MISTRIAL - Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis #5

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That's an easy answer, first of all, you may be the only one here that thinks SM sent that picture, everything I have seen is that most agree TM sent those photos. I suppose SM also sent the text are you ready to meet the Mrs? As to why SM would prefer to call a nice looking twenty year old over his frumpy wife....
So, we are totally disregarding everything said during the trial? That could be a bit of our problem.

Heather and SM had broken up, no? Do you suppose he may have--at some point--told "a nice looking twenty year old" that it was over? Do you suppose he ever mentioned his children and marriage vows with his frumpy wife?

Regarding the text: are you ready to meet the Mrs? She will hopefully have her own trial.
 
Hiding evidence after a crime is not evidence that the crime included a "lure". It's just evidence that something is being hidden. This is common behavior of persons who commit crimes.

And yes, exactly, it wasn't until someone decided to harm Heather that things became criminal, as far as we know. The "trap" part is just a theory on which the state built a case. It's what I call a "what if".

And let me be clear about that statement:

I am not confused about what "circumstantial" means, or to what extent its compelling. I am not making a claim that unless one has direct or physical evidence such as DNA, that one has no evidence. What I've always said is that the state has a problem with proving that a crime occurred based on phone contact and a car and a truck heading into or toward a boat landing, and a person subsequently disappearing. The state itself said this case is made harder because of its lack of physical evidence and because there's no body. So the state trotted out IE charges and a kidnapping charge, and a luring type kidnapping charge. And now, we have an NP and a mistrial. Is all that really the fault of one judge and two jurors?

The truth is, we have no idea if Heather was lured. Certainly, the witness testimony does not indicate, much less, prove that. That is a theory that is currently failing if this mistrial is the example.

They had a better shot at a murder charge, although my view is that clinging to PTL as the crime scene was not going to fly. And didn't, if the NP is the example.

It seems to me that when there's a rejection of, or at least a failure to embrace the luring claim, a subsequent claim is made that "some" aren't grasping the evidence. I would argue that it's because the evidence is grasped and there's none proving that a lure was used that some of us feel the actual crime here is simply murder. No luring bells and whistles are needed to overcome the standard of reasonable doubt on that one, IMO.

We have no idea if Heather was not free to leave any location. We only know that she is gone, presumably because she is dead, and her likely death can be reasonably tied to contact with SM. If she was where she wanted to be and then was run over, stabbed, burned, bombed, gassed, or machine-gunned, the crime was not kidnapping and preventing her from leaving, it was murder. Period. Why she was where she was is, at this time, simply unknown, and it's troubling to see that a POV that she may well have wanted to be there is being characterized as disparaging of the victim or blaming her for own death.

Heather is dead because she was killed and her killer is responsible for that.

Not sure some understand the BBM. Btw, great post.
 
Did any of the witnesses testify they actually saw that photo or were they just told about it. Just curious. Can't recall.
Yes, at least two of the ladies that worked with Heather testified they saw the picture. His face, showing a big smile, was clearly visible--they could not actually vouch for the fact that it was his wife. It was not her face, apparently, that appeared.
 
I've been trying to catch up.... I have questions about Longbeards. Did Heather go inside or did anyone actually see her there?

It was after hours, her phone remained in 1 location while there. have not heard of anyone seeing her.

we know she was actually in possession of her phone and car at that time and that no one else had them?

I guess we do not really know. Neither the prosecution or defense posed this scenario that I remember, not sure why. Everyone assumes that it was indeed her. Others on here have asked this same question.

Could something have happened to her here? I read she parked over by dumpsters. As a woman, I would never park in an area that someone could pop out from. I don't know. This whole Longbeards thing has me curious. On Trip Advisor, one commenter says the restaurant is out in the middle of nowhere. Sounds creepy.

From what I understand, it is not that remote. Others on here have wondered the same as you, and also wondered why it was never mentioned before, and why the area around longbeards was not searched, as well as landfill locations where the dumpster contents were taken.



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Taking in the time of day, does not seem like she was moving on at all, if you buy that SM told HE he was leaving his wife, then one has to accept she thinks to herself,hey this hot guy is on the market and will be snatched up by another female in moments, I better make sure this does not happen so I will not wait till tomorrow and I will make sure that he sees me first.

<<Snipped for brevity>>
BBM:

Only if SM were on Venus... :lol:
:moo:
 
Well, obviously Heather wasn't allowed to leave, wherever she met SM, because she's not here now, and her phone was turned off. IF she was able to leave, and had possession of her phone, she would be here!! Whether the kidnapping was for minutes, or months, she was being held against her will, and THAT is kidnapping! It doesn't matter if she willingly left her apartment to meet him. What matters is that after meeting him, she's never seen again. So did aliens kidnap her? Not reasonable. Did she vaporize into thin air? Not reasonable. Did someone else meet her after she met SM? There's nothing to indicate that. Not one person has seen nor talked to Heather since she met SM. So reasonable theory, SM is responsible for her disappearance. If Heather was free to leave after meeting SM, there would a phone pinging, vehicle tracking on cameras, and most likely HE on social media, or using her phone. YET, none of that occurred.

If I see lightening, and hear thunder, and later walk outside and the grass is wet, I can reasonably assume it rained. Now the dog could have peed on that grass, someone could have sprayed the grass with a water hose, the fire dept could have put out a fire and left the grass wet, a flock of birds could have flown over and all decided to poop at the same time, but the most reasonable answer would be it rained.
 
I've been trying to catch up.... I have questions about Longbeards. Did Heather go inside or did anyone actually see her there? Do we know she was actually in possession of her phone and car at that time and that no one else had them? Could something have happened to her here? I read she parked over by dumpsters. As a woman, I would never park in an area that someone could pop out from. I don't know. This whole Longbeards thing has me curious. On Trip Advisor, one commenter says the restaurant is out in the middle of nowhere. Sounds creepy.

If she wasn't in possession of her phone, then SM lied because he said he talked to her at 3:17 which was after she left LBs.
 
As for SM's interview on the 20th, of course there were lies and deception. It is/was not like he was going to say Hey officer, wink wink, I have this hottie down at the Tilted Kilt, just don't let my wife know! Of course he was going to say it was over, doesn't mean he felt it was, just means he wanted his wife to think it was over. If we count days when he was out of state on vacation as indication it was over.....nah only separated by time and distance.
 
Snipped by me

From what I understand, it is not that remote. Others on here have wondered the same as you, and also wondered why it was never mentioned before, and why the area around longbeards was not searched, as well as landfill locations where the dumpster contents were taken.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

First and foremost this is my opinion. I have been left wondering why Longbeards has been the source of great concern by some that it was not publicly mentioned before. I say that because whether you believe the narrative by the state or not, I have yet to hear how they would have used this location and explained how she was or not was in control of her phone? Why would someone drive back to her apartment and who that was and then drive to PTL? Also, I do not understand why there was other information in the trial that was not public that didn't seem to be a surprise. For example, the interview at the M's home, which was quite revealing and contained many contradictions.

And forgive me if this has been answered before - Do we know that the area around Longbeards has not been searched? Do we know if they have questioned anyone on this area? Do we know for certain that landfills were not searched?
 
I think one thing people that don't see enough evidence of luring/kidnapping are forgetting that sm told Heather that he wanted to see her.

That is luring, even if she wanted to see him. He was counting on her wanting to see him. His saying he left his wife and wanted to see Heather was his hook.

Do you think the prosecutors might want to think about taking the direction of Heather being leured to LB's instead of PTL?

They did not have all the information when they named PTL as the crime scene. Now they have more information and PTL looks like a secondary location. Would naming LB's as the crime scene instead of PTL help their case? They could explain that they have more information now. Couldn't they?

By the way, Madeleine74 your posts are concise, well constructed, unbiased, and basicly amazing to read.

Thank you all for so many thought provoking posts.
 
Or ... why sneak through the night to call a former mistress--one to whom he had sent a picture showing himself and his wife having oral sex?

Iirc.. The prosecution never said when that happened.. does anybody know? There were two or three things if I recall correctly that I wanted to know when it was done but the prosecution never brought it out e.g. The pregnancy test .that being said neither did the defense
 
I've been trying to catch up.... I have questions about Longbeards. Did Heather go inside or did anyone actually see her there? Do we know she was actually in possession of her phone and car at that time and that no one else had them? Could something have happened to her here? I read she parked over by dumpsters. As a woman, I would never park in an area that someone could pop out from. I don't know. This whole Longbeards thing has me curious. On Trip Advisor, one commenter says the restaurant is out in the middle of nowhere. Sounds creepy.

I traveled from out of state to that restaurant during a vacation that I am on, last week. (see previous post) I personally liked the bar/ restaurant. It is only creepy because you have to go about a quarter-mile down down a curved road with nothing else from the major intersection in between . and it is surrounded by Woods without any street lights.

The bartender discussed with me that she was knowledgeable about the trial, and how she was pinging on her phone outside by dumpsters, but she did not mention that she was in the restaurant .. I would think if she had, that it would have been gossip with in the restaurant.

.. But I also consider that many restaurants will not gossip to Outsiders who come by from websleuths who have inquiring and nosy minds : :biggrin:
 
Iirc.. The prosecution never said when that happened.. does anybody know? There were two or three things if I recall correctly that I wanted to know when it was done but the prosecution never brought it out e.g. The pregnancy test .that being said neither did the defense

During the trial, I made a note that it likely happened on November 3 at 2:51 a.m. IIRC, NL didn't mention exactly what was sent, but made a big point that it was a text that had media attached.
 
Snipped by me



First and foremost this is my opinion. I have been left wondering why Longbeards has been the source of great concern by some that it was not publicly mentioned before. I say that because whether you believe the narrative by the state or not, I have yet to hear how they would have used this location and explained how she was or not was in control of her phone? Why would someone drive back to her apartment and who that was and then drive to PTL? Also, I do not understand why there was other information in the trial that was not public that didn't seem to be a surprise. For example, the interview at the M's home, which was quite revealing and contained many contradictions.

And forgive me if this has been answered before - Do we know that the area around Longbeards has not been searched? Do we know if they have questioned anyone on this area? Do we know for certain that landfills were not searched?

Using this post as a Segway to ask... can somebody repost the map of all the locations because I was there but I need the map to comment on it and what this post is saying . I'm on my phone right now but I will get to a computer later

TIA!!!
 
This was from okiegranny on another thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311099


4ea56baf-ecb9-4d17-8c5f-a686985cdf71_zpspphwgche.png


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
During the trial, I made a note that it likely happened on November 3 at 2:51 a.m. IIRC, NL didn't mention exactly what was sent, but made a big point that it was a text that had media attached.

I completely missed that. I wonder what was preventing the prosecutor from expanding upon that so that people who followed it like us would catch that?
 
Snipped by me



First and foremost this is my opinion. I have been left wondering why Longbeards has been the source of great concern by some that it was not publicly mentioned before. I say that because whether you believe the narrative by the state or not, I have yet to hear how they would have used this location and explained how she was or not was in control of her phone? Why would someone drive back to her apartment and who that was and then drive to PTL? Also, I do not understand why there was other information in the trial that was not public that didn't seem to be a surprise. For example, the interview at the M's home, which was quite revealing and contained many contradictions.

And forgive me if this has been answered before - Do we know that the area around Longbeards has not been searched? Do we know if they have questioned anyone on this area? Do we know for certain that landfills were not searched?
I do not think we know definitive answers to those questions

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
This was from okiegranny on another thread

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=311099


4ea56baf-ecb9-4d17-8c5f-a686985cdf71_zpspphwgche.png


Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

:tyou:

I drove the addresses that I had. Something on this map is not jiving for me. Long beards was about a fifth of a mile off a side street of a major two-lane road. From long beards.. I want a fifth of a mile.. took a left.. And I think it was 3 miles down her entrance to her apartments.

This map isn't showing that.

I'll have to revisit this later when I'm on my computer and revisit my notes and what I may have done wrong

Surfside... can you verify/assist?
 
I completely missed that. I wonder what was preventing the prosecutor from expanding upon that so that people who followed it like us would catch that?
Objections from kt

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