"Mistatements" and/or Lies by Cindy & George

[LCoastMom]

Henry Lee said that the pizza had ham on it.

Processed, smoked, cooked and preservative-laden meat and a body (pig or human) in NO way smell alike.

Ham & bacon in former times wasn't refrigerated. It was hung from the rafters until it was used. Back then food wasn't full of preservatives, either.

There was no pizza!!!! There was an empty pizza box!!

 

[BeenaBobba]

One minute it's "kids lie all the time"

The next it's something like - she's an adult. she can spend the night anywhere she wants.

:clap:

Exactly! "Kids" lie about doing their homework -- not about where they've been working for the past couple of years.

 

[USARDOG]

You make a good point and could be right on with that observation. We haven't seen any evidence to the effect that they hounded LE, therefore, it may even be likely, from what we've seen, or haven't seen, combined with what we do know about the A's, that they didn't. However well thought out, this is still speculation.

My point is this: We need to make a distinction between opinion/speculation and actual fact. Speculation, however well informed or based on what is actually known, is still speculation. Facts and logical proof are only valuable if we don't confuse them with speculation i.e. opinion. Likewise, speculation can be quite valuable at getting to the truth, but not if we confuse it with fact/truth.

So in this instance, we don't know whether the A's did or did not, in fact, hound LE about the addresses. CA has complained that LE has not followed up on things.

Sometimes silence is also proof. In the A's case, what ever they were thinking came out to the press. The only clues that I remember CA complaining about LE not following up were some wild around the country clues and I don't think they sent anyone to PR. As my memory serves, they followed up on "sightings" around the country until they were sure they had the killer.

If you remember LE talking to KC saying so far, every lead, every address you have taken us to is a lie. If there were more LE wasn't following up on, I believe both KC and CA would have been screaming bloody he$$ and we would clearly have heard about it. Also KC would have told them in the begining... Oh, wait, I gave Mom an address book with ZFG's phone numbers and addresses, lets check on those. I do believe someone one at one of those addresses would have remembered a tall, beautiful 10 living next door.

 

[LambChop]

There was no pizza!!!! There was an empty pizza box!!

t


Again, way off topic here, but you are right....there was no pizza in the bag, the bag that was taken from the car at the tow yard. The Lab did do a test on a pizza which was brought into the lab to dispel the rumor that the maggots were from the pizza. Dr. Lee did not get maggots off the pizza because no pizza was found in the box. Pizza in the box was CA spinning another mistruth. I believe GA assumed there was pizza in the box when it was opened in the tow yard but the manager of the tow yard took the bag and threw it over the fence at the dumpster. Processed ham does not decompose, there are no toxins in ham, ham rots. Decomp comes from everything in the body, tissue, organs, blood, toxins, waste matter all breaking down. You won't find that in ham. Ham is just processed meat.

 

[Duckley]

There are errors of commission - for example telling a lie. There are also errors of ommission - this refers to everything you dont say or do. I wonder if this is their modus operandi.

I had a co-worker who was nice as could be - I was new at the job. if I asked him something specific, he would tell me. He never offered any additional information about anything - be it office supplies or customer info.

He would never lie - but he would never elaborate. If I didnt ask the question in the right way it was too bad for me. It was more about what he didnt say or never told me that was problematic.

He was a kind of hostile guy. Smug, superior, jealous, resentful.

 

[BeenaBobba]

It looks to me like Casey had been doing some under the table type of work for a company using the Universal name. There is a Canadian software company with the name in the email but not the email address. I'm wondering if this "company" used this name as a cover.

So, let me get this straight: Casey was working under the table for a company that coincidentally has the same name as the company she worked for and was fired from two years prior? A Jeffrey Michael Hopkins also worked for this company, and there was also a Jeffrey Hopkins who also worked for Universal Studios? Just like there were two Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalezes associated with Sawgrass? Seems like there are an awful lot of coincidences if that were the case. On the other hand, we have Casey, who is known and shown to be a habitual liar. Logically, I think it's more likely that Casey was lying.

It should also be noted that Casey is the one who insisted that she worked at Universal Studios. If Casey had a job where she was being paid under the table, then why did she steal "a lot of money" (Cindy's words) from her parents? Doesn't add up.

 

[LCoastMom]

Yes, I understand. This is really gross, but how would you compare it to a rotting pig? And how clear would you be about it 20 years from now? Remember, the air samples said only that there MAY have been a human decomp event. I've seen nothing that shows me yet it couldn't have been pig or pork product. So are you saying there is no way that they could now think it was something else they smelled and they are absolutely lying? They couldn't have been reacting out of fear? I know, LE said it smelled like human too. How long before they impounded the car? Sometime on the 16th it looks like according to p294 but I don't know how much of this isn't a misstatement. I know one for sure, but it isn't from the Anthony's. They have Cindy listed as a black female, DOB 9/22/1980, 27 years old, black hair and brown eyes. (p293) Hmmm. They first smelled it the night of July 15th? How sure were they? The detective that took the car as evidence used the term, "unidentifiable odor" when making his report. I see he made a correct notation of the vin but overlooked the black woman. Seems like this case is just filled with misstatements or misjudgments.

Ok I found it. On p.310, on 7/17/08 at 15:45 the cadaver dog hit on the passenger fender at the trunk. Now, isn't that where the garbage bag was, on the passenger side of the trunk?

Some of your statements are over lapping and I'm having trouble following what goes to what.

LE didn't make first contact with the A's until after 10pm on 7/15, the first 12 to 14 hours were spent determining what they were dealing with, originally thought to be a missing/kidnapped child, then determined to be something much more sinister. From best we've been able to figure out even though they didn't immediately take the car to CSI, there were uniformed officers at the house 24/7 until after the car was picked up. When looking for a missing child there was no need to take/suspect the car came into play with the whole mess.

When KC was first arrested there was an inmate in the jail named Cindy Anthony who matched the description in your post. I'm not sure what you meant in your post, or what she has to do with the Anths.

There was no trash bag in the Pontiac at the house, it was left at the car lot and retrieved by OCSD day1.

There was no pizza in the trunk, there was an empty pizza box in the trash bag. Cindy is the one who started the pizza theory. When Geo brought home the smelly car Cindy asked him, that smell is from the trash it's pizza, right? George knew what she was really saying and he couldn't bring himself to hurt her so he said yes. The whole pizza mess is because of a little white lie.

IIRC the lab reports said it maybe a human decomp event but it was not an animal decomp event. The term, "unidentifiable odor" only means what ever caused it is not obvious at that moment vs if a body had been in the car to go with the smell.

 

[Devon]

I agree with what you are describing, But, considering CA's behavior during the depo. especially when this exchange was occouring, I doubt CA was 'meaning' a "had" and "sent". I say this based on a couple of reasons. She was so dead-set to put the depo lawyers in their place that she would have been yelling this point exactly. I suspect she would have jumped out of her chair and on the table to say "NO! You huttbole, I said someone had gone there! I DID NOT send anyone you dumbazz!" And maybe would have referenced the above article imo

I agree that her original terminology is ambiguous but she seemed pretty emphatic in this depo that she had not previously said (or meant) that she'd 'sent' someone - stating that to suggest such would be a 'bare-faced lie'.

I personally feel that her description of having 'had' someone search the woods was said more for effect and emphasis, i.e. her 'team' had been there before LE and had found nothing. I know that it's hard to tell when the A's are giving it straight sometimes, but in this instance I really don't think the A's knew about DC's search until after the event. I think he got a tip from somewhere else and decided to check it out before mentioning it to them.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

From what I've read, cadaver dogs do train with human blood, so it is possible that they could alert to that. But were used sanitary napkins and/or human blood found in the trunk? I don't recall having read that.

As for "delayed reaction," if the smell permeated the entire trunk area, then it hardly matters where the dogs hit.

Cadaver dogs DO NOT hit on blood unless the blood is from a DEAD BODY. Normal blood does not have the chemicals in it to alert a cadaver dog.

I will laugh my rear off if they try to use that one in court.

 

[BeenaBobba]

Cadaver dogs DO NOT hit on blood unless the blood is from a DEAD BODY. Normal blood does not have the chemicals in it to alert a cadaver dog.

Really? Well, if that is the case, then I stand corrected.

 

[whiteangora]

Cadaver dogs DO NOT hit on blood unless the blood is from a DEAD BODY. Normal blood does not have the chemicals in it to alert a cadaver dog.

I will laugh my rear off if they try to use that one in court.

I know one thing, I may not have helped much in solving this case but I have learned such interesting things from just reading here.

 

[LCoastMom]

It looks to me like Casey had been doing some under the table type of work for a company using the Universal name. There is a Canadian software company with the name in the email but not the email address. I'm wondering if this "company" used this name as a cover. No, they didn't track the IP. They only called THE Universal where she worked at one time. Also, the detective said none of the addresses were valid but I sent out an email to a couple to test them and they were valid address, just closed down. There are ways illegal businesses can fake email addresses and make a phone number look like someone else's. To my knowledge they have yet to release any other phone company records Casey has been attached to. I'm still convinced there was a blackjack due to a comment on her former boss' myspace. They haven't bothered to track that record down or if they have, are withholding it. If there was a Julliette Lewis in her phone book I missed it. But just because something is or isn't in that phone doesn't mean it or that person doesn't exist. My first thought was that these people should be in that phone but when I read the myspace comment, then read there were several other phones taken by LE I have to withhold judgment on that because I obviously don't have all the facts.

It wouldn't surprise me if some wise azz after reading those addy's decided to open accts in those names, when Yuri attempted to contact them he got an error message saying the addy's not good. LE probably sent those users a note saying they could be busted for interfering in an on going investigation to shut them down. Can you honestly believe Universal is going to be using a free internet provider? My goodness they make movies on computers there, they certainly must have their own internet service.

I can't say positively LE checked out the IP addresses, but with their apparent objective of no stone unturned, I can't imagine they would have let that slide by!!

I can say they called Universal more than once, there were multiple people at Universal they needed to make contact with, personnel, supervisor and another supervisor if IIRC.

Yes, just because KC doesn't have their phone number doesn't mean someone doesn't exist, but since personnel was able to establish the names KC gave them were not employed when KC said they were, if at all; it does make them highly suspicious about whether a real person with that name knows KC.

It also makes it highly suspect that all these people only KC knows have moved out of the area recently. But surely not to Mars, if a long time friend of yours had her baby go missing and was arrested, wouldn't you call up to offer support or to tell LE what you know?

 

[AlwaysShocked]

There are many good articles on the net about how cadaver dogs are trained. The error about bandaids and sanitary napkins was stated by a law enforcement person to the press in the Haleigh Cummings case at the time dogs hit on a dumpster. So this erroneous information seems to be "out there".

Nancy Grace has had several dog trainers on her show who explained about how the dogs are trained. It was very interesting.

So there are tracking dogs, cadaver dogs, drug-sniffing dogs, explosives sniffing dogs, etc.

Bottom line on the cadaver dogs is they are trained specifically to detect the chemicals that are part of the decomposition of human tissue after death.

 

[LCoastMom]

I agree that her original terminology is ambiguous but she seemed pretty emphatic in this depo that she had not previously said (or meant) that she'd 'sent' someone - stating that to suggest such would be a 'bare-faced lie'.

I personally feel that her description of having 'had' someone search the woods was said more for effect and emphasis, i.e. her 'team' had been there before LE and had found nothing. I know that it's hard to tell when the A's are giving it straight sometimes, but in this instance I really don't think the A's knew about DC's search until after the event. I think he got a tip from somewhere else and decided to check it out before mentioning it to them.

I agree with this line of thought, it makes a lot of sense. C & G were both extremely upset on those days, I'm sure they don't remember half of what they said to anyone.

Too bad JA didn't take the opportunity to tell her "Well, so much for the efforts of your team" with all the nasty little digs the A's were doling out to LE. But under the circumstances we've come to know, it's best that he didn't!!

 

[angeleleven]

ITA Excellent observation. Well done. In fact, it may make an interesting thread to compile a list of how many times the pity card has been played and how many privileges were requested to compensate 'extra special grief.'

I'll go a step further and say that I feel GA's suicide attempt was an attempt for pity also. JMO

 

[JBean]

There are many good articles on the net about how cadaver dogs are trained. The error about bandaids and sanitary napkins was stated by a law enforcement person to the press in the Haleigh Cummings case at the time dogs hit on a dumpster. So this erroneous information seems to be "out there".

Nancy Grace has had several dog trainers on her show who explained about how the dogs are trained. It was very interesting.

So there are tracking dogs, cadaver dogs, drug-sniffing dogs, explosives sniffing dogs, etc.

Bottom line on the cadaver dogs is they are trained specifically to detect the chemicals that are part of the decomposition of human tissue after death.

Cadaver dogs DO NOT hit on blood unless the blood is from a DEAD BODY. Normal blood does not have the chemicals in it to alert a cadaver dog.

I will laugh my rear off if they try to use that one in court.

Here is lots of information about cadaver Dogs:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70252&highlight=cadaver
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75458&highlight=cadaver
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71028&highlight=cadaver

 

[LCoastMom]

From transcript:

Q Was your daughter taking money that did not belong to her from others, to your knowledge, in the year leading up to this?

A I'm not answering that.

Q You refuse to answer it?

A Take it any way you want to take it. Refuse it.. I'm not answering it. It's no concern about this lady down here, sitting down here. It's no concern.

Q Did your daughter appear to be short on funds in the year leading up to the disappearance?

MR. CONWAY: If you know.

A I have no knowledge of that, no knowledge. :liar:

Q Did you ever have any discussions with her about -- with your daughter about her need for money or her finances during that year?

A Never discussed it with her. ::liar:

Q Did you ever discuss with her why she would take money that didn't belong to her?

MR. CONWAY: Mr. Mitnik, that assumes that she did. I mean, give him a fair question and he'll answer it, if he can. :liar:

MR. MITNIK: Would you read that question back, please?

(The record was read back as requested.)

MR. CONWAY: You're assuming she took money that didn't belong to her.

BY MR. MITNIK:

Q You can answer.

A I have no knowledge of my daughter's taking any money. :liar:

Q None?

A None :liar:

Q Not from anybody -- any family member?

MR. CONWAY: He just said none, Mr. Mitnik. That's pretty inclusive. :liar:

Q Not from any family member; is that correct?

A That's correct. :liar:

Q Is that your sworn testimony?

A Yep. I have no knowledge of it. :liar:

Q How about using credit cards that didn't belong to her? Any knowledge of that?

A I have no knowledge of that whatsoever. :liar:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

George!! George!! George!!

Haven't you figured out by now they read your LE interviews?? They know what you said about GMa and Cindy and even sweet Caylee's piggy bank!!! :twocents:

 

[rbrnmw2]

--respectfully snipped; emphasis mine

I respectfully disagree. Once you've smelled human decomposition (as have CA & GA), there is no way to mistake it for anything else. It is a unique and haunting odor. I don't believe it can be replicated by rotting pizza, lunchmeat or anything else. GA & CA both knew what it was. It seems their excited utterances are when they are most truthful.

In an Interviews and Interrogations class I took My instructor said that excited utterances are the truest statements made, as the are they are raw emotions

 

[rbrnmw2]

This family has no clue how to tell the truth, IMO. They have told so many lies all this time and they have to know they are lies and know that everyone knows they are lying. My first husband and his family were liars like this, but they never killed anyone or covered up for a killer, they just lied about everything and when called on it would lie some more and get upset if folks did not believe the lies.

The whole A family make me sick and they all need to be in jail.

I have found liars almost always trip themselves up. A lie is elaborate most of the time with so many details too many. They lie to cover the next lie then eventually they forget the first lie's details and end up contradicting the first lie with another lie

 

[Steely Dan]

I think "had someone search" implies Cindy sent someone or was a party to the instruction to look. If she did not initiate that walk in the woods, she would have simply stated "I'm aware", "I heard" or "so and so looked". The fact that she employed the person who looked means he did so on her behalf. Even if she gave a broad directive to look everywhere and anywhere, it was still at her request.

I think her hostility and raving about what does this have to do with this case is because she's scared :censored:less that her statements about that will come back to haunt her. She's trying everything she can possibly think of to avoid those questions including trying to yell over the questions and acting indignant and the victim.

Either she doesn't get or she doesn't understand how those questions fit in. The significance of those questions is that if she had knowledge of the burial site then it couldn't possibly have been done by a nanny.

From what I've read, cadaver dogs do train with human blood, so it is possible that they could alert to that. But were used sanitary napkins and/or human blood found in the trunk? I don't recall having read that.

As for "delayed reaction," if the smell permeated the entire trunk area, then it hardly matters where the dogs hit.

Here's a lot of information on cadaver dogs.

Sometimes silence is also proof. In the A's case, what ever they were thinking came out to the press. The only clues that I remember CA complaining about LE not following up were some wild around the country clues and I don't think they sent anyone to PR. As my memory serves, they followed up on "sightings" around the country until they were sure they had the killer.

If you remember LE talking to KC saying so far, every lead, every address you have taken us to is a lie. If there were more LE wasn't following up on, I believe both KC and CA would have been screaming bloody he$$ and we would clearly have heard about it. Also KC would have told them in the begining... Oh, wait, I gave Mom an address book with ZFG's phone numbers and addresses, lets check on those. I do believe someone one at one of those addresses would have remembered a tall, beautiful 10 living next door.

Even if we were to believe her story about Caylee getting hurt if she told them anything then she would have turned that info over once the body was found. IF it existed and that's a big IF!

There are errors of commission - for example telling a lie. There are also errors of ommission - this refers to everything you dont say or do. I wonder if this is their modus operandi.

I had a co-worker who was nice as could be - I was new at the job. if I asked him something specific, he would tell me. He never offered any additional information about anything - be it office supplies or customer info.

He would never lie - but he would never elaborate. If I didnt ask the question in the right way it was too bad for me. It was more about what he didnt say or never told me that was problematic.

He was a kind of hostile guy. Smug, superior, jealous, resentful.

I would have turned the tables on him and done the same thing to him. :crazy:

I agree that her original terminology is ambiguous but she seemed pretty emphatic in this depo that she had not previously said (or meant) that she'd 'sent' someone - stating that to suggest such would be a 'bare-faced lie'.

I personally feel that her description of having 'had' someone search the woods was said more for effect and emphasis, i.e. her 'team' had been there before LE and had found nothing. I know that it's hard to tell when the A's are giving it straight sometimes, but in this instance I really don't think the A's knew about DC's search until after the event. I think he got a tip from somewhere else and decided to check it out before mentioning it to them.

I think it was LA but I wouldn't be surprised to find out she knew. Maybe GA didn't but it wouldn't surprise me to find out she did.

Cadaver dogs DO NOT hit on blood unless the blood is from a DEAD BODY. Normal blood does not have the chemicals in it to alert a cadaver dog.

I will laugh my rear off if they try to use that one in court.

:thumb: