Mistrial, Hung Jury - Raven Abaroa Murder in the 1st

[terminatrixator]

Just watched Wral's video of the trial scheduling and noticed several things.

Did anybody notice the scar on the back of his head? It runs from the top down about halfway his head right in the middle of his skull.

Right before he stood up, he and Mani shared a smile......literally made me get chills.

When Janet's family got up, he bowed his head lower and furrowed his forehead/brow. He didn't/couldn't look at them.

His eyes.....whew.... his eyes....sunken, glazed, the eyes of a killer. When I look at close-ups of his eyes, I just get a sick/shaky feeling in the pit of my stomach. He is soooooo guilty!!!

Oh My gosh, I just saw the same thing.

When the family & friends got up and left, the forehead furrow and brow caught my attention and I actually took screen shots of it!

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo169/terminatrixator/CpWz_088.gif

I didn't get it. Does he know that Mrs. Christiansen is battling breast cancer? He not only killed his wife, his unborn child, but he's caused so much pain to Janet's family and even his own, and his own son.

He should have accepted the plea, I knew he wouldn't.

This is after he lifts his head before he leaves the courtroom

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo169/terminatrixator/CpWz_091.gif

Escorted out

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo169/terminatrixator/CpWz_092.gif

 

[Madeleine74]

I'll be honest; I'm not comfortable with saying a person "looks guilty" because I think that's a fallacy. I agree someone can look vacant or angry or some other adjective, but for someone to look or be considered "guilty," there should be a correlation to the evidence. I do believe the evidence showed him to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt though, so I agree with the 11 jurors who voted that way.

 

[tarheellvr]

Yes Trix, I too thought the plea was a good one. For what he did, especially considering he took 2 lives...not just 1. Do you think he really thinks he can somehow be found not guilty or do you think this is all a part of his sociopathic "game", or really to avoid Kaiden in a LWP situation?

 

[tarheellvr]

I'll be honest; I'm not comfortable with saying a person "looks guilty" because I think that's a fallacy. I agree someone can look vacant or angry or some other adjective, but for someone to look or be considered "guilty," there should be a correlation to the evidence. I do believe the evidence showed him to be guilty beyond a reasonable doubt though, so I agree with the 11 jurors who voted that way.

I didn't mean his eyes and appearance alone make him look guilty. I just added my sentence at the end. I should have made it a separate paragraph. I've read everything there is to read about the case, have watched and followed the trial, and base my feelings of guilt on evidence and lack there of.

You are 100% right.....the evidence did indeed show him to be guilty. My apologies if I offended you in any way.

 

[terminatrixator]

Yes Trix, I too thought the plea was a good one. For what he did, especially considering he took 2 lives...not just 1. Do you think he really thinks he can somehow be found not guilty or do you think this is all a part of his sociopathic "game", or really to avoid Kaiden in a LWP situation?

I don't know, I am not even sure why I seem to be right so often when it comes to how he thinks. He is a sociopath, so I tend to go against the way I would think or the way I would feel about a subject.

Do I think Raven is human, yes. Do I think he has some genuine feelings, I would say yes. I know he's sad he got caught, I know he's upset he's in jail, I know he's upset that it seems that people are against him, but is he upset that Janet is dead, I would have to say no.

I don't think "Raven looks Guilty". I think Raven looks like a narcissistic sociopath and I believe 100% that he is guilty.

I think he is not certifiable though. He knows right from wrong, but doesn't care. He thinks he can manipulate the system because he has SO MANY times.

I do not know the defense team but I believe they probably wanted him to take the deal and after watching this guy out on the street for five years, and hearing story after story of the real Raven, I didn't think he would take a plea because he feels he can snow people.

I also think his mother would never want him to take a plea because her admitting that her son is a murderer is something she would NEVER do, though I believe fully that she knows he did it. With Karyn Abaroa Bolton, it's about perception and she likes the Ken & Barbie look and she is about how people perceive her. I think she truly thinks if she acts like her son is innocent that's enough. I think her husband, Jim finally came to the realization that he is guilty and he has to live with that knowledge though.

I believe Raven was raised by a sociopath and they dominate everyone in their circle and if they say he isn't guilty long enough people will believe him.

He's gotten away with so much over the years, that he thinks he will eventually get away with this too.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I know next to nothing about child custody cases, but the Christiansen's must be tortured that the living, breathing part of Janet is nearly untouchable to them. I don't pretend to know their wishes in respect to Kaiden. Perhaps they wouldn't want to tear him away from Raven's family since it's the only parents he's really had. But they must want, at the very least more access to him. I'm wondering what it takes to help that case, and weather Raven even bothered to consider that in his plea decision.
Would accepting a plea have put Kaiden at risk of going to the Christiansens, as a guilty sentence surely would?
My guess is he doesn't care. Raven looking out for Raven.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

I've been watching the Young and Cooper trials to try to catch up with the history of this group. Five words.
Three peas in a pod.

 

[Madeleine74]

Hey Justice,

If you find you have any questions about either case, Just The Fax (who has recently posted on this thread) is the bonafide expert for the Young case. I'm extremely knowledgeable about the Cooper case.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

A couple of idiosyncrasies I noticed in all three trials concerning language.

The pronunciation of the word, "during", and the way many peeps answer a question - Most often when explaining something, they start with, "Soooo...".
One way that was really reinforced was a handsome hunk from Australia who testified in the Cooper trial. (He was one of the few husbands still married to his wife who was a friend of Brad's wife).
He had this gorgeous aussie accent, yet as he started to answer questions, here came the "Sooooo..." to begin his explanations.
Is it a regional thing? Just curious. My trivia question for today.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Hey Justice,

If you find you have any questions about either case, Just The Fax (who has recently posted on this thread) is the bonafide expert for the Young case. I'm extremely knowledgeable about the Cooper case.

Thx. What's your opinion of the chances of appeal succeeding? I did watch the arguments, and they said THEN, the answer would come in about three months which has come and gone.

ETA If you begin your answer with, "Soo...", It will just reinforce my observations. haha

 

[Madeleine74]

Thx. What's your opinion of the chances of appeal succeeding? I did watch the arguments, and they said THEN, the answer would come in about three months which has come and gone.

The judges asked some probing questions that made it sound like they didn't think Ward should have been excluded as a "forensic" computer expert (he was allowed to testify as a "network" expert only), and overall it seemed like the definition of "forensic expert" was being tested/questioned by the judges, which I found confusing because they (above anyone else) should know the definition.

So...I have no idea. I could see it going either way.

ETA: Oral arguments were held in April. The earliest I guess a decision could come would be sometime in July, but I suppose it depends on how many cases are ahead of this one.

 

[Madeleine74]

A couple of idiosyncrasies I noticed in all three trials concerning language.

The pronunciation of the word, "during", and the way many peeps answer a question - Most often when explaining something, they start with, "Soooo...".
One way that was really reinforced was a handsome hunk from Australia who testified in the Cooper trial. (He was one of the few husbands still married to his wife who was a friend of Brad's wife).
He had this gorgeous aussie accent, yet as he started to answer questions, here came the "Sooooo..." to begin his explanations.
Is it a regional thing? Just curious. My trivia question for today.

That's Brett Adam you are referring to. He's from the land of Oz (AUS). Super smart guy and interesting to chat with. I think the "Soooooo...." is more of an age thing than a regional thing because I've heard others not in this area begin their sentences the same way.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

The judges asked some probing questions that made it sound like they didn't think Ward should have been excluded as a "forensic" computer expert (he was allowed to testify as a "network" expert only), and overall it seemed like the definition of "forensic expert" was being tested/questioned by the judges, which I found confusing because they (above anyone else) should know the definition.

So...I have no idea. I could see it going either way.

ETA: Oral arguments were held in April. The earliest I guess a decision could come would be sometime in July, but I suppose it depends on how many cases are ahead of this one.

LOL on the, So.."
The one judge in particular was interested. Correct me if I am wrong. The appeal is based on the judge's decision?
I believe they chose three points of contention? I thought the proclamation of Ward as an expert was the weakest, but I can't recall the other points off the top of my head.

The thing that surprised me in the trial was the judge's admission of statements of Nancy's that came in through her friends. But that was not one of their complaints.

 

[Madeleine74]

3 judge appellate panel decides, not just one judge.

Statements of the victim are allowed (exclusion to the hearsay rule) for certain purposes, which the judge explained several times and instructed the jury when he overruled the defense's objections.

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Oh, now I get what you mean.

I meant the one judge of the three did a lot of the questioning. And my second unclear reference to "judge", was Judge Paul Gessnerer. They are claiming the error was his?

I believe all three complaints had to do with the computer, but I'll go back and find out now that it will drive me nuts if I don't.

Madeleine, compare the hearsay rule in the Arias case to the Cooper case if you will. Is it:
A. a matter of digression the judge's part
B. Differing state laws
C. totally different circumstance of the hearsay rule ?

 

[Moxie]

Trix,

You are right about Raven having feelings. I am sure he is sad and very angry that he was caught, that he is in jail, that he is without Kaiden. But I also think he is sad and angry because he doesn't have that insurance money.

IMO, Raven didn't want to be married, he wanted to be free, he wanted full custody of Kaiden and he wanted that $500K in insurance money to take off his financial pressures.

Maybe he isn't as smart as we had thought. Based on the evidence, I believe he committed murder, and for what? He didn't get anything he wanted. Raven is not free, he does not have Kaiden, he has no money and he is looking at the possibility of LWOP in prison. What a waste. Of Janet's life and of Raven's. And the collateral damage is devastating.

I don't know, I am not even sure why I seem to be right so often when it comes to how he thinks. He is a sociopath, so I tend to go against the way I would think or the way I would feel about a subject.

Do I think Raven is human, yes. Do I think he has some genuine feelings, I would say yes. I know he's sad he got caught, I know he's upset he's in jail, I know he's upset that it seems that people are against him, but is he upset that Janet is dead, I would have to say no.

I don't think "Raven looks Guilty". I think Raven looks like a narcissistic sociopath and I believe 100% that he is guilty.

I think he is not certifiable though. He knows right from wrong, but doesn't care. He thinks he can manipulate the system because he has SO MANY times.

I do not know the defense team but I believe they probably wanted him to take the deal and after watching this guy out on the street for five years, and hearing story after story of the real Raven, I didn't think he would take a plea because he feels he can snow people.

I also think his mother would never want him to take a plea because her admitting that her son is a murderer is something she would NEVER do, though I believe fully that she knows he did it. With Karyn Abaroa Bolton, it's about perception and she likes the Ken & Barbie look and she is about how people perceive her. I think she truly thinks if she acts like her son is innocent that's enough. I think her husband, Jim finally came to the realization that he is guilty and he has to live with that knowledge though.

I believe Raven was raised by a sociopath and they dominate everyone in their circle and if they say he isn't guilty long enough people will believe him.

He's gotten away with so much over the years, that he thinks he will eventually get away with this too.

 

[terminatrixator]

Trix,

You are right about Raven having feelings. I am sure he is sad and very angry that he was caught, that he is in jail, that he is without Kaiden. But I also think he is sad and angry because he doesn't have that insurance money.

IMO, Raven didn't want to be married, he wanted to be free, he wanted full custody of Kaiden and he wanted that $500K in insurance money to take off his financial pressures.

Maybe he isn't as smart as we had thought. Based on the evidence, I believe he committed murder, and for what? He didn't get anything he wanted. Raven is not free, he does not have Kaiden, he has no money and he is looking at the possibility of LWOP in prison. What a waste. Of Janet's life and of Raven's. And the collateral damage is devastating.

You took the words out of my mouth. I just saw Tamara Gibb's post "High Price Trial: Raven Abaroa's first trial cost NC taxpayers a whopping $211,344, according to state estimate of daily court costs for 34-day trial, including jury selection. #ABC11"

Basically divorce wasn't an option to him, he wanted to be single, he was afraid of losing custody of Kaiden, he didn't want to lose his PRECIOUS VX, his toys, he needed money to pay off the embezzlement, which still ticks me off, he had to pay back $10k but he made so much more than that, and he wanted that $500k life insurance policy. (I think Janet being pregnant and having a tubal pregnancy before is why he couldn't take out the 1 Million like he had planned to) . It's like he liked the idea of Mommy Shopping but he would never make a good father or a husband. A good Father doesn't kill their pregnant Wife.

If he is found not guilty by the next set of jurors, some day his son will realize he did it, just like Vanessa did, just like many of the people that were in Raven's life that thought he could be innocent, has finally started to realize he is guilty and if he ends up free, he'll be surrounded by a bunch of people that know he's guilty and know he got away with it.

I am to the point, I don't believe there is anyone in his life that truly believes with all their heart and soul that Raven is innocent. He did it, and hopefully the next set of 12 finds him guilty so everyone can move on with their life and there will be no more women hurt by the actions of this one man.

 

[Just the Fax]

Alford plea and he accepts 2nd degree and 20 years?

I would not be surprised, considering the cost of a retrial and Janet's family is emotionally spent. If offered, Raven would be a fool not to take it.

Yep, Raven you are even dumber than you look.

 

[guera]

Trix,

You are right about Raven having feelings. I am sure he is sad and very angry that he was caught, that he is in jail, that he is without Kaiden. But I also think he is sad and angry because he doesn't have that insurance money.

IMO, Raven didn't want to be married, he wanted to be free, he wanted full custody of Kaiden and he wanted that $500K in insurance money to take off his financial pressures.

Maybe he isn't as smart as we had thought. Based on the evidence, I believe he committed murder, and for what? He didn't get anything he wanted. Raven is not free, he does not have Kaiden, he has no money and he is looking at the possibility of LWOP in prison. What a waste. Of Janet's life and of Raven's. And the collateral damage is devastating.

I think this hits the nail on the head, Moxie - I think Raven has feelings, but only as they pertain to himself. He's sad and angry that HE got caught, and mad that HE's in jail, and mad that HE doesn't have Kaiden. But I think his ability to empathize is nonexistent - he doesn't feel bad for committing the murder (IMO, he feels like Janet made him do it), he doesn't feel bad that Kaiden isn't being raised without a father. It's all about him - this seems to be how these narcissistic sociopaths work. And so I think he can cry real tears when the mistrial was declared, because HE was sad that HE didn't get out of jail. When he heard about Kaiden, he teared up because HE doesn't get to have his son/mini-me around. There is no empathy there, and he doesn't take into account other people's feelings - which is why he could kill his wife. He doesn't worry about how it would make her feel, or the damage to her family and his family. He was mad that she was making things more difficult, and so he got rid of her in a way that was supposed to benefit him the most.

It's disgusting. And agreed - the collateral damage is COLOSSAL. So many lives have been scarred by this, so many people devastated beyond belief. It's horrible.

 

[Madeleine74]

You took the words out of my mouth. I just saw Tamara Gibb's post "High Price Trial: Raven Abaroa's first trial cost NC taxpayers a whopping $211,344, according to state estimate of daily court costs for 34-day trial, including jury selection. #ABC11"

A bargain compared to the $1.5M cost so far for the Arias case and they're still not done as they are going to retry the penalty phase. The total will be up to $2M by the time they are done.

Cooper case was about $340K.

Don't know cost of Young case but 2 trials and years of investigation.