Is Raven a FLIGHT RISK?

[Moxie]

Are you kidding? Even if it was possible, what about Kaiden????

If this rumor is true, this is BIG, BIG news. And maybe LE should hear about it.

I agree!

 

[Jenifred]

Alright Moxie--if he's doing this, I've just joined the "he's going to run" camp.

Seriously, how stupid do the Abaroas believe that non-mormons can be--he's getting ready to serve another mission even though he's already got a kid? HELLO!! IS THIS THING ON??

Something's got to be done quickly about this bird--he needs his feathers clipped.

 

[juliagoulia]

I've checked with the LDS Church Educational System. The only type of mission you can serve after you have married and had children is as an older married COUPLE. There is no missionary program for single fathers. There is not even a mission where he could be a volunteer. Nothing is more important to the LDS church than the FAMILY. They would not accept a volunteer, single parent missionary because that would take time away from his most important responsibility--KAIDEN.

This is crazy...and if it is even slightly true, I hope LE is nearby.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

Can you get kicked out of the mormon church? And if you can, wouldn't cheating on your wife and committing felonies (not misdemeanors) be cause to be kicked out? or at the very least, not protecting and/or supporting a felon?

 

[Jenifred]

Can you get kicked out of the mormon church? And if you can, wouldn't cheating on your wife and committing felonies (not misdemeanors) be cause to be kicked out? or at the very least, not protecting and/or supporting a felon?

You can get excommunicated from the Mormon church. But first you have to confess your sins to the proper church authority. So, Raven would have to go tell his bishop that he had multiple affairs, he stole money from his former employer, lied on various occasions to church authorities, if he's been drinking, etc. Then this starts off a chain of events, none of which I'm that familiar with (maybe NCBanker could explain--if people really want to know) or that I would feel comfortable explaining about (because I can't explain it right).

But the key here is that Raven would have to go to the bishop and tell him face to face what he had done--everything, no skimping on the truth (if he were truly repentant). And I don't see Raven ever wanting to admit that he's done something wrong. So, Raven can act as spiritual as he wants, but if he were really sorry for the obvious things he's done--lying, stealing, cheating--he'd go to his bishop, like a real man would, and let it all out.

But Raven's demonstrated that he can't be a real man, but would rather be a lying sack of trash and pretend to be all the things that he's not. He'll get his in the end.

 

[juliagoulia]

If the Bishop or Stake President were aware of the various affairs (i.e. Janet or someone else involved approaches them), they could convene a church court and invite him to be part of it. It is always best that the offender confesses on their own, but it doesn't have to work that way. If you have taken your temple covenants (and I think he had), and THEN have affairs, that is very serious and usually results in excommunication. The stealing may lead to being disfellowshipped (you're still a member but cannot participate in certain church activities), but I doubt that would lead to excommunication.

In both cases--excommunication and disfellowshipment--it is possible to come back to full standing in the church. But it is a very humbling, difficult process. I somehow don't think Raven has the character to do it.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

If the Bishop or Stake President were aware of the various affairs (i.e. Janet or someone else involved approaches them), they could convene a church court and invite him to be part of it. It is always best that the offender confesses on their own, but it doesn't have to work that way. If you have taken your temple covenants (and I think he had), and THEN have affairs, that is very serious and usually results in excommunication. The stealing may lead to being disfellowshipped (you're still a member but cannot participate in certain church activities), but I doubt that would lead to excommunication.

In both cases--excommunication and disfellowshipment--it is possible to come back to full standing in the church. But it is a very humbling, difficult process. I somehow don't think Raven has the character to do it.

This is actually interesting to me. From what you say, if you have affairs you get excommunicated but affairs aren't against the law. If you embezzle, you probably don't get excommunicated, but it's against the law and you are a felon with few rights. That seems weird. If you have to admit what you did wrong to a Bishop, you're right, I doubt raven would admit to anything that doesn't make him look good. And the person that could tell the Bishop about raven has been murdered....seems convenient. I wonder if this is a possible motive to raven. If he thought Janet was talking (maybe to the home teachers that night) and he thought he would be kicked out of his church....hmmmm!:waitasec:

 

[terminatrixator]

This is actually interesting to me. From what you say, if you have affairs you get excommunicated but affairs aren't against the law. If you embezzle, you probably don't get excommunicated, but it's against the law and you are a felon with few rights. That seems weird. If you have to admit what you did wrong to a Bishop, you're right, I doubt raven would admit to anything that doesn't make him look good. And the person that could tell the Bishop about raven has been murdered....seems convenient. I wonder if this is a possible motive to raven. If he thought Janet was talking (maybe to the home teachers that night) and he thought he would be kicked out of his church....hmmmm!:waitasec:

Not sure if The Raven would worry so much about the hometeachers knowing, because he could fast talk himself out of that, or I bet he could try to figure out a way to handle that.

An ex-communication would bug him, but not because of being kicked out of the Church, but the loss of any cash-flow or help he was receiving from the Church, would uspet The Raven.

Top it off with knowing he will have less money to play with after finding out Janet was pregnant, then in The Raven's twisted mind, along with knowing he was up on embezzlement charges and trying to find ways to get out of that, along with if he was again in the cheating mood, along with any insurance on Janet.....my head is spinning thinking about all the possibilities that are out there that we don't know yet.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

An ex-communication would bug him, but not because of being kicked out of the Church, but the loss of any cash-flow or help he was receiving from the Church, would uspet The Raven.

Top it off with knowing he will have less money to play with after finding out Janet was pregnant, then in The Raven's twisted mind, along with knowing he was up on embezzlement charges and trying to find ways to get out of that, along with if he was again in the cheating mood, along with any insurance on Janet.....my head is spinning thinking about all the possibilities that are out there that we don't know yet.

Add to that the possibility that there's someone specific he's been looking for on all of these reunion websites of his.

Eww, you brought up a very interesting idea - was Raven concerned with how the church might view him? Would that be enough of a motive if Janet was threatening (for lack of a better word) to go to the Bishop. This really intrigues me especially given Raven's new found "spirituality". Perhaps he was even trying to get further into the Church, and Janet, knowing about all of his "issues", made him feel like he was a hypocrite. I don't even mean that Janet did or would do that on purpose. But maybe all of Raven's indiscretions were coming up in conversations regarding Raven and his home schooling, etc., and like we said a long time ago, Raven couldn't fool himself into thinking that he was "worthy" as long as Janet was around.

Anyway, I know it seems far-fetched to think that someone would murder his wife so that others that he knows much less intimately wouldn't think badly of him. But think about it - we've ALL surely seen this kind of thing in motion. How many of us have witnessed a family member lash out at us because they're in a bad mood due to something that happened with someone else? How many of us have had a loved one treat us badly and then "put on a happy face" when someone else comes along. I think that this has happened to everyone, and although it's not nearly as severe as murder, I think that they are manifestations of the same behavior. In a manic mind, that natural tendency might become twisted into something much more severe.

 

[lauriej]

wow............i seem to have missed this entire page on this topic.............

.......each and every one of you ( julia, jersey, trix, eww, jenn etc...) bring SUCH a prospective to this thread.........

..i had no idea as to the ramifications raven was facing ----being excomminicated from the church! having to 'fess up" ! ( to his bishop no less----------------as IF raven would EVER!)

..i had janet---the new baby---his lifestyle---$$$$'s etc down as possible motives-------------but THIS---------and raven being the 'momma's boy/baby' that he is, only adds to motive------------i can see him faking out family and friends, but NOT wanting to take on the church and bishop -----he's so all about "saving face"------raven's ( primarily ).

..does anyone know if raven has been attending ( regularly or not ) church / church activities while in utah ?

 

[terminatrixator]

I heard he was going to Church regularly. Gotta get him some religion and look good in his community.

He must think Church is really going to cure him, look at BTK.

 

[SouthEastSleuth]

I may certainly be in the minority in this opinion – but I say, LET HIM RUN.

If Raven took off today, then it says one thing very clearly – he’s running because of guilt, pure and simple.

So what could cause him to take off?

1) LE officially names him a POI

2) He gets wind of an impending arrest.

At this point Raven seems to be living life to the fullest – working (a little), childcare taken care of, dating again, having recreational fun, taking trips at will…basically moving on with his life with very few, if any, concerns, etc. Does he even wonder about the case anymore? Does he have sleepless nights, wondering what LE is up to, if we will in fact be arrested? Does he go to sleep each night, thinking, "I did it, I’ve gotten away with it…"? Does he squirm a little when he hears a siren, sees a police car in his neighborhood or in his rearview mirror? Or, does he simply not care anymore, one way or another?

So what would happen if LE named Raven a POI?

Pressure. If nothing else, Raven would officially know that the case is still being investigated, and with a primary focus: Raven. Sure, he knows from these boards, etc., that many, if not most people think he’s the perpetrator. But, for him to be PUBLICLY named as a POI, BY DURHAM POLICE, that’s a whole different ballgame. Gloves would be off as far as any possible media involvement; it would certainly send a message to any others possibly in harm’s way; Raven would clearly know, officially and publicly that LE is looking at him, and hard; and perhaps most importantly, it may encourage someone to come forward who might have information about Raven, the murder, etc….

So how would he react? Several scenarios come to mind –

- Do nothing. Carry on his routine, just as before, and basically shrug off any suggestions of his guilt, regardless of his being named THE official suspect.

- Come out fighting. Attacking LE, calling his lawyer, demanding investigations, etc. Basically, start screaming his innocence and hounding LE to look harder into the case. (Interestingly enough, the same scenario one would have expected an INNOCENT person to be doing from day one.)

- Run. And this, to me anyway, would frankly be ideal. Running accomplishes one thing right away - practically admitting guilt, otherwise, why run? Now sure, if Raven takes off, that’s a different set of complications, to be sure. But so what? Months have passed at this point. Even if it took many more months to track him down, extradite him, what have you, is that really all that big of a deal? I mean the end result is – ultimately he would be in custody, sooner or later. Would it be that difficult to track him down? Who knows. Someone like Raven seems to like his comforts, and one would think that life on the run would certainly lack in comforts and ease of living. And, is it possible for an APB, of sorts anyway, to be issued in a case like this when someone is wanting for questioning and has taken off? My guess is, it would, at minimum, certainly be a probation violation, which could then be used to issue a warrant. And sure, there’s the possibility of Raven leaving the country. But again, it would just seem a matter to time, even then, before he’s caught. I could certainly be wrong, but I just find it hard to imagine Raven living a life on the run – he barely works now, so finding some menial job with which to support himself just seems so unlikely….his Mom could certainly assist, financially and otherwise, but wouldn’t that be risky on her part, especially if LE starting watching HER, her movements, activities, etc?

I don’t know. It would certainly complicate things on some levels, but I still think Raven running would not be the end of the story – in some ways, it might even provide the break needed to ultimately arrest him.

IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."

Then the Bird has choices to make – sit on his perch quietly, squawk as loudly as he can, or test his wings and fly.

 

[Moxie]

I may certainly be in the minority in this opinion – but I say, LET HIM RUN.

If Raven took off today, then it says one thing very clearly – he’s running because of guilt, pure and simple.

So what could cause him to take off?

1) LE officially names him a POI

2) He gets wind of an impending arrest.

At this point Raven seems to be living life to the fullest – working (a little), childcare taken care of, dating again, having recreational fun, taking trips at will…basically moving on with his life with very few, if any, concerns, etc. Does he even wonder about the case anymore? Does he have sleepless nights, wondering what LE is up to, if we will in fact be arrested? Does he go to sleep each night, thinking, "I did it, I’ve gotten away with it…"? Does he squirm a little when he hears a siren, sees a police car in his neighborhood or in his rearview mirror? Or, does he simply not care anymore, one way or another?

So what would happen if LE named Raven a POI?

Pressure. If nothing else, Raven would officially know that the case is still being investigated, and with a primary focus: Raven. Sure, he knows from these boards, etc., that many, if not most people think he’s the perpetrator. But, for him to be PUBLICLY named as a POI, BY DURHAM POLICE, that’s a whole different ballgame. Gloves would be off as far as any possible media involvement; it would certainly send a message to any others possibly in harm’s way; Raven would clearly know, officially and publicly that LE is looking at him, and hard; and perhaps most importantly, it may encourage someone to come forward who might have information about Raven, the murder, etc….

So how would he react? Several scenarios come to mind –

- Do nothing. Carry on his routine, just as before, and basically shrug off any suggestions of his guilt, regardless of his being named THE official suspect.

- Come out fighting. Attacking LE, calling his lawyer, demanding investigations, etc. Basically, start screaming his innocence and hounding LE to look harder into the case. (Interestingly enough, the same scenario one would have expected an INNOCENT person to be doing from day one.)

- Run. And this, to me anyway, would frankly be ideal. Running accomplishes one thing right away - practically admitting guilt, otherwise, why run? Now sure, if Raven takes off, that’s a different set of complications, to be sure. But so what? Months have passed at this point. Even if it took many more months to track him down, extradite him, what have you, is that really all that big of a deal? I mean the end result is – ultimately he would be in custody, sooner or later. Would it be that difficult to track him down? Who knows. Someone like Raven seems to like his comforts, and one would think that life on the run would certainly lack in comforts and ease of living. And, is it possible for an APB, of sorts anyway, to be issued in a case like this when someone is wanting for questioning and has taken off? My guess is, it would, at minimum, certainly be a probation violation, which could then be used to issue a warrant. And sure, there’s the possibility of Raven leaving the country. But again, it would just seem a matter to time, even then, before he’s caught. I could certainly be wrong, but I just find it hard to imagine Raven living a life on the run – he barely works now, so finding some menial job with which to support himself just seems so unlikely….his Mom could certainly assist, financially and otherwise, but wouldn’t that be risky on her part, especially if LE starting watching HER, her movements, activities, etc?

I don’t know. It would certainly complicate things on some levels, but I still think Raven running would not be the end of the story – in some ways, it might even provide the break needed to ultimately arrest him.

IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."

Then the Bird has choices to make – sit on his perch quietly, squawk as loudly as he can, or test his wings and fly.

SES,

I truly don't think he cares. I believe he feels he has gotten away with it. He won't run. He has no need to. No pressure on him. He is happy. He got what he wanted - no wife and no responsibilities.

Moxie

 

[terminatrixator]

For some odd reason I think if Raven was publicly named POI or Suspect, nothing would change. He would still go out, still date, still lie and deny. I think he'd shrug it off. I don't think he has restless nights, days or in between. I think Raven lives in his own world, with no cares.

He may get ticked if someone cuts him off when he's driving, or if someone puts a shopping cart too close to his car (that would probably be me by the way ha) or if his Social Security Check doesn't come on time, but with his personality, I don't think it would bug him one way or the other, unless a camera was in his face and he realized he looks BLOATED and BALD on TV.

I hope something breaks soon though, but I am not going anywhere, Dream Police they live inside of my head.....

 

[juliagoulia]

Part of me thinks he may even enjoy the publicity of being named a POI. It might get him a few more sympathetic looks from his friends and new girlfriend. From what we know of his mother, she would jump at the chance to be on TV and spout her son's innocence to the world "The poor thing is just being persecuted!" :sick:

 

[ewwwinteresting]

IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."

:clap: :clap:

 

[momx3]

I heard that Raven is out apartment shopping. Looks like he won't be living with mommy for to much longer.

 

[terminatrixator]

Guess Social Security and Government aid along with his 2 day a week bike-shop boy job s doing well for The Raven. I'm sure he'll get an apartment, tell his friends it's a condo that he owns. You know he has to be "larger than life" but he only looks that way on TV.


He obviously needs a bachelor pad to take his women, monogomy is not one Raven's strong suits.

 

[Jenifred]

I'm sure Raven won't be paying for the apartment either. Section 8 is available and he can pay nearly nothing for his apartment.

Anyone know if Kaiden will be living with him?

 

[lauriej]

Part of me thinks he may even enjoy the publicity of being named a POI. It might get him a few more sympathetic looks from his friends and new girlfriend. From what we know of his mother, she would jump at the chance to be on TV and spout her son's innocence to the world "The poor thing is just being persecuted!" :sick:

..perhaps raven's mom will become email buddies with jackie p. during raven's TRIAL, and they can trade delusions with one another..........

..if raven IS thinking that he's gotten away with anything b/c he's not YET been named a POI.............news flash..........neither has anyone else............

..eenie meenie ............who do you think LE has their sights on ? oh right--------------the one and only---------the 'ever-so-balding-one'........( and i'm not talking about the eagle.)

.."be afraid raven--------------be very afraid-------------they're comin' to get you......"
..oh..............and have a nice day.