MOTIVE - IF Raven, then why?

[ewwwinteresting]

. janet is after all paying the bills....................he's going to lose janet...kaiden...credibility, self-esteem, a place to live...(omg! the VX???)

:laugh: omg! the VX???

Don't forget the Ducati and all the gear, the mountain bikes, the Acura, the Durango and all his other "toys"! Can you imagine...Raven left with no materialistic items, no career or someone to support him, and having to pay child support for one (maybe two) children?

 

[Jenifred]

(remember the rumors of how he acted when she found out she was pregnant the other two times)?

............wow..........i don't recall those rumours....

On one of the discussions, gm posted a list of things Raven had said/done once he found out Janet was pregnant. Although she was asked to delete a couple of them by someone (a family member? or her source?)

I just went through about 8 pages of her posts (she's got lots), and I can't find it. Maybe it was removed all together.

 

[juliagoulia]

:laugh: omg! the VX???

Don't forget the Ducati and all the gear, the mountain bikes, the Acura, the Durango and all his other "toys"! Can you imagine...Raven left with no materialistic items, no career or someone to support him, and having to pay child support for one (maybe two) children?

I agree that Janet was the one who was fed up. Maybe SHE pawned something of HIS to pay a bill? Any of his precious toys--I can see that setting him off. They took the checkbook, maybe the amount of a check matched the the pawn ticket stub.

I realize I'm pulling this out of thin air, but what else can we do after two months and still not a word...

 

[lauriej]

I agree that Janet was the one who was fed up. Maybe SHE pawned something of HIS to pay a bill? Any of his precious toys--I can see that setting him off. They took the checkbook, maybe the amount of a check matched the the pawn ticket stub.

I realize I'm pulling this out of thin air, but what else can we do after two months and still not a word...

...oh yeah, after the way raven was throwing "brand names " around on the christmas video...he definitely likes to own the best.............and make sure everyone is aware of it...

..the pawn ticket..
...it always had me wondering why the pawn ticket was in the durango, ( stated on the warrant that they found it there...)
... why was it hidden in plain sight ?
...sure would be good to know WHAT had been pawned....

...maybe janet came across it..........."what IS this raven...........???? you pawned my ________________???????

...after 2 months.......it's wonderful to see that we're not giving up............and seeing this through...there WILL be an arrest....there WILL be a trial.....and we'll be here for the duration...

...i'm all for giving LE the time they need to build their case......but i'm starting to get to the point that i think they should be giving some sort of statement to the public by now............don't the citizens of durham want to know what's going on ? don't they have a right to know ?

...doesn't LE have some accountability to the people they serve ? they haven't even updated their own web site since april 2,2005...
http://www.durhampolice.com/

...i don't live in durham NC, but what about the people who live on ferrand drive ? in the neighbourhood ,where a brutal stabbing took place ? if i were one of those people , i'd still be terribly frightened, ...no news...no statements by LE...no arrest............

...i'm losing faith in the durham LE...........what ARE they doing to resolve this ( very un-common tragic murder, ( according to their own stats....)
... everything? something? nothing ? they 're at a loss? they're on the verge of an arrest? surely they have a PR dept....or person..........

...didn't g/m have the email address early on, of the lead detective on the case?does anyone have that ?

...the silence from LE is frustrating...........

 

[ewwwinteresting]

...didn't g/m have the email address early on, of the lead detective on the case?does anyone have that ?

...the silence from LE is frustrating...........

Here it is:

Tips can be emailed directly to Detective Bennie Bradley:

[email protected]

If anyone has a tip that needs to be passed along to LE and does not feel comfortable emailing directly, just pm me and I'll help pass the information along confidentially.

But, it is best if you have information to contact the detective directly yourself.
:blowkiss:

 

[lauriej]

................thank you.......

...and by the way..........that was quick!

...i hate to admit i spent quite a while looking around for it.........
...on the other hand.................this forum gets bigger by the day..................and that 's a GOOD thing...

 

[ewwwinteresting]

..maybe janet came across it..........."what IS this raven...........???? you pawned my ________________???????

or as julia pointed out: Raven stating "what IS this Janet??? you pawned my _____________??? and then went balistic!

...after 2 months.......it's wonderful to see that we're not giving up............and seeing this through...there WILL be an arrest....there WILL be a trial.....and we'll be here for the duration...

:clap: for us!

...i'm all for giving LE the time they need to build their case......but i'm starting to get to the point that i think they should be giving some sort of statement to the public by now............don't the citizens of durham want to know what's going on ? don't they have a right to know ?

If the public doesn't demand it, they aren't going to give it!

...i don't live in durham NC, but what about the people who live on ferrand drive ? in the neighbourhood ,where a brutal stabbing took place ? if i were one of those people , i'd still be terribly frightened, ...no news...no statements by LE...no arrest............

I think the major problem is that most of the durham citizens don't even know about it. We have one poster here that lives close to the neighborhood and she found out about this two months later on this site. It is so sad!

...the silence from LE is frustrating...........

and alarming.

 

[ewwwinteresting]

................thank you.......

...and by the way..........that was quick!

...i hate to admit i spent quite a while looking around for it.........
...on the other hand.................this forum gets bigger by the day..................and that 's a GOOD thing...

You go get him, girl Maybe you should send a cake, cookies or chocolate with your request:blowkiss:

 

[Jenifred]

I agree that Janet was the one who was fed up. Maybe SHE pawned something of HIS to pay a bill? Any of his precious toys--I can see that setting him off. They took the checkbook, maybe the amount of a check matched the the pawn ticket stub.

I realize I'm pulling this out of thin air, but what else can we do after two months and still not a word...

Hasn't Raven said in one of his postings that the Durango was the "family" car? You've got me thinking, julia, that maybe Janet did pawn something of Raven's. It sounds pretty reasonable that something like that could have set him off. Never thought of it that way.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

What bothers me the most about the pawn ticket is this:

Raven liked expensive things and brand names. He mentioned REI as the source of his Christmas underwear. Did Raven regularly visit pawn shops, either to buy OR to sell? How did he come across this pawn shop - what was the occassion that caused him to seek it out in the first place? I just can't see Raven dealing with pawn shops unless there was a reason. Was the financial stress THAT bad? Why not just sell whatever it was on e-bay? Maybe whatever it was was so important to him that he wanted to get it back at a later time. That indicates that either he wanted to get a sum of money that couldn't be tracked, (although that seems unlikely since the ticket was in his car), or he really, really needed some cash. (Things perhaps were really bad or perhaps Janet was in control of the finances, and had tightened the belt significantly in order to try to get above water - many scenarios are possible.)

In any case, could Raven have sought out this pawn shop to BUY something at first? What do pawn shops typically sell? Jewelry, guns, knives (we know he liked to collect - maybe that was his initial connection to the shop), electronics equipment, etc. I don't know all of the common items as around here, pawn shops are very shady, and I make it a policy not to go into them.

But here is some pure speculation ... what if Raven had gone to the pawn shop to buy a gun? Maybe he thought it would be an easy buy - maybe asked the guy at the counter some questions, and after realizing that he couldn't buy one without paperwork or a waiting period, he decided to "sell" an item instead. Is it possible that Raven not only committed this crime but planned it, and had intended to get himself a gun? Perhaps he brought an item along to the shop to make it look like he was just making conversation during the transaction so as not to make himself stand out too much by asking too many questions about firearms? You know, he says ... "I want to sell this bracelet (or television or buck knife, etc.)", and while the guy is writing up the slip, Raven says "Wow, what a cool gun ... what kind is it? Oh yeah ... is there a firing range around here? Cool ... how much is it? Wow, if I buy it, can I take it today ...?", etc.

Sorry for the babbling ... I'm kind of formulating these ideas as I type. In any case, what is the date on the pawn ticket again? Is it mentioned?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I also wonder if it is something that might have been stolen. Did he have a piece of stolen merchandise that he sold? Or is it possible that he knew that the police were going to be at his home soon so he knew that he had to get rid of any questionable items before then? (Although this also seems unlikely due to the ticket being in the car - whatever it was, it seems quite possible that Raven had intended to go back later to pick the item back up.)

 

[ewwwinteresting]

I also wonder if it is something that might have been stolen. Did he have a piece of stolen merchandise that he sold? Or is it possible that he knew that the police were going to be at his home soon so he knew that he had to get rid of any questionable items before then? (Although this also seems unlikely due to the ticket being in the car - whatever it was, it seems quite possible that Raven had intended to go back later to pick the item back up.)

Ewww interesting JG Good concept. Ok, we have two more possibilities regarding the pawn ticket:

1. Janet pawned something of Raven's. I can see her being fed up and doing this to show him enough was enough. Look, we need money. I am going to start pawning your stuff (since you are not selling it) and if you get a job and start supporting your family, then you can go buy it back. Your precious material item is not gone forever unless you do nothing to retreive it.

or

2. Raven was selling stolen merchandise on ebay. Then he was caught and arrested. He had stolen merchandise hidden that LE didn't find (maybe in a storage facility, storage sheds out back, attic, garage, etc.) and knew he couldn't sell it on ebay without getting caught so he started pawning the items.

 

[lauriej]

I also wonder if it is something that might have been stolen. Did he have a piece of stolen merchandise that he sold? Or is it possible that he knew that the police were going to be at his home soon so he knew that he had to get rid of any questionable items before then? (Although this also seems unlikely due to the ticket being in the car - whatever it was, it seems quite possible that Raven had intended to go back later to pick the item back up.)

...there isn't a date on the pawn ticket...

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=12;w=800
...just that is is yellow.........the # on the ticket...

...Or is it possible that he knew that the police were going to be at his home soon so he knew that he had to get rid of any questionable items before then?

...i think you're onto something there JG...i can see him pawning those 'last few items hanging around from the eurosport embezzlement'........

...as for the pawn ticket being in the durango, and recovered by LE..
...criminals don't think the way that 'we do'......
...he may have thought...ok...they'll check the house..........ask for my alibi...interview friends/neighbours/family.....etc........but he never thought that they would go over the durango..........( and is kicking himself for leaving that pawn ticket in the glove box ?)

...or................he left both the ticket and the knife, (that was also found in the durango,) there on purpose, knowing he could explain both away no problem.............thinking LE would test the knife.....see it was NOT the murder weapon........and clear him.......have a perfectly innocent explanation ready re: the pawn ticket, and clear him.....

...and back to the durango............it's still very odd to me that that one vehicle was the only one mentioned in LE's report........( and in great detail.......where it was parked, colour, VIN#...) , and yet NO mention of the VX...acura...ducati motorcycle...

...i hope LE didn't take his word that he was in the durango that night.....

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

......as for the pawn ticket being in the durango, and recovered by LE..
...criminals don't think the way that 'we do'......
...he may have thought...ok...they'll check the house..........ask for my alibi...interview friends/neighbours/family.....etc........but he never thought that they would go over the durango..........( and is kicking himself for leaving that pawn ticket in the glove box ?)

Especially considering that only ONE vehicle seems to have been searched. Maybe the other cars were deliberately placed elsewhere, (including a vehicle that may have been used after the crime), and so he thought that the "smoking gun" was taken care of when he moved the other cars, forgetting completely about the pawn ticket in the Durango.

 

[icare]

Especially considering that only ONE vehicle seems to have been searched. Maybe the other cars were deliberately placed elsewhere, (including a vehicle that may have been used after the crime), and so he thought that the "smoking gun" was taken care of when he moved the other
cars, forgetting completely about the pawn ticket in the Durango.

There was blood in the Durango. From what I understand form a very close source, Raven says that after he found Janet, he had to go to the car to get the cell phone to call 911. That is why there is blood by the door and in the car.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

There was blood in the Durango. From what I understand form a very close source, Raven says that after he found Janet, he had to go to the car to get the cell phone to call 911. That is why there is blood by the door and in the car.

I knew that they swabbed the vehicle but I never heard whether or not it turned out to be blood. Still, where were the other vehicles?

 

[ewwwinteresting]

There was blood in the Durango. From what I understand form a very close source, Raven says that after he found Janet, he had to go to the car to get the cell phone to call 911. That is why there is blood by the door and in the car.

Thanks icare! What else can you tell us about the crime scene? Anything? Does your very close source (after talking to Raven) have a different possible scenerio of what happened that night...I'm trying to find something...anything that says it was somebody else!

 

[lauriej]

There was blood in the Durango. From what I understand form a very close source, Raven says that after he found Janet, he had to go to the car to get the cell phone to call 911. That is why there is blood by the door and in the car.

...it sounds like the cell phone was the only phone they had.........(and not unusual, many people don't have a land line anymore...)

...but............he comes home.........at approx. 11 p.m...is in for the night.........'kisses kaiden goodnite', as he has said.....................and yet, leaves the cell phone out in the car ?

...i don't have a cell phone.......( ok, we have an 'emergency ' one that my youngest takes with her to the park etc so i can reach her.....)

...but of course i know tons of people that have them............ and they ALWAYS have them within reach...seriously within reach..in their hand, pocket, purse.....or maybe on the charger( at which time they break out into a sweat because their cell is out of comission for a bit..)

...who would leave it out in the car for the night ?i don't buy that.....

 

[ewwwinteresting]

...who would leave it out in the car for the night ?i don't buy that.....

I'm not buying into that either right now AND it was confirmed that both Raven and Janet had a cell phone. IF he did leave it in the car, then why not use Janet's?

 

[lauriej]

I'm not buying into that either right now AND it was confirmed that both Raven and Janet had a cell phone. IF he did leave it in the car, then why not use Janet's?

...and if he did run back out to the car.......did he take kaiden with him ? did kaiden's clothes have blood on them too? or did he leave kaiden inside where there was quite possibly a murderer still hiding ?

...i don't believe that he did take kaiden , because he knew he wasn't in any danger...
... and if he did go outside to make the call.............it was because he couldn't stand to look at what he'd done inside ....
...or..........he had gotten some blood on the door of the durango earlier.......... and so was recreating that again to account for it....

...who knows....................we need a break in this case to keep us from going around in circles....