is not the usual one, or the sounds of a neighbourhood that is not the habitual, are enough not to let the sleeper reach a deep sleep. Thus, Stacy should have been aware somethig was happening oudoors.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Thank you very much for your detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I do not know what to think about this theory: some of its assertions seem plausible, while others I find a bit forced. Undoubtedly, it is Stacy's part or role the one I object the most. Mother and daughter going out to smoke seems logical to me, but not Stacy being unaware of the skirmish. It could be said that she had been partying late and therefore was too exhausted to hear the garden issue; but even if that was the case, it is undeniable that when one sleeps in others' houses, the simple fact of resting on a bed that is not the usual one, or the sounds of a neighbourhood that is not the habitual, are enough not to let the sleeper reach a deep sleep. Thus, Stacy should have been aware something was happening outdoors.

Not necessarily. Suzie's bedroom was in the rear of the house. If, the intruders and Sherrill and/or Suzie were out in the front, I doubt she would have heard any sounds. After being out most of the night, I would imagine she was sound asleep.

We have the matter of the cracked blinds in her bedroom. Suzie may have recognized someone from the partying and believed they were trustworthy. However, Sherrill, who was by all accounts very security minded and undoubtedly was at least partially wakened when the girls arrived, she probably went outside to accompany Suzie. Suzie may have told Sherrill that she knew the guy and he was really a nice guy. Sherrill being much older and wiser was dubious about this or perhaps she too, knew the individual. In any event it would appear that the first crime scene was in the front yard. (I'm not aware of a garden).

What should be of interest is the placement of the cigarette packs. That could hold a clue. Someone who has followed this case for years commented about that many years ago and it flew over my head. I'm going to check that out again. It could be that the cigarettes were placed in the bedroom for some unknown reason. Who knows what goes through the mind of a killer?

 

[Ozoner]

Not necessarily. Suzie's bedroom was in the rear of the house. If, the intruders and Sherrill and/or Suzie were out in the front, I doubt she would have heard any sounds. After being out most of the night, I would imagine she was sound asleep.

We have the matter of the cracked blinds in her bedroom. Suzie may have recognized someone from the partying and believed they were trustworthy. However, Sherrill, who was by all accounts very security minded and undoubtedly was at least partially wakened when the girls arrived, she probably went outside to accompany Suzie. Suzie may have told Sherrill that she knew the guy and he was really a nice guy. Sherrill being much older and wiser was dubious about this or perhaps she too, knew the individual. In any event it would appear that the first crime scene was in the front yard. (I'm not aware of a garden).

What should be of interest is the placement of the cigarette packs. That could hold a clue. Someone who has followed this case for years commented about that many years ago and it flew over my head. I'm going to check that out again. It could be that the cigarettes were placed in the bedroom for some unknown reason. Who knows what goes through the mind of a killer?

We still haven't seen the evidence for any of this.

Not being able to rule someone out doesn't prove anything; that could just mean that the guy was home alone and didn't have an alibi.

What evidence connects this suspect to the crime? Has he made incriminating statements? Have witnesses placed him near the scene of the crime?

LE should be able to check phone records in order to determine whether he was the one who made the obscene phone calls.

 

[Florentia]

Not necessarily. Suzie's bedroom was in the rear of the house. If, the intruders and Sherrill and/or Suzie were out in the front, I doubt she would have heard any sounds. After being out most of the night, I would imagine she was sound asleep.

We have the matter of the cracked blinds in her bedroom. Suzie may have recognized someone from the partying and believed they were trustworthy. However, Sherrill, who was by all accounts very security minded and undoubtedly was at least partially wakened when the girls arrived, she probably went outside to accompany Suzie. Suzie may have told Sherrill that she knew the guy and he was really a nice guy. Sherrill being much older and wiser was dubious about this or perhaps she too, knew the individual. In any event it would appear that the first crime scene was in the front yard. (I'm not aware of a garden).

What should be of interest is the placement of the cigarette packs. That could hold a clue. Someone who has followed this case for years commented about that many years ago and it flew over my head. I'm going to check that out again. It could be that the cigarettes were placed in the bedroom for some unknown reason. Who knows what goes through the mind of a killer?

Once again, thank you very much. This case is an absolute surprise, I have never thought about the placement of the cigarettes, but they well could carry a hidden -and perhaps important- meaning.

 

[scadagirl28]

I guess the cigarettes placement has gone over my head . If I have it wrong please correct . We have two new packets in Sherrill and Suzee purses. One opened pack by Suzee's bed. One cigarette in Sherrill's smoking tray unlit. How does that indicate anything other than they were both heavy smokers? Also for the theory to work the purses couldn't have been moved from there original spot.

 

[Catmommy]

Is it true that picture/photos were removed from the frames in the house? If so, this hardly speaks of a stranger danger, corrupt cop or random serial killer. Why would ANY of those feel the need to remove photographs?

 

[Florentia]

Good evening, Missouri Mule. Two questions that keep haunting my mind since you explained your theory:

1-You affirmed you believe the perpetrator has posted here. I wonder if you know or can guess why. Just to see how much nearer or farther people are from the truth? To brag about his knowledge? Whatever the reason is, I find his or her posting a creepy attitude, surely belonging to a very cold and clever person.
2-Do you have any idea, or do you know it for certain, if there are many people who know the truth about this crime? I have the positive impression you are a trustworthy person, so it would not be a surprise to me if someone told you the truth in a kind of confession on which you are morally obliged to keep silence due to the "seal of the confessional". Of course, I mean people who were neither perpetrators nor accomplices to this crime. Simple people who know what hapenned but keep silent.
Once more, thank you for your insight and your kindness.

 

[Florentia]

Is it true that picture/photos were removed from the frames in the house? If so, this hardly speaks of a stranger danger, corrupt cop or random serial killer. Why would ANY of those feel the need to remove photographs?

I could never confirm that it happened, but if you read old news about the case in a detailed way, somehow authorities seem to be reluctant to comment on the issue. I remember having also read about a threatening note left in the house, but the Police has always denied it. However, if those pictures were stolen, as you well said, it could mean the perpetrator/s knew them.

 

[Missouri Mule]

Good evening, Missouri Mule. Two questions that keep haunting my mind since you explained your theory:

1-You affirmed you believe the perpetrator has posted here. I wonder if you know or can guess why. Just to see how much nearer or farther people are from the truth? To brag about his knowledge? Whatever the reason is, I find his or her posting a creepy attitude, surely belonging to a very cold and clever person.

2-Do you have any idea, or do you know it for certain, if there are many people who know the truth about this crime? I have the positive impression you are a trustworthy person, so it would not be a surprise to me if someone told you the truth in a kind of confession on which you are morally obliged to keep silence due to the "seal of the confessional". Of course, I mean people who were neither perpetrators nor accomplices to this crime. Simple people who know what hapenned but keep silent.

Once more, thank you for your insight and your kindness.

Well I want no credit regardless of how this plays out. I want that clear.

I’ve been looking at him for some time. People who mislead unnecessarily get my antenna to go up. Recently he has been acting erratically. I see no reasonable explanation for that.

No one has given me the name. I wish I could say I know but I don’t. I’m just along for the ride. Another site is going bananas about this case and there are about 54,000 posts this far. I’m virtually certain he is there and it is akin to reading tea leaves.

I could be entirely wrong about everything. The only thing I am certain of is that we are running out of suspects.

No matter how suspicious someone may appear, if their alibi is rock solid they couldn’t have committed the crime.

I would say one other thing. Anyone who claims to have an alibi for over 25 years including the time and place is a prime suspect. I can’t remember what I did yesterday to any degree of accuracy.

I used to think it was wrapped up with a bow on the top. Names and motives seemed perfect yet it didn’t stand the test of time, evidently.

 

[k-mac]

This is exactly what I believe , the graverobbers or their acquaintances, or a combination of both , Maybe the graverobbers didn't kill but they had some part in this crime, even not in a direct way. I definitely think that if Susie had never met the graverobbers then we didn't have this thread.

I am very curious to know the current reasons that you also see them as very
viable suspects in the list , I respect your wish not to share the reasons right now but I will be very glad if you share them in the future.

my theory has always revolved around the graverobbers.​

and I have been shot down by mm about it. 100% dismissed. :facepalm:

because...at the end of the day most murders are not random.you have to look at what these people had going on in there lives at that time.
now those boys were not soft and sweet little do gooders. they would uproot deadbodies to steal from them....oh my god.
immoralistic and cold hearted.​

who gained from suzie not being around???

interesting that she was one week away from giving evidence at their trial .

I can not get past this very important point that gets oversighted here constantly.​

 

[k-mac]

On one of the youtube clips regarding the case there is an interview with one of the Police investigators and he said that there were Police investigators during the time of the disappearance that thought the the Graverobbers shouldn't cleared and shouldn't ruled out as suspects!
He clearly implies that he too is among those investigators .
( from 3:30- 4:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQkhWXmCZTM

exactly! :drumroll:

 

[k-mac]

For reasons I won't go into at this time, I am placing the grave robbers back on the list as viable suspects.

yes!

 

[k-mac]

the grave robbers
looking at it from motive perspective 100% them.
looking at it from goulish creepy comfortabilitywith death 100% them.

was the trial not abandoned a week later without suzies testimony???
hmmmm
who benefited from that.

and I'm quite sure a person comfortable with delving around stealing body parts off corpes is quite cool under pressure and pass a lie detector exam.....

the moronic police department need to hand in their badges.

sorry to requote myself from july but catching up on the thread I'm not surprised mm that digging deeper the grave robbers got a free pass when they at minimum needed a good hard look.
where do these guys get their badges.....cereal boxes????

 

[k-mac]

I do not believe they were involved. I have had extensive discussions with one of them and I've seen no inconsistencies.

I'll say it once again if I haven't already done so. IMO, this was a real or fake cop, if it was not a trusted person. That doesn't mean that the cop wasn't already known or trusted. No one lets just anyone into their home at 3:30 AM in the morning. But most would if a cop knocked on their door. A single cop (or fake cop) could have pulled this off by himself. A conspiracy of one and nothing has leaked.

There were some interesting activities going on in a neighboring county, Webster County, where the Attorney General, Jay Nixon, later to become governor went to court to remove the sheriff from office. That sheriff used to be the Assistant Police Chief at the SPD. I have been informed that he was the defacto "lead investigator" who handled this case. The case was handled differently than any case before or since. There was considerable dissension in the ranks of good officers who were so disgusted they asked to be let off the case.

That is a thumbnail sketch of where I think this discussion should be headed. I just don't view the grave robbers as viable suspects. Just don't.

In fact, I believe the viable suspect list is nearly invisible. I no longer view Cox as the perp; at least not by himself. He had to have been helped into the house and I just don't see that.

The so-called "Grand Jury 3" (whose identities are known) just don't seem to be viable suspects either. I've also had some contact as well.

I think most of the digs in Webster County in or around Rogersville were nothing but wild goose chases.

What one might want to look into is the very strange incident where the attorney of the rapist was threatened in his office. I've rolled that around in my head and it is not what one thinks, or so I have been told. That is written up in the newspaper at the time. Very, very odd.

On the Hall businesss, I think that is a dry hole and has been deemed to be such.

haven't seen you mention a direct connection to the grave robbers lately.
you insisted that you believed him and had a meeting directly.
refresh our memories on what transpired and more so on reflection whats changed
tia

 

[Missouri Mule]

my theory has always revolved around the graverobbers.​

and I have been shot down by mm about it. 100% dismissed. :facepalm:

because...at the end of the day most murders are not random.you have to look at what these people had going on in there lives at that time.
now those boys were not soft and sweet little do gooders. they would uproot deadbodies to steal from them....oh my god.
immoralistic and cold hearted.​

who gained from suzie not being around???

interesting that she was one week away from giving evidence at their trial .

I can not get past this very important point that gets oversighted here constantly.​

These were above ground crypts, not graves. As I understand it, there were no living relatives and they were charged with "institutionalized vandalism" which carries with it a lesser penalty.

 

[Missouri Mule]

haven't seen you mention a direct connection to the grave robbers lately.
you insisted that you believed him and had a meeting directly.
refresh our memories on what transpired and more so on reflection whats changed
tia

Garrison called me at home from the prison. The conversation lasted about 10 minutes.

He said he did not know the biker who came into the attorney's office, Dean Price, to threaten him and his family.

He also said those sites in Webster County did not come from him. This is the common understanding or implied understanding because he was so much in the news having to do with the rape of the college student.

Garrison and Recla had a connection as I recall as well as one of the infamous Robb family in Rogersville. A triple murder took place there where three other individuals were murdered, dismembered and then burned. Their ashes were thrown into Panther Creek which feeds into the larger James River which runs all the way down to Table Rock Lake. And I believe there were yet three more murders there by a related family. Two of the Robbs are dead and the surviving one is in prison, last I heard.

Trying to get reliable information from the SPD is like squeezing blood from a turnip. I had thought this was nailed down tightly with a lengthy report I saw which seemed to lay out the perps and the probable motive. However it hasn't stood the test of time.

I suppose if and whenever this case is solved it will fit together but I doubt I will be alive to see it.

 

[k-mac]

i didn't mention garrison.....

stop deflecting away in hope you wont be held accountable for the lies you throw around here.

you stated."

I do not believe they were involved. I have had extensive discussions with one of them and I've seen no inconsistencies​

"
I just posted it above.

now you ignore my query about these "so called"discussions.

starting to see a picture here and pattern .
I can only assume that everybody else spent time on this forum has seen it too.

 

[kat913]

A thought I just had which can probably be proven wrong because I don't know all the details....but I wonder if when the girls' first plan was to go to Janelle Kirby's house and it was too full of relatives....wonder if any of those relatives took an interest in following the girls. They may have been from out of town (I believe as far as Kansas) and maybe not a thought for LE because the girls didn't stay there but maybe that's where they were first spotted..... just an idea...

 

[Missouri Mule]

A thought I just had which can probably be proven wrong because I don't know all the details....but I wonder if when the girls' first plan was to go to Janelle Kirby's house and it was too full of relatives....wonder if any of those relatives took an interest in following the girls. They may have been from out of town (I believe as far as Kansas) and maybe not a thought for LE because the girls didn't stay there but maybe that's where they were first spotted..... just an idea...

That is an idea I have never seen advanced before. Thought provoking.

It seems that that almost all of the emphasis has been on the vandals and the “GJ3” and no thinking out of the box.

As I probably have said, no matter how unattractive or unsympathetic a suspect may be, if he or she had no opportunity to commit the crime they must be necessarily eliminated.

And we should bear in mind the last official of LE to be on the outlook for a kidnapper whose whereabouts could not be accounted from 9PM and 6 AM.

I think we may not know nor never may know who that is. It may in fact be an unknown stalker.