Mitigating Factor: Casey's Parents

[Kimster]

Let's get back on track to the topic.

We can have a constructive discussion about the possibilities of the affect, if any, her parents may have during the sentencing phase. If this turns into just a CA and GA bashing thread, we already have plenty.

Let's try to think of ideas that Lyons might have during sentencing that would keep KC from receiving the DP specifically in regard to her parents.

 

[Kimster]

I have a question...

Did any of you read Diane Fanning's book? I didn't, but friends of mine said she had some theories in the book about why KC is who she is and perhaps some of those will come into play during the sentencing phase?

 

[JBean]

Let's get back on track to the topic.

We can have a constructive discussion about the possibilities of the affect, if any, her parents may have during the sentencing phase. If this turns into just a CA and GA bashing thread, we already have plenty.

Let's try to think of ideas that Lyons might have during sentencing that would keep KC from receiving the DP specifically in regard to her parents.

I think they will have to go into her upbringing. but i don't necessarily believe it will be about the dysfunction, but it could be more about the closeness she has with her brother and her parents despite the adversity. Perhaps they will just paint a picture of her as a human being that is loved and has a family.
I don't think the dysfunctional aspects of her family will be all that remarkable. I mean the dynamics are seriously troubled, but not enough to mitigate or explain away murder.
In the event of conviction,I assume they will not reference her guilt and they cannot reference her innocence , so i think they will just try and appeal to the emotions of the jury.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

This movie I watched the other day with Kirsty Alley playing a mom - Our Family Sins (or something like that) is a docudrama. KA portrays this oh-so-friendly mom, neighbor and civic person who, in reality, is a domineering, abusive person. She captures a friend and her baby by offering them a roof over their heads when the friend is down and out and then she and the other members of her family abuse them. Eventually the friend's child grows old enough to get pregnant and has a baby fathered by this woman's husband. Also, over the years, she takes in foster children and teaches them to steal and set fires to coverup the robberies. When she's not doing those bad acts, she's doing a lot of normal things and portrays herself as a very friendly and giving person. Everyone in the town has a high opinion of her and her family.

Finally the whole family is arrested and when the bio daughter tells part of the truth to the authorities, the sociopath mom allows her to get beaten up at the hands of the other prisoners and totally turns her back on her own daughter without batting an eyelash because, the way she sees it, she betrayed her and that's that. All or nothing fits perfectly and she expected full obediance and loyalty in return for her "love and care".

Here is the distinguishing realization I had though while watching this movie - Alley's character portrays how a Sociopath is, in that, she did not seem weird at all outwardly to the general public (like KC does at times???). She seemed like a best friend to everyone with normal affectations, responses, etc. She could sell the vulnerable down the river before they knew what hit them and then make it seem like it was their own doing, etc.

Very interesting and good to know. I'll never take anybody at face value again - I want to see over time who you are and there should be flaws but honest ones. I've learned so much from following this case that I needed to become aware of (as I never had words for some of my observations about certain people before). Not pretty but good to be aware of all the human conditions imo.

If I had watched the movie two years ago, I would not have had a real life scenario playing before my eyes (but removed from me personally) to think about. I conclude the characters in the A family are not "normal". Yes "normal" people have problems and stuff but they are honest about them and consistent (not making cutting remarks to the friends about your own daughter but turning around and portraying your daughter as a perfect mother such as yourself). My observation is that the A family falls away from being "normal" and I suspect we will hear more about the abnormal ways they do in the future. IMO.

 

[kaRN]

All valid points, and well thought out. However, if you are sitting on the defense team, and a guilty verdict was inevitable, wouldn't you pull all the punches you could?

ITA, what family isn't dysfunctial? I would guess all of them, in varying degrees. My own little family unit just drove around 2000 miles so my dad could drive us all batty for the holidays. I wanted to run screaming out the door about once every couple of hours, but it's family.

It's lovely that you can sympathise with the A's, and I really do mean that. In my more humane moments, I can sympathise with them too. However, in the courtroom, things could get ugly. There will be blows beneath the belt, even at their expense. JMO

Respectfully bolded by me but no, I would never throw innocents under the bus to defend my guilty client. Justice should be just.

Sorry about your holiday....I can relate LOL

 

[autumnlover]

Respectfully bolded by me but no, I would never throw innocents under the bus to defend my guilty client. Justice should be just.

Sorry about your holiday....I can relate LOL

ITA but unfortunately, defense attorneys do it all the time. A lot of people already were thrown under the bus including JA, TL, RM, AH and RK. The A's have participated wholeheartedly in this and I suspect, that if KC gets convicted they will be thrown under the bus, as well.

 

[Searchfortruth]

I never supported my daughter's lies either... Yet was so shocked daily as they were forced upon me..... How this my daughter...the one that I had...the one that I love so deeply beyond words.....the one who was made from me....words just can't explain...what the heart won't allow. Sometimes what is real...is just too much for our mere hearts to accept.....does this make sense??? Again I am not taking up for anyone....just expressing what my own heart is feeling and not from the same circumstances at all.... if that makes any sense...

I hope you didn't think I was directing my words to you. If that was the way it sounded, I apologize. I thought your posts were very honest and kind. I appreciated your willingness to share.

A mothers love is strong (this statement sounds familiar) and it is this love that keeps us going when we would have given up long before, had it been anyone else.

 

[essies]

I think they will have to go into her upbringing. but i don't necessarily believe it will be about the dysfunction, but it could be more about the closeness she has with her brother and her parents despite the adversity. Perhaps they will just paint a picture of her as a human being that is loved and has a family.
I don't think the dysfunctional aspects of her family will be all that remarkable. I mean the dynamics are seriously troubled, but not enough to mitigate or explain away murder.
In the event of conviction,I assume they will not reference her guilt and they cannot reference her innocence , so i think they will just try and appeal to the emotions of the jury.

ITA According to the logs Angel Who Cares posted today-Jeanene Barret (a mitigation specialist) has visited KC 11 times since June 2009!
PDF: Updated Casey Anthony Visitor Log 10/15/08 - 12/19/09
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=0...Y2E1NDIy&hl=en
More about Jeanene Barret-
Visits preparing for Death Penalty Phase of a Trial
http://www..com/2009/12/casey-anthony-jail-visits-with-baez-show-big-decline/

 

[txsvicki]

I think the family will hurt Casey's defense, because they are living proof of just about all of her lies, manipulations, thefts, and plots to deceive and use others for her profit. People will be able to see that she just about destroyed the whole family. Maybe that's why they have tried to look fresher and healthier, but it won't work. Their going on TV was a huge mistake if they truly did want to help Casey. I don't believe that Casey's upbringing will be used because most of what she told her friends were total lies about her parents and her brother. The divorce, the cheating, heart attack, JG hating CA for some reason, his dad hating CA, selling their home, disliking Hispanics, and on and on. Most likely all lies.

 

[Bobbisangel]

Her parents are going to seal her fate imo, the raw words of her parents early on while speaking to LE. No one is going to feel sorry for Casey that she was coddled and over indulged.

Every criminal has parents they throw under the bus at sentence phase. It will fail.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEO_GQElPvA

Can you just see George and Cindy at the sentencing phase. You know they will have to speak on Casey's behalf and tell the jury how innocent she is and what a wonderful mother she was. They will tell little storys about her and Caylee and make the whole courtroom want to throwup. I can just hear them. Not a word about sweet Caylee and how much they miss her and want justice for her. It will all be about beautiful gorgeous Casey :sick: Casey will sit there preening like a peacock looking at her parents with dog eyes.

I don't think there is anything anyone can say or do that is going to help Casey. The jury will have to see all of the bones left of Caylee when she was found in the woods...the skull with the tape and heart. And they will see pic's of little Caylee alive and hopefully singing "You Are My Sunshine" at the nursing home and snuggled on great grandpa's lap. Such a sweet little girl. They are going to hate Casey Anthony. I will just be curious to see if they give her the death penalty. After hearing how she died they just might.

 

[Gypsy Road]

I'm on the fence whether or not Casey's parents or how they raised her will affect things during the penalty phase (if there is one - which I think there will be). But I'm leaning towards - the Anthony's and their behavior won't matter. Casey KNEW right from wrong when she killed Caylee. I think that can be proven by looking at her actions (not reporting, covering up the crime, cleaning up the trunk, disposing of the body, and all the other crap she did yadda yadda yadda). JMO! She may be a psychopath, but whatever mental defect/disorder she has - does not change the fact that she knew killing Caylee was wrong.

 

[The World According]

I don't mean to be misunderstood...I don't attempt to make excuses for Casey Anthony or my own daughter....or anyone else for that matter. there are just different things that make up reasons for everything that happens in life. I guess. I don't begin to understand any of them. My heart breaks for how my own daughter's life has turned out...yet I am so thankful...it has not turned out as Casey Anthony's life has turned out. No matter what anyone tells me I still can not explain how a mother can cause her own child's death. But I do accept that there are things in life I can not explain. There are things in life that are just evil...I get that...but there are also things in life that are of mental problems...that I get too....It is not an excuse...but a cause I think.... Please forgive me for being I guess what you would call as simple minded....I come here for all the great minds that come together to find answers to all these impossible questions...

Thank you for posting your deeply personal story. It helps us that cannot imagine, get a glimpse behind the closed door. I think you are a brave and strong lady. People read here from all over the world. You may never know the light your candor shines on someone's life. Again, we welcome you here.

Like you, there may be parents sitting on the jury thinking to themselves, if not for the grace of God, there would be my daughter or son. They may see little bits of mom and pop or even Casey in their own family and we cannot discount the empathy that may bring. In the end I think the pictures of Caylee and the idea of what might have been, a full life...gone too soon will bring a very harsh punishment for Casey.

 

[BeanE]

Andrea Lyon will be out to spare KC's life, not CA and GA's reputation or feelings. She's a tiger who wants to win at any cost.

Going through the allowed and disallowed mitigating factors, Andrea has extremely little she will be permitted to work with. I believe, therefore, she will aggressively attack the parenting of CA and GA, saying CA was emotionally abusive, and GA emotionally neglectful, and that this resulted in mental/emotional issues in KC that led to KC killing Caylee.

I believe this is why she specifically chose the mitigation specialist she did. Mitigation specialists come from a wide variety of backgrounds. Barrett's background is social work. I've been reading up on what mitigation specialists do, based on their specific backgrounds. My money is on Barrett developing a history of emotional abuse leading to mental/emotional issues (not insanity - insanity's not needed for mitigation).

I think the jury will accept and understand the explanations developed and presented. People want explanations, people want to know why. I don't know if the defense will be able to take the majority of the jury that one step further necessary where they will see this explanation as mitigating to the extent that they feel KC's life should be spared. I think they could lead some jurors to it, but I just know if they can lead a majority to it.

Please note, before jumping on me, that when I say accept this explanation of why KC killed Caylee, I do not mean that the jury will see it in any way as an excuse for killing Caylee. There is no excuse for KC killing Caylee, and I am confident the jury will know that.

In no way do I think any juror will think it was 'okay' for KC to kill Caylee, or that it was in any way CA or GA's fault that KC killed Caylee. Just simply what I said, that they could understand and accept this explanation of how KC came to kill Caylee.

Okay, you can jump on me now.

 

[The World According]

No jumping on Bean E. That is rule 57! LOL!


I agree with you. After studying a bit recently about the visitors to Casey and what they specialize in, and listening to Professor Lyons seminars..... it is going to be brutal for mom and pop.

I hope that Brad has seen what we have all seen and read the writing on the wall and prepares them accordingly that she is going to be downright cruel to them. Perhaps some of the defense investigators questioning of them as of late has given them hints to what is to come and thus the are somber and uncharacteristically private right now.

Cindy, if you are reading here, brace yourself. The penalty phase is going to make brother Rick's letter look charming by comparison. Sure Andrea will apologize to them , profusely and in advance, but it is going to be brutal.

Brother Rick to Cindy in an e mail:
"Email from Rick to Cindy
August 21 2008 at 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: won’t do Greta

Cindy, George did wrestle his dad and put him thru the window. That is why George had to start his own business. Don’t lie to me about it. Mom filled me in on Casey so don’t lie to me about her. She STOLE dads check and bought a stupid phone at AT&T so don’t lie to me about the $354!!!! Mom has the god damn statement! I know I re verified with mom today!!! The sitter IS the whole case! Are you that dumb??? The house could be JOE BLOWS for Christ’s sake. are you that naive??? You really are that stupid. I can’t believe it. My sister is a moron. You need help. You are delirious! I WAS trying to help you. Your grand daughter is dead!! there I said it. Casey has killed her someway either by accident or on purpose. Casey is a narcissist Read up on it. You and George have been walking through life with blinders on. Casey made you both look like fools at my wedding. Did you forget I told you she was pregnant!!! You are a nurse for Christ’s sake. You are a fool. Casey has buffaloed you and George for a long time. I also know about George and the internet and he paid most of it back from his workers comp check. Casey ran up the tab. Mom knows and told me you idiot. You think what you d is secret? You are living a fantasy!! Wake the hell up sister!! George’s debt was paid over time in Ohio. I remember the settlement and that was from 1989. You think I am as dumb as you? You are not only in denial but are missing your brain. The article of clothing of the sitters was verified by who? Casey? No one ever saw the sitter so how could they have proven to be hers. What drugs are you on. You are so stupid I can’t take it. You should make the Guinness book of world records for being gullible. The only thing that God knows is Casey is a liar and you are stupid. Casey knows where Caylee is and when all the evidence is in she will get the death penalty for murder. You have to be a moron for destroying evidence with washing pants that smell like a dead body. If they were in the car and the smell was in the trunk how could the pants stink? Think use that think on your shoulders. If the cops didn’t think you were stupid they would bring charges against you and George for destroying evidence. I disowned Nate for lying for Pam and I can disown you for your ignorance. I see how Casey is so screwed up between you and George as role models. Saying Casey will be mother of the year I nearly tossed my groceries. She will be mutha of the year. Those people in prison will have a field day with her. You better tell her to confess and ask for solitary. It is her only hope. Do you think I care anymore after you attacked me. You are in another universe. You and George ARE on your own. Good luck with that.
Oh by the way, EVERYONE ON GRETA THINKS CAYLEE IS DEAD INCLUDING GRETA! DO YOU EVER WATCH HER SHOW? WHAT A MORON YOU ARE!!! MENTAL HOSPITAL HERE YOU COME!!!"

 

[Searchfortruth]

No jumping on Bean E. That is rule 57! LOL!


I agree with you. After studying a bit recently about the visitors to Casey and what they specialize in, and listening to Professor Lyons seminars..... it is going to be brutal for mom and pop.

I hope that Brad has seen what we have all seen and read the writing on the wall and prepares them accordingly that she is going to be downright cruel to them. Perhaps some of the defense investigators questioning of them as of late has given them hints to what is to come and thus the are somber and uncharacteristically private right now.

Cindy, if you are reading here, brace yourself. The penalty phase is going to make brother Rick's letter look charming by comparison. Sure Andrea will apologize to them , profusely and in advance, but it is going to be brutal.

Brother Rick to Cindy in an e mail:
"Email from Rick to Cindy
August 21 2008 at 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: won’t do Greta

Cindy, George did wrestle his dad and put him thru the window. That is why George had to start his own business. Don’t lie to me about it. Mom filled me in on Casey so don’t lie to me about her. She STOLE dads check and bought a stupid phone at AT&T so don’t lie to me about the $354!!!! Mom has the god damn statement! I know I re verified with mom today!!! The sitter IS the whole case! Are you that dumb??? The house could be JOE BLOWS for Christ’s sake. are you that naive??? You really are that stupid. I can’t believe it. My sister is a moron. You need help. You are delirious! I WAS trying to help you. Your grand daughter is dead!! there I said it. Casey has killed her someway either by accident or on purpose. Casey is a narcissist Read up on it. You and George have been walking through life with blinders on. Casey made you both look like fools at my wedding. Did you forget I told you she was pregnant!!! You are a nurse for Christ’s sake. You are a fool. Casey has buffaloed you and George for a long time. I also know about George and the internet and he paid most of it back from his workers comp check. Casey ran up the tab. Mom knows and told me you idiot. You think what you d is secret? You are living a fantasy!! Wake the hell up sister!! George’s debt was paid over time in Ohio. I remember the settlement and that was from 1989. You think I am as dumb as you? You are not only in denial but are missing your brain. The article of clothing of the sitters was verified by who? Casey? No one ever saw the sitter so how could they have proven to be hers. What drugs are you on. You are so stupid I can’t take it. You should make the Guinness book of world records for being gullible. The only thing that God knows is Casey is a liar and you are stupid. Casey knows where Caylee is and when all the evidence is in she will get the death penalty for murder. You have to be a moron for destroying evidence with washing pants that smell like a dead body. If they were in the car and the smell was in the trunk how could the pants stink? Think use that think on your shoulders. If the cops didn’t think you were stupid they would bring charges against you and George for destroying evidence. I disowned Nate for lying for Pam and I can disown you for your ignorance. I see how Casey is so screwed up between you and George as role models. Saying Casey will be mother of the year I nearly tossed my groceries. She will be mutha of the year. Those people in prison will have a field day with her. You better tell her to confess and ask for solitary. It is her only hope. Do you think I care anymore after you attacked me. You are in another universe. You and George ARE on your own. Good luck with that.
Oh by the way, EVERYONE ON GRETA THINKS CAYLEE IS DEAD INCLUDING GRETA! DO YOU EVER WATCH HER SHOW? WHAT A MORON YOU ARE!!! MENTAL HOSPITAL HERE YOU COME!!!"

Thanks so much for posting this e-mail from Rick, I had forgotten some of it and it does my heart good everytime I read it. My hats off to Rick and Shirley, bless them.

 

[CarrieK]

I, too, agree with JBean. Andrea Lyon will have the job of humanizing KC, presenting to the jury that KC is a human being with feelings and emotions, and that somehow her human needs of love, respect, and validation have not been met by her parents. It will not be argued as an excuse for her behavior, IMO, but will be put forth as a cause for KC's seeming lack of love and respect for her own daughter. I think Andrea Lyon will have to show that KC didn't learn how to love Caylee, and will place the blame for that directly on CA and GA. Lyon will try to invoke sympathy from the jurors by showing KC was a "victim" of her upbringing who never learned to love. While, personally, I don't think this argument has much weight, Lyon doesn't have a whole lot to work with.

I'm sure that some of the mitigation arguments will be placed on the fact that KC has no prior record as well. That's a standard mitigation argument when it applies.

It seems as though, given the evidence released thus far, one argument that could be raised during trial could be that there is no way to prove that KC purposely murdered her child. I'm thinking that, barring any new evidence to the contrary, since the ME was not able to provide a cause of death, that issue will be raised to suggest that KC did not murder Caylee, but that a tragic accident occurred. How much of that will make its way into reasonable doubt that an actual, purposeful, premeditated murder had taken place? I wonder if such an argument is able to be used during mitigation, even after a guilty verdict is found?

At any rate, if there is a conviction of murder in the 1st deg, Andrea Lyon has her work cut out for her in mitigation. A jury who ponders the evidence and finds KC guilty of the highest charge will most likely have already decided that the mitigating evidence pales in comparison to the evidence supporting KC's conviction. JMO.

 

[wenwe4]

If I were the Social Worker, Jeanene, I would be looking for patterns of behavior in KC's background that might indicate undiagnosed bipolar disorder. One way to argue a mitigating factor would be to show where KC was in a manic phase (which might be well supported by her constant texting at all hours). Her patterns established so far is to deny, deny, deny until the very last second that she is confronted and then admit and expect all will be forgotten and everyone should move on from here. (ie: the pregnancy, highschool graduation, employment, Caylee is missing). I would be looking at times in her school history where there might have been identified problems and GA & CA swept it under the rug. I would want to know if there are cyclical patterns of manic phases in her behaviors previously. I would be looking for learning disabilities, interaction with peers, what happened when she did get in trouble (ie: school or neighbors) in the past, any consequences for negative behaviors? Medical records, a history of head or brain trauma, domestic violence, issues of child abuse and/or neglect in KC'S childhood, etc.

 

[essies]

If I were the Social Worker, Jeanene, I would be looking for patterns of behavior in KC's background that might indicate undiagnosed bipolar disorder. One way to argue a mitigating factor would be to show where KC was in a manic phase (which might be well supported by her constant texting at all hours). Her patterns established so far is to deny, deny, deny until the very last second that she is confronted and then admit and expect all will be forgotten and everyone should move on from here. (ie: the pregnancy, highschool graduation, employment, Caylee is missing). I would be looking at times in her school history where there might have been identified problems and GA & CA swept it under the rug. I would want to know if there are cyclical patterns of manic phases in her behaviors previously. I would be looking for learning disabilities, interaction with peers, what happened when she did get in trouble (ie: school or neighbors) in the past, any consequences for negative behaviors? Medical records, a history of head or brain trauma, domestic violence, issues of child abuse and/or neglect in KC'S childhood, etc.

Well, JBarrett is working very hard! On 11/14 (according to the logs) she visited with KC from 8:46 pm to 6:20 am 11/15!!
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...WUtYjNlMi00NTBmLWE1ZmItMmFmNmE3Y2E1NDIy&hl=en

I think it shows that she knows she has got her work cut out for her! Here are her credentials-
Jeanene Barrett is the Mitigation Specialist for the CJCC. Jeanene joined the CJCC in March, 2008 after having worked within the child welfare field for over eleven years. She is also a Criminal Justice adjunct faculty member at Westwood College. Jeanene received her M.A. in Social Work from the University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration, M.S. degree in Human Services Administration from Spertus College, and a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Southern Illinois University, Carbondale.
http://www.law.depaul.edu/centers_institutes/cjcc/death_penalty_seminar.asp
Too bad we don't know how much time she has logged with G&C!!:waitasec:

 

[elementary]

I'm really enjoying everyone's take on this.

Considering that the perp is a pathological liar and fantabulist, I can't imagine that the mitigation specialists are spending endless hours asking the perp about her experience of growing up in that family. Are they, indeed, buying everything she's selling? Or are they probing for something else that might help? If so, I can't imagine what that would be.
Or, are they coaching her in how to be and present as a victim?

 

[BeanE]

Well, JBarrett is working very hard! On 11/14 (according to the logs) she visited with KC from 8:46 pm to 6:20 am 11/15!!
http://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...WUtYjNlMi00NTBmLWE1ZmItMmFmNmE3Y2E1NDIy&hl=en

I think it shows that she knows she has got her work cut out for her! Here are her credentials-
Jeanene Barrett is the Mitigation Specialist for the CJCC. Jeanene joined the CJCC in March, 2008 after having worked within the child welfare field for over eleven years. She is also a Criminal Justice adjunct faculty member at Westwood College. Jeanene received her M.A. in Social Work from the University of Chicago School of Social Service Administration, M.S. degree in Human Services Administration from Spertus College, and a B.S. in Criminal Justice from Southern Illinois University, Carbondale.
http://www.law.depaul.edu/centers_institutes/cjcc/death_penalty_seminar.asp
Too bad we don't know how much time she has logged with G&C!!:waitasec:

We may need to Baker Act poor Jeanene before this is all over.

MOO