Mitigating - Aggravating Factors- General Information the penalty phase

[logicalgirl]

Yes, I am going to confess I had a somewhat ulterior motive for asking the Cindy vs Casey question. Well not really ulterior - but here goes.

I was reading the mitigating factors information and got to the part about abuse in the home, emotional blah blah. And you've read my comments about just how bad could it have been. Sure ICA is emotionally immature, etc. but does it rise to the standard of consideration during the mitigation process.

Let me make a blanket statement now that I do not like any of Cindy's behaviors - she has lied, attempted to impede the investigation - etc.etc.
Just thinking about the Gonzales depositions....grrr.

However, I was thinking about my youngest daughter and her rebelliousness during the years age 17 to about 22. The more she acted out, the more controlling and downright bossy I became. I was scared to death she would not "straighten out" and cause something serious to happen to her. It was nothing like Casey, but it was charging up my phone bill ($800 one month) not willing to pay nominal rent if she wasn't going to post secondary, coming in really late, not wanting to get up for work, generally being a slob like only a teenage daughter can be around the flat, charging up my cards, bouncing cheques - the more it went on the more frantic it went. She simply did not "hear" what I was saying.

Then she did and it stopped and she has been outstanding since then. Brilliant in fact.

But during that period - I definitely fell into the "now hear this" category. Which got me thinking about the "what ifs" of Cindy and ICA. Not saying (!) just asking.....:biggrin:

 

[Cat13067]

Yes, I am going to confess I had a somewhat ulterior motive for asking the Cindy vs Casey question. Well not really ulterior - but here goes.

I was reading the mitigating factors information and got to the part about abuse in the home, emotional blah blah. And you've read my comments about just how bad could it have been. Sure ICA is emotionally immature, etc. but does it rise to the standard of consideration during the mitigation process.

Let me make a blanket statement now that I do not like any of Cindy's behaviors - she has lied, attempted to impede the investigation - etc.etc.
Just thinking about the Gonzales depositions....grrr.

However, I was thinking about my youngest daughter and her rebelliousness during the years age 17 to about 22. The more she acted out, the more controlling and downright bossy I became. I was scared to death she would not "straighten out" and cause something serious to happen to her. It was nothing like Casey, but it was charging up my phone bill ($800 one month) not willing to pay nominal rent if she wasn't going to post secondary, coming in really late, not wanting to get up for work, generally being a slob like only a teenage daughter can be around the flat, charging up my cards, bouncing cheques - the more it went on the more frantic it went. She simply did not "hear" what I was saying.

Then she did and it stopped and she has been outstanding since then. Brilliant in fact.

But during that period - I definitely fell into the "now hear this" category. Which got me thinking about the "what ifs" of Cindy and ICA. Not saying (!) just asking.....:biggrin:

Interesting post! Now add a two year old child to that behavior, and I think we have our motive for murder.

 

[Mamabear1963]

I am mom to 14 ages 25-1...and yes the more exasperating they are, the more irresponsible they are the more I fret and fume...but I doubt you or I have ever reached CA level of control...from the hands on LA's shoulder...to the squeeze of GA's knee....

I realize I am being awful hard on CA, and I will admit that woman drives me battywonkers!!!!!

But honestly...I think CA's control came first...with a why bother to try response from ICA...though...I also believe ICA had a choice.

 

[Cat13067]

I am mom to 14 ages 25-1...and yes the more exasperating they are, the more irresponsible they are the more I fret and fume...but I doubt you or I have ever reached CA level of control...from the hands on LA's shoulder...to the squeeze of GA's knee....

I realize I am being awful hard on CA, and I will admit that woman drives me battywonkers!!!!!

But honestly...I think CA's control came first...with a why bother to try response from ICA...though...I also believe ICA had a choice.

Mother to 14!!!! WOW Happy Mother's Day

 

[logicalgirl]

Agree Cat13067 - absolutely. But to take that a bit further, do you think Cindy was always like that or became more like that because ICA's behaviors were really spiraling out of control into some serious stuff, aside from neglecting Caylee or at least avoiding whenever she could, caring for Caylee? Many posters will say always and probably then it could be brought up during the penalty phase.

And I'm not talking about routine boundaries etc parents must have for their children. Your comments?

 

[Anais]

Yes, I am going to confess I had a somewhat ulterior motive for asking the Cindy vs Casey question. Well not really ulterior - but here goes.

I was reading the mitigating factors information and got to the part about abuse in the home, emotional blah blah. And you've read my comments about just how bad could it have been. Sure ICA is emotionally immature, etc. but does it rise to the standard of consideration during the mitigation process.

Let me make a blanket statement now that I do not like any of Cindy's behaviors - she has lied, attempted to impede the investigation - etc.etc.
Just thinking about the Gonzales depositions....grrr.

However, I was thinking about my youngest daughter and her rebelliousness during the years age 17 to about 22. The more she acted out, the more controlling and downright bossy I became. I was scared to death she would not "straighten out" and cause something serious to happen to her. It was nothing like Casey, but it was charging up my phone bill ($800 one month) not willing to pay nominal rent if she wasn't going to post secondary, coming in really late, not wanting to get up for work, generally being a slob like only a teenage daughter can be around the flat, charging up my cards, bouncing cheques - the more it went on the more frantic it went. She simply did not "hear" what I was saying.

Then she did and it stopped and she has been outstanding since then. Brilliant in fact.

But during that period - I definitely fell into the "now hear this" category. Which got me thinking about the "what ifs" of Cindy and ICA. Not saying (!) just asking.....:biggrin:

You know I am all too familiar with the rebellion of early adulthood children and the utter frustrations & chaos that come with it. Dear Lord don't even get me going! I have number 3 still at home and finally getting his feet planted firmly back in place. I see what you mean and where you were headed now and understand.

The thing is I was actually thinking about ICA and CA and the odd thing is when you really look at it they are so much alike in many ways. Too many imo, kind of frightening! Lying....the list is long. The big difference of course is that CA did get her nursing degree and work for a living at one time. I do see both CA & ICA as extremely narcissitic people. JMO

Going back to ICA's letters however she really gets down on CA for "milking" the system and the current situation of Caylee missing etc. Kind of like the kettle calling the pot black!

 

[logicalgirl]

I am mom to 14 ages 25-1...and yes the more exasperating they are, the more irresponsible they are the more I fret and fume...but I doubt you or I have ever reached CA level of control...from the hands on LA's shoulder...to the squeeze of GA's knee....

I realize I am being awful hard on CA, and I will admit that woman drives me battywonkers!!!!!

But honestly...I think CA's control came first...with a why bother to try response from ICA...though...I also believe ICA had a choice.

Holy Moly! Fourteen!! I'm am in awe!!! Bless you!

 

[Macushla]

When JB asked for the JAC records to be sealed he cited Florida Rule of Court 3.216 (a). This rule pertains to "insanity at the time of the offense". In 43 states Florida being one of them 1% of defense attorneys defend their clients claiming insanity. Out of the 1% one quarter of those cases were successful. An example would be John Hinkley the man who shot Ronald Reagan. John Hinkley was deemed insane, and sentenced to a mental facility. The difference between John Hinkley, and KC is John had a documented history of mental health issues. I don't believe KC telling AD that she needs to go to a mental institution would carry any weight with the jurors. If CA, and GA felt she displayed mental disorders why would they allow Caylee to be alone with KC? There is just no evidence to support KC had any mental disorders so, citing 3.216 (a) is far reaching for the defense. The prosecution does not have any doctors on their witness list with regard to KC's mental health. KC was given an exam by two mental health professionals that found her sane. They also noted that KC knew right from wrong which is opposite from someone like John Hinkley.

I did not realize what that rule of court was! Oh My, did they mean to let the world know they are going towards some kind of mental health defense? Thank you so much for pointing this out. This goes along with what I thought about the mystery expert at the hearing - it will be someone in the mental health field! It also strengthens my belief that they are going try for a plea bargain in the not too distant future!

 

[whiteangora]

I did not realize what that rule of court was! Oh My, did they mean to let the world know they are going towards some kind of mental health defense? Thank you so much for pointing this out. This goes along with what I thought about the mystery expert at the hearing - it will be someone in the mental health field! It also strengthens my belief that they are going try for a plea bargain in the not too distant future!

bbm

If that's what they're planning on doing then I wish they would just do it and stop wasting everybody's time and money.
I know there are quite a few people who have insisted this trial will never take place and their conclusions were drawn in 2008.
But now, the big question is if the State would even consider a plea at this point in time?

 

[Paintr]

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/

Hornsby said those circumstances are that the victim was younger than 12, that Anthony was the parent; that the crime was premeditated; and that the crime involved aggravated child abuse.

But prosecutors could also argue that Anthony stood to benefit monetarily from Caylee’s death and that the crime was especially heinous, atrocious or cruel.

Ashton has hinted at the cruel nature of the murder when he described Caylee’s mouth as being duct-taped and suggested that the toddler might have looked into the murderer’s eyes, Ober said.

“I don’t think there can be anything more compelling or riveting in proving cruel, atrocious or heinous than that description, ” Hornsby said.

 

[sleutherontheside]

It is standard for a defense to prepare for the sentencing portion of the trial (mitigation is a major component of that). It does not confirm guilt, just prepares a "story" to tell that will not just "humanize" the defendant.....but one that may sway opinions and explain "how the defendant may have reached this point".

Mitigation is very extensive and digs deep into family, social, and other issues. We have seen comments that AL's mitigation specialist has spoken with KC's teachers. It is a very comprehensive process.

This is certainly not a defense for KC's behavior.....but I wanted to make sure that people understand that mitigation is something that the defense prepares for as much as the defense itself.

 

[Cat13067]

Agree Cat13067 - absolutely. But to take that a bit further, do you think Cindy was always like that or became more like that because ICA's behaviors were really spiraling out of control into some serious stuff, aside from neglecting Caylee or at least avoiding whenever she could, caring for Caylee? Many posters will say always and probably then it could be brought up during the penalty phase.

And I'm not talking about routine boundaries etc parents must have for their children. Your comments?

I think when JG came into the picture, and KC started leaning on him more than her mother CA became jealous. I am sure watching JG holding Caylee went right through CA. Then with KC moving in with the Grunds CA must have felt completely left out. Finally when KC, and JG broke up CA attached herself to Caylee, and could care less what KC did. KC got jealous of the relationship Caylee had with CA, and the fighting began, and never stopped until our sweet Caylee was killed by KC. It was the ultimate revenge killing for KC. KC was finally rid of her mother, and the strong hold she had over her. Like others have said, KC hated CA more than she loved Caylee. The irony is CA will be guilty of the same crime. A mother's words put her daughter in jail for murder, and those words will be with KC when she dies.

 

[Cat13067]

I did not realize what that rule of court was! Oh My, did they mean to let the world know they are going towards some kind of mental health defense? Thank you so much for pointing this out. This goes along with what I thought about the mystery expert at the hearing - it will be someone in the mental health field! It also strengthens my belief that they are going try for a plea bargain in the not too distant future!

They may also use this insanity defense during sentencing.

 

[qipx1]

Florida Statute: 921.141
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes..._Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0921/Sec141.HTM

Relevant Aggravating Circumstances:
(d) The capital felony was committed while the defendant was engaged, or was an accomplice, in the commission of, or an attempt to commit, or flight after committing or attempting to commit, any: robbery; sexual battery; aggravated child abuse; abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult resulting in great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; arson; burglary; kidnapping; aircraft piracy; or unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb.

(h) The capital felony was especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel.

(i) The capital felony was a homicide and was committed in a cold, calculated, and premeditated manner without any pretense of moral or legal justification.

(l) The victim of the capital felony was a person less than 12 years of age.

(m) The victim of the capital felony was particularly vulnerable due to advanced age or disability, or because the defendant stood in a position of familial or custodial authority over the victim.



Relevant Mitigating Circumstances:
(b) The capital felony was committed while the defendant was under the influence of extreme mental or emotional disturbance.
(e) The defendant acted under extreme duress or under the substantial domination of another person.
(f) The capacity of the defendant to appreciate the criminality of his or her conduct or to conform his or her conduct to the requirements of law was substantially impaired.

(g) The age of the defendant at the time of the crime.

(h) The existence of any other factors in the defendant's background that would mitigate against imposition of the death penalty.

 

[TrialAddict]

I am mom to 14 ages 25-1...and yes the more exasperating they are, the more irresponsible they are the more I fret and fume...but I doubt you or I have ever reached CA level of control...from the hands on LA's shoulder...to the squeeze of GA's knee....

I realize I am being awful hard on CA, and I will admit that woman drives me battywonkers!!!!!

But honestly...I think CA's control came first...with a why bother to try response from ICA...though...I also believe ICA had a choice.

WOW 14 I only have 11 ...ages 16-47 I am 56 LOL you do the math!

 

[Macushla]

They may also use this insanity defense during sentencing.

I don't think they are going to use an 'insanity' defense, but I do think they are going to come up with something very 'outside the box'. Knowing that there are enough Doctors out there with pet theories who would be more than happy to use this case as their soap box, I am wondering if they are going to use something like 'road rage' but replace road with family. How about "Sudden Explosive Rage Syndrome" where she just snaps because she is so angry? Or Traumatic Rage (triggered by something that made her remember abuse from the past). Now I THINK I just made these up, so you could get an idea of what I was thinking. However, there may well be 'syndromes' like this out there. I mean someone had to come up with the twinkie defense first, right?

Insanity and even temp insanity have too many parameters that will have to be met and I don't think they can do it with KC. She would need more of a history with either one of those. New, improved and probalby made up theories, however, can be tailored to her.

Sheer speculation on my part, but it keeps me little gray cells moving around to think about this kind of thing!

 

[Paintr]

I don't think they are going to use an 'insanity' defense, but I do think they are going to come up with something very 'outside the box'. Knowing that there are enough Doctors out there with pet theories who would be more than happy to use this case as their soap box, I am wondering if they are going to use something like 'road rage' but replace road with family. How about "Sudden Explosive Rage Syndrome" where she just snaps because she is so angry? Or Traumatic Rage (triggered by something that made her remember abuse from the past). Now I THINK I just made these up, so you could get an idea of what I was thinking. However, there may well be 'syndromes' like this out there. I mean someone had to come up with the twinkie defense first, right?

Insanity and even temp insanity have too many parameters that will have to be met and I don't think they can do it with KC. She would need more of a history with either one of those. New, improved and probalby made up theories, however, can be tailored to her.

Sheer speculation on my part, but it keeps me little gray cells moving around to think about this kind of thing!

How about 'Exploding Head Syndrome' one of my favourites! (an actual condition)

 

[Roze]

How about 'Exploding Head Syndrome' one of my favourites! (an actual condition)

Is there an Exploding Hedonist Syndrome?

 

[pamandabear]

Hello, I am new here, but have been following this case from the beginning...I have an issue with what AL has proposed regarding the death penalty and how research shows something about women are more likely to be put to death? I hope I am misinformed because that imo, is the complete opposite, I would think women are less likely to be put to death:waitasec:....does anyone else have thoughts on this?

 

[sleutherontheside]

While many of the "creative motions" (AL actually has an article and lecture.....Creative Motions Practice) seem far reaching..........she is merely setting up grounds for an appeal. If she doesn't ask NOW.....she can't cite gender bias later.

She is filing motions in order to protect the appeals process. She has to prove that she attempted to handle that issue before trial and was turned down. If she doesn't ask now....she can't ask later (based on the same premise).