Mitigation: Ineffective Assistance of Counsel

[gitana1]

I agree, and share your concerns.
In my lay opinion, I can definitely envision grounds for appeal by the Inmate if/when she is convicted.
Necessitating a RE-trial. I would think a delay now, before trial starts would be better than a RE-do.
If this "problem" is not addressed now, and resolved - it cannot be overlooked.
The Inmate, with the support of her parents, can argue that it was public knowledge that the attorney representing the Inmate was repeatedly committing a third degree felony, and nothing was done about it. She can say that she was not adequately represented by this particular attorney. She can argue that she relied upon him and his knowledge of the law.
I foresee all kinds of landmines resulting from this issue, if left unresolved.

If the rules in the Inmate Handbook do not really matter, pertaining to contraband, why does the Handbook say it is a third degree felony, punishable by $ 5,000 or 5 years in prison? Which rules do they "really" mean to enforce?

The Jail rule and the Florida law do not say that it is a third degree felony, ONLY if the content of the letters introduced as contraband was a "security risk". The law is that NO contraband, written communication of any kind is allowed (and for good reason).

I'd love to hear a criminal attorney, like RH's take on this. But I don't think JB's possible criminal behavior would have anything to do with a potential ineffective assistance win. It is really not related to the important parts of how he is representing his client. It may show that he's sneaky and unethical but as long as he is providing her an otherwise minimally adequate defense, I don't think it matters. JMO.

 

[Whome?]

ITA with your obsevations of JB and ICA and I'm sure Judge Perry is aware of them also! I wish we could have seen ICA's face when Judge Perry was stating that the state was seeking the ultimate punishment by lethal injection! I hope she was not busy passing notes to JB's law clerk!!:furious:

I wish that we were able to see a split
screen,with HHJP on one side and JB
on the other side,I want to see HHJP's
reaction to some of JB's antics.

:slap:

 

[gitana1]

I could be wrong on this, but doesn't an ineffective council appeal require more than simply "My Lawyer was a Bobo"? I mean the requirement is not simply that the attorney is clueless or incompetent, but that the incompetence has a direct and observable impact on the outcome of the trial, and that a reasonable person could conclude that different council would have had an extremely high probability of a different verdict. In other words as an example, the ineffective lawyer failed to do proper due diligence and missed key pieces of exonerating evidence, that are then readily apparent on review. So if there was some clear piece of evidence buried in the stacks of documents dumps that in some way proves that KC could not have done it, and Baez missed it or failed to bring it up in court, then yes there might be a case. If Baez failed to comunicate with his client at all, never meeting with her, then yes there is a chance. if Baez never filed any motions or took appropriate steps to move her case forward or defend her, than yes maybe.

But

- The evidence is public from the word go because of the Sunshine laws. We see it all and deeply analyze it here. Anyone see anything glaringly exculpatory in there? Will anyone here be shocked or surprised when she is convicted? Would a different lawyer be able to interpret or use that evidence in such a manner as to insure a high probability of acquittal? if no then any IAC appeals are dead as soon as they look at them.

- Baez has certainly communicated with his client. We have hours of news footage of her going to his office for days at a time. Meeting with his client in jail at stressful points. Extensive jail logs of visits. Far more than any of us would expect or hope for from our lawyer should we ever face serious criminal charges.

- While Baez files tons of poorly referenced motions that we all get much amusement from, he is in fact filing motions and taking actions. Having a bad legal strategy is not an appeal able issue. Not winning the case is not the root reason for an appeal. He is creating a clear paper trail in the trial record of a steady stream of activity in support of his client. While some of his motions are laughable, there volume and presense is a sign that he is doing his job as required. Whether or not he is very good at his job is not something that the appeals court really cares about. Only that he is doing it. Stupidity is not appealable. Negligence is.

Now there is one little gotcha I can see on the horizon, given KC's history and her propensity to throw anyone under the bus in her own defense. I would not be surprised to see a claim slip out from KC, of a sexual relationship with JB, during that period when she was on bail and at his office every day. It's just too easy to pull off, and we know she already pulled this "sexual abuse" trigger on both her brother and her father. How that would play out would be anybodies guess at this point. (and please note I am NOT accusing JB of an inapropriate sexual relationship with his client. I am merely pointing out that his lying sociopath of a client has already pulled that charge on the men closest to her in her life, for her own purposes. So he should be expecting it at some point.) Regardless even if there was some charge of such a relationship or proof of it, they would still have to show that it had a gross impact on the trial outcome, or that a different outcome would have been likely given the evidence.

So in a word. She will file an IAC appeal, it will get a review or a hearing, and I think it will be immediately shot down.

Perfect post!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sleutherontheside]

I think this is one of my favorite threads because now everyone is really giving thought and consideration to factors, case law, examples, and using those when presenting a POV. Well done.......:clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[ZsaZsa]

Listen guys, no lawyer wants a finding of "ineffective assistance of counsel" on his or her record. When that happens, you are automatically reported to the bar and it is also public record that seriously hurts your reputation. JB has not been a lawyer long. He certainly wants to minimize how many times that happens to him.
The bottom line with JB is that he is very arrogant and very cocky and fancies himself much, much brighter than he is. That's a toxic combination.
But so far I have not seen anything (as an attorney myself - not criminal) that I think would lead to a successful appeal based on ineffective assistance. He may be bumbling but he can likely give valid reasons for all his legal tactics and the decisions he has made. And while I don't agree with his tactics or decisions, I haven't seen any motions or other courtroom procedures on his part that really screamed out to me: "Lordy, he is totally blowing it" and his client has a say. She has plenty of people around her who can advise her other than JB, like CM and earlier, AL, as well as her family. If she chooses not to listen that is her choice. She is there every time a motion is made and denied. She knows what's going on and how JB argues. He is a buffoon and I sometimes think she'd be better off with public counsel, but it's casey's choice to make. After all, she has no intellectual disability to impair her ability to assist in her own defense.

He already has one client suing him for ineffective counsel...
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/keyword/nilton
It's becoming a habit :innocent:

 

[gitana1]

Yeah, I heard about that but he certainly does not want another. I mean, my point is that lawyers don't purposefully bungle a case so that they can get their client off on appeal. That's professional suicide.
Also, a guy like JB, new lawyer taking cases he's learning on, rather than learning before he takes such cases, well, he's more likely than others to have a few of these claims against him but that doesn't mean he will be found to have been ineffective. I wouldn't want him as an attorney, that's for sure. I think he has badly bungled this case due to his arrogance. But, I don't think his bungling comes close to ineffectiveness. That's usually reserved for stuff like falling asleep during trial, refusing to present exculpatory evidence, etc.

 

[denjet]

Yeah, I heard about that but he certainly does not want another. I mean, my point is that lawyers don't purposefully bungle a case so that they can get their client off on appeal. That's professional suicide.
Also, a guy like JB, new lawyer taking cases he's learning on, rather than learning before he takes such cases, well, he's more likely than others to have a few of these claims against him but that doesn't mean he will be found to have been ineffective. I wouldn't want him as an attorney, that's for sure. I think he has badly bungled this case due to his arrogance. But, I don't think his bungling comes close to ineffectiveness. That's usually reserved for stuff like falling asleep during trial, refusing to present exculpatory evidence, etc.

ITA ... It's my belief that KC will never fire Jose because he's probably the ONLY one who's been telling her, and still continues to her, he can get her off !! I can see no other reason for her to stick with Jose who's telling her what she wants to hear ...

 

[ThinkTank]

Yeah, I heard about that but he certainly does not want another. I mean, my point is that lawyers don't purposefully bungle a case so that they can get their client off on appeal. That's professional suicide.
Also, a guy like JB, new lawyer taking cases he's learning on, rather than learning before he takes such cases, well, he's more likely than others to have a few of these claims against him but that doesn't mean he will be found to have been ineffective. I wouldn't want him as an attorney, that's for sure. I think he has badly bungled this case due to his arrogance. But, I don't think his bungling comes close to ineffectiveness. That's usually reserved for stuff like falling asleep during trial, refusing to present exculpatory evidence, etc.

I have a question please ..... I agree that JB may not have done enough wrong to be guilty of ineffective assistance of counsel, specifically. However, generally speaking, can a lawyer be removed from an active case/trial if the lawyer has been found to have committed felonies during their representation of a client? Even if the client does not complain? Would the powers that be, which govern lawyers, take the action to remove the lawyer, whether the client wants them to continue representing them, or not?

I think of what happened to attorney Macaluso - he is gone - he is not allowed to practice law.
I wonder if the clients who Mac was representing will be given a new trial because of his representation of them?

 

[faefrost]

I have a question please ..... I agree that JB may not have done enough wrong to be guilty of ineffective assistance of counsel, specifically. However, generally speaking, can a lawyer be removed from an active case/trial if the lawyer has been found to have committed felonies during their representation of a client? Even if the client does not complain? Would the powers that be, which govern lawyers, take the action to remove the lawyer, whether the client wants them to continue representing them, or not?

I think of what happened to attorney Macaluso - he is gone - he is not allowed to practice law.
I wonder if the clients who Mac was representing will be given a new trial because of his representation of them?

Probably not unless what he was found to be guilty of has a direct impact on the nature of their case or conviction. Those who he was representing will probably have their trial dates pushed back in order to secure new counsel and let them get up to speed.

I would imagine that the true nightmare is any cases that are actively at trial when the lawyer is arrested or disbarred. I mean what happens then?

 

[Cassata11]

Sad but true, when I see the words, ineffective counsel, I think of Mark Geragos. Can we make a wiki page just for him. Don't get me wrong, I am happy he was incompetent. Just like Scott Peterson, no one will care about Casey's appeal against JB once she is found guilty!

 

[The World According]

This is starting to be not even funny anymore. It really is a mess. I am not a charmed by Cheney Mason, but he is the only death penalty qualified lawyer left standing, so we will have to make do. Mr. Cheney cannot leave Mr. Baez alone again. That just cannot happen.
________________________________________
In this week's emergency hearing Casey's defense requested to see the evidence without the sheriff's office staff being in the room. What in the world? The sheriff's department will be called on to testify that the evidence was in their care, custody and control, always. Otherwise, it is not coming into trial. How could Jose hope the judge would allow such a ridiculous request? For starters, once again, he did not notice all of the parties, namely the OCSD. Jose made a rambling argument, wrong on the facts and wrong on the law, as usual. In my opinion it was a disaster; of biblical proportions. It was .....ineffective , alright.

Lots of heavy sighs could be heard from the Judge's microphone.

Mrs. Drane Burdick informed the court of a little detail Jose had left out. The state offered several times in the past to send the evidence or allow the defense expert to come to inspect the evidence, and the defense declined both!!!!
All the while they have been whining;to any media camera they could find this side of Canada, that they have never been able to review the evidence.


Raw Video of Hearing Part 1 of 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/24124701/index.html

Raw Video of Hearing Part 2 of 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/24125348/index.html


That negates the entire big ole bag of b s that the defense is spinning trying to claim they have been denied access.

Jose clearly has foolishly turned down these offers from the state. That to me is the most important thing we learned in the hearing. This is the exact same behavior as not obeying the judge’s order to go over and examine the TES records that have sat there in Mr. Nejmae’s office for eight months. This is the same behavior as saying they can’t get evidence from the body farm and Oak Ridge Labs, although they admit they have yet to take even one deposition from there. This is the exact same behavior as not picking up the tips. If you have two hundred seventy five thousand dollars, and you need these tips so desperately, how can you not afford to pay for them? This is the same behavior as not even deposing Mr. Miller while filing frivolous motion after frivolous motion regarding TES. This is the same behavior as telling the prosecutor, by his own admission, for a year now, that he wanted a special master for this, and then waiting to ask for a hearing on the matter as an emergency! This is the same behavior of complaining Casey cannot write a letter to her family, knowing he had been sneaking letters in and out of the jail for two years .He is the quintessential boy who cried wolf, in a suit, with matching kerchief.

Jose explained to the judge that the defense with their very narrowed request and working together certainly could make it work to examine the evidence without the supervision of the Sheriff’s deputies. Narrow request and working together , yes those were his buzz words for the day.
The judge asked if Jose had any Florida case law that was on point. No, he did not. Indeed the only example he was able to find was from a California trial which co counsel Linda Kenney Baden was on. Henry Lee was then, as he is now, a defense expert on the case. There was nearly an audible gasp from the gallery as if they were collectively thinking For the love of God, ...he cannot have just brought that to the judge's attention!!!!! Baez managed to get Linda Drane-Burdick to recite to the judge, and the local, national and international media, the fact that the expert Dr. Henry Lee must be guarded since one of his own defense team members reported to the judge in the Phil Spector case that indeed he tampered with/secreted evidence!!

Everyone in the legal community knows of what Henry Lee allegedly did in the Spector case!!!People in Rwanda know what Henry Lee allegedly did in the Phil Spector case!
With time and other good work I trust Dr. Lee hoped memories would fade. Instead Jose made it front page news again!! Can you imagine asking for something unprecedented and as an example you use a case that is the epitome of why this is just not done!!!! Whose side is he on?!!!

Right after this is where the Henry Lee has trained OCSD claim came out of Jose's mouth. I trust he does train and is capable of doing so , and that he did something wrong on the Spector case. The two are not mutually exclusive. I liken it to a star football player being accused of rape. Both could be true. As if the open court discussion of fowl play from years ago wasn’t bad enough….wait for it….it turns out there have been some shenanigans in this case centered around Dr. Lee. Mrs. Drane Burdick lets the judge know that when Henry Lee was in Florida to examine the car, the next morning the defense filed a request for sanctions, alleging wrongdoing that the state and sheriff's office secreted evidence from them ( evidence that had been sent to the lab ). She was kind not to mention that the very next night Dr. Lee was on TV discussing this case. We’ll come back to that.
Well after hearing the one to one hundred reasons why his motion should be denied, oddly proved up by Mr. Baez himself, the Judge made short order of this hearing. He ruled against the defense and even put them in a worse position. .I cannot stop laughing. This is going to last me well into the weekend!! Now they will have even more supervision, now the defense will be present, someone from the Sheriff’s Department....AND also a one of the prosecutors or someone from the State Attorney’s office will be present! Moreover, it will be videotaped.

Defense may discuss things in another room with no recordings. Oh that ought to be hysterical. Have you ever seen a heated mediation for a divorce where the two parties are so incredibly hostile, they are each in separate conference rooms and the lawyers walk back and forth, in and out of the conference room, to relay the latest offer, and the jump in a lake response for hours? This is what I am picturing, a bunch of mildly managed chaos.

People say simple minds are easily amused. Apparently that works on Casey. She is so fond of her lawyer.
This is soooo funny, the judge acts like he is throwing the defense a bone and helping them, by arranging for them to be in air conditioned environment. Much like the judge was generous ( Judge Strickland ) to Casey by not adjudicating her on half of the fourteen counts of fraud. Nevertheless...bottom line is the Sheriff deputies are still going to be there, and his client is going into her murder trial in front of the jury, a convicted felon.
Even so, he can sell it to starry eyed Casey that he won some concessions. She'll later write about how he kicked butt and took names.

It is not well advised for Baez to go solo at hearings. Why didn't Mrs. Kenney-Baden appear for the hearing at least by phone?
Baez is in over his head and in the words of Mr. Nejame "I am being overly generous in my characterization". Mr. Baez has no idea how long this type of examination of “voluminous” evidence is going to take. She would be in a much, much better position to make guesses about these matters since this is indeed her specialty. I can tell him as an onlooker, it is going to take days if not weeks.

If these experts are not allowed to actually test or examine anything, I sure hope they watched this hearing to understand what the judge ruled they may and may not do. Jose certainly has a poor understanding of it, if he is asking Linda to get him high tech equipment, etc. If the experts know that all they are doing is making lists and taking photos of what they see, that is one thing. It seems that is the state’s idea of what will happen, but Jose seemed to think they were going to be allowed to set up a little science lab and start testing. LOL!!!

Wear lab coat on the plane, have microscope...will travel!

Don't forget these are the folks he described as "Beyond the age of technology" when arguing using the secure server wasn't such a great idea afteral, and he wanted to switch to good old fashioned photos or CD s for the experts. I trust Mrs. Baden has done this work many, many times on her cases. I just cannot imagine....where was she today. I know where Jose was. He was hopelessly lost.

He was in way over his head just talking about the evidence. Imagine if he had the actual evidence in front of him. Absolutely, without question, they must be watched at all times, perhaps even for their own safety, so that no one gets any broken toes from them all stepping all over one another's feet, or egos. That was by far the funniest hearing yet. I laughed through the entire debacle!!!! Oh my God, you just can't make this stuff up!!!!

 

[The World According]

Sleuther in the 28 minute mark on part one of the recent hearing,

Raw Video of Hearing Part 1 of 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/24124701/index.html Jose informs the court that due to this emergent scheduling conflict, the defense is going to " Break Up The Team" so that he can be here with the evidence and experts and I assume Cheney will be with the Oakridge Lab folks doing their depositions. Mrs. Kenney-Baden one would think would be essential in both places, since this is what part she will be handling.


They have been jumping up and down for two years about the body farm and OakRidge Labs and how desperately they need that evidence. Now that they finally get to go to interview them (depose them ), Jose wont be there , and possibly Linda will not either?

In my opinion, this is not wise. What is more important is Jose cannot be the part of the team that handles this very important meeting with the experts for two days. I am not making fun, literally...he is not death penalty qualified. He has said repeatedly, this case is going to come down to forensics.

What is going on? They have waited two years, why not just say Jose was unavailable these two days in July and wait to reschedule with the experts. They are organizing four people to come, four. For goodness sake that is not impossible to synchronize. The judge's clerk does that all day!!

I am very concerned. The reason the rules require a death penalty lawyer to be on the case should be the reason they do not , as Jose calls it, "Split up the team", right?
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heYmcUdzqIE[/ame]

What made me aware of this was how ever mindful Judge Strickland was at the fraud trial to ask Jose to talk with Andrea, consult with your co counsel, he did that several times. He wanted it on the record that she was there, and had a chance to advise her client. Was that how you took it?

This reminds me , wasn't she supposed to make her statement before the judge sentenced her? Did Jose know that? I thought one gets to apologize or take responsibility to the judge and he can use his best judgment as to if that will affect his sentence. I could have a poor understanding, but I had never seen it done this way. He seems to be very unfamiliar with protocol in the court. I do not think he is waking up in the morning and thinking he will not put forth his very best. It appears to me he honestly does not know.

He left this hearing, after the judge just set out two minutes before that one of Miss Anthony's terms of probation was, of course that she have NO CONTACT with Amy, and he said to the reporters, she would love to hear from her friend, she needs her friend, ( or misses her friend ) and would love to correspond with her if Amy should ever wish it. That would be a clear and purposeful violation of the court's order, and her probation could be revoked. This was just one example , that was public, of how he advises her. Imagine what he leads her to think when alone in the room for a visit.

 

[The World According]

If Mr. Baez does the depositions on a wing and a prayer, rather that find out if the deponent has made any sworn statements in the case so far....is that ineffective? Would he have had other questions if he had just read the supplemental report?
. It concerns me that Cheney and Jose say things that are not at all correct, that do not even come close to the facts that are already released by the state in discovery. What in the world?
The defense knew in January of 2009, a year and a half ago about the LE interviewing Debbie P. It is in the supplemental report.This is not even funny anymore. Perhaps he can get Cindy to be a paralegal and do her homework and pull things from the discovery like she did in her civil deposition. Remember that when she was quoting from page eight , line nine of the narrative?
http://www.wftv.com/news/18530380/detail.html
I am shocked that he gets by with making these claims. Why don't we just call it what it is? IMO he lied to the judge, or he did not prepare for the depo, either would be unacceptable, imo. . If he would have read the detectives supplemental report, even if he had not ever seen a copy of the actual transcript, he had every right to request it from the state. I trust it would have been over the fax and on his desk within the hour. What the heck does he do to prepare for the depositions, nothing? Scroll to the bottom of the document and look at Yuri's signature and the date, December 2008, then we, the public had it in January, 2009!!! This is outrageous!!!!
Much preparation goes on before one sits down to depose someone and checking to see what statements they are on record saying to LE would be number one on the list, right? This is just lunacy.

This is just as bad as claiming that Joe Jordan's name was held back from the defense by TES or LE , when Joe Jordan's name was right there, at the top of the page ,mind you, in the documents of the 32 relevant searchers that Mark had hand- delivered to Jose!!!! He wastes the court's time and he wastes the county's money by not knowing what he is doing, or in the words of Mr. Nejame, "Sloppiness or laziness".

What I am asking is, since his allegations in his motions are baseless and get proven wrong in very short order, the rest of his argument falls on deaf ears and , imo, it affects the judge's rulings for his client, is that ineffective?
Problem with no LE statemtent- could be solved by one quick phone call to the prosecutor's office
Problem with the name of Mr. Jordan being cut off - could be solved by one phone call to Mark's office

So rather than two short phone calls, he files frivolous motions in very bad faith and calls for all out hearings on them. I don't get him at all. He is wasting his time too.

I wish an experienced lawyer like Richard Hornsby would replace him. He knows what he is doing. I want her to pay for what she has done, but I do want her to have a fair trial.

 

[faefrost]

Crazy question, but does anyone know or remember when we last heard from LKB? Has she been present either in person, or through the magic of the talking box, at any hearing in recent or not so recent memory? Has she even encountered HHJP?

It just strikes me as strange that she did not have any presense at that emergency hearing last week. I mean it was on a subject that was her area of expertise, and was based in at least part (badly albeit) on some of her prior case work. So where was she?

 

[autumnlover]

Crazy question, but does anyone know or remember when we last heard from LKB? Has she been present either in person, or through the magic of the talking box, at any hearing in recent or not so recent memory? Has she even encountered HHJP?

It just strikes me as strange that she did not have any presense at that emergency hearing last week. I mean it was on a subject that was her area of expertise, and was based in at least part (badly albeit) on some of her prior case work. So where was she?

I was wondering the same thing. In fact, has she been around since Casey was declared indigent?

 

[sleutherontheside]

TWA.....do you consider RH giving sooooooooooo many interviews about the case.....about KC......his personal thoughts.....sharing his wife's theory about what happened..........his blog..........

an issue?

IMO...if JB were to leave.....or CM were to leave.......would a fresh start with an attorney with no prior public comments regarding the case not be a better choice?

 

[Nore]

This is starting to be not even funny anymore. It really is a mess. Mr. Cheney cannot leave Mr. Baez alone again. That just cannot happen.
________________________________________
In this week's emergency hearing Casey's defense requested to see the evidence without the sheriff's office staff being in the room. For starters, once again, he did not notice all of the parties, namely the OCSD. Jose made a rambling argument, wrong on the facts and wrong on the law, as usual. In my opinion it was a disaster of biblical proportions. It was .....ineffective , alright.

Lots of heavy sighs could be heard from the Judge's microphone.

Mrs. Drane Burdick informed the court of a little detail Jose had left out. The state offered several times in the past to send the evidence or allow the defense expert to come to inspect the evidence, and the defense declined both!!!!
All the while they have been whining;to any media camera they could find this side of Canada, that they have never been able to review the evidence.


Raw Video of Hearing Part 1 of 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/24124701/index.html

Raw Video of Hearing Part 2 of 2: http://www.wftv.com/video/24125348/index.html


That negates the entire big ole bag of b s that the defense is spinning trying to claim they have been denied access.

Jose clearly has foolishly turned down these offers from the state. That to me is the most important thing we learned in the hearing. This is the exact same behavior as not obeying the judge’s order to go over and examine the TES records that have sat there in Mr. Nejmae’s office for eight months. This is the same behavior as saying they can’t get evidence from the body farm and Oak Ridge Labs, although they admit they have yet to take even one deposition from there. This is the exact same behavior as not picking up the tips. If you have two hundred seventy five thousand dollars, and you need these tips so desperately, how can you not afford to pay for them? This is the same behavior as not even deposing Mr. Miller while filing frivolous motion after frivolous motion regarding TES. This is the same behavior as telling the prosecutor, by his own admission, for a year now, that he wanted a special master for this, and then waiting to ask for a hearing on the matter as an emergency! This is the same behavior of complaining Casey cannot write a letter to her family, knowing he had been sneaking letters in and out of the jail for two years .He is the quintessential boy who cried wolf, in a suit, with matching kerchief.

Jose explained to the judge that the defense with their very narrowed request and working together certainly could make it work to examine the evidence without the supervision of the Sheriff’s deputies. Narrow request and working together , yes those were his buzz words for the day.
The judge asked if Jose had any Florida case law that was on point. No, he did not. Indeed the only example he was able to find was from a California trial which co counsel Linda Kenney Baden was on. Henry Lee was then, as he is now, a defense expert on the case. There was nearly an audible gasp from the gallery as if they were collectively thinking For the love of God, ...he cannot have just brought that to the judge's attention!!!!! Baez managed to get Linda Drane-Burdick to recite to the judge, and the local, national and international media, the fact that the expert Dr. Henry Lee must be guarded since one of his own defense team members reported to the judge in the Phil Spector case that indeed he tampered with/secreted evidence!!

Everyone in the legal community knows of what Henry Lee allegedly did in the Spector case!!!People in Rwanda know what Henry Lee allegedly did in the Phil Spector case!
With time and other good work I trust Dr. Lee hoped memories would fade. Instead Jose made it front page news again!! Can you imagine asking for something unprecedented and as an example you use a case that is the epitome of why this is just not done!!!! Whose side is he on?!!!

Right after this is where the Henry Lee has trained OCSD claim came out of Jose's mouth. I trust he does train and is capable of doing so , and that he did something wrong on the Spector case. The two are not mutually exclusive. I liken it to a star football player being accused of rape. Both could be true. As if the open court discussion of fowl play from years ago wasn’t bad enough….wait for it….it turns out there have been some shenanigans in this case centered around Dr. Lee. Mrs. Drane Burdick lets the judge know that when Henry Lee was in Florida to examine the car, the next morning the defense filed a request for sanctions, alleging wrongdoing that the state and sheriff's office secreted evidence from them ( evidence that had been sent to the lab ). She was kind not to mention that the very next night Dr. Lee was on TV discussing this case. We’ll come back to that.
Well after hearing the one to one hundred reasons why his motion should be denied, oddly proved up by Mr. Baez himself, the Judge made short order of this hearing. He ruled against the defense and even put them in a worse position. .I cannot stop laughing. This is going to last me well into the weekend!! Now they will have even more supervision, now the defense will be present, someone from the Sheriff’s Department....AND also a one of the prosecutors or someone from the State Attorney’s office will be present! Moreover, it will be videotaped.

Defense may discuss things in another room with no recordings. Oh that ought to be hysterical. Have you ever seen a heated mediation for a divorce where the two parties are so incredibly hostile, they are each in separate conference rooms and the lawyers walk back and forth, in and out of the conference room, to relay the latest offer, and the jump in a lake response for hours? This is what I am picturing, a bunch of mildly managed chaos.

People say simple minds are easily amused. Apparently that works on Casey. She is so fond of her lawyer.
This is soooo funny, the judge acts like he is throwing the defense a bone and helping them, by arranging for them to be in air conditioned environment. Much like the judge was generous ( Judge Strickland ) to Casey by not adjudicating her on half of the fourteen counts of fraud. Nevertheless...bottom line is the Sheriff deputies are still going to be there, and his client is going into her murder trial in front of the jury, a convicted felon.
Even so, he can sell it to starry eyed Casey that he won some concessions. She'll later write about how he kicked butt and took names.

It is not well advised for Baez to go solo at hearings. Why didn't Mrs. Kenney-Baden appear for the hearing at least by phone?
Baez is in over his head and in the words of Mr. Nejame "I am being overly generous in my characterization". Mr. Baez has no idea how long this type of examination of “voluminous” evidence is going to take. She would be in a much, much better position to make guesses about these matters since this is indeed her specialty. I can tell him as an onlooker, it is going to take days if not weeks.

If these experts are not allowed to actually test or examine anything, I sure hope they watched this hearing to understand what the judge ruled they may and may not do. Jose certainly has a poor understanding of it, if he is asking Linda to get him high tech equipment, etc. If the experts know that all they are doing is making lists and taking photos of what they see, that is one thing. It seems that is the state’s idea of what will happen, but Jose seemed to think they were going to be allowed to set up a little science lab and start testing. LOL!!!

Wear lab coat on the plane, have microscope...will travel!

Don't forget these are the folks he described as "Beyond the age of technology" when arguing using the secure server wasn't such a great idea afteral, and he wanted to switch to good old fashioned photos or CD s for the experts. I trust Mrs. Baden has done this work many, many times on her cases. I just cannot imagine....where was she today. I know where Jose was. He was hopelessly lost.

He was in way over his head just talking about the evidence. Imagine if he had the actual evidence in front of him. Absolutely, without question, they must be watched at all times, perhaps even for their own safety, so that no one gets any broken toes from them all stepping all over one another's feet, or egos. That was by far the funniest hearing we have seen yet. I laughed through the entire debacle!!!! Oh my God, you just can't make this stuff up!!!!

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Bravo twa..this is the best explaination I have ever read.I feel sorry for HHJP. he has to keep a straight face and anger in tow at the same time..

 

[The World According]

TWA.....do you consider RH giving sooooooooooo many interviews about the case.....about KC......his personal thoughts.....sharing his wife's theory about what happened..........his blog..........

an issue?

IMO...if JB were to leave.....or CM were to leave.......would a fresh start with an attorney with no prior public comments regarding the case not be a better choice?

Yes, my good buddy, but I do not know of one. They have basically all opined that it is a freak show. Hornsby, if I am understanding all of his quotes correctly, would not join this team for anything, especially if Jose were to remain. At one time , he said on here , Jose is a moron, that is both my personal and professional opinion. ( mods...those are his words, not mine )

View attachment Hornsby quotes re casey anthony trial - Jullia V.doc I compiled many of Mr. Hornsby's quotes from this case, from his q and a thread.

Here is one "Call any Criminal Lawyer in Orlando and pretend you are looking for a lawyer, mention my name. 75% will tell you I am an A$$; zero percent will tell you I am dishonest or I don't know what I am saying."


Here is another "
Question, why do you think Baez did not seek a plea deal?
RH:” Ego.”

9-27-09
On will there be a COV
RH: “I have reviewed most of the discovery.

I believe that they they will pick a jury in another county and then try the case here in Orange County and sequester the jury during the trial.

The reason being is that there are over 275 listed witnesses for the state, all the physical evidence is here, etc.

So from a financial standpoint, what would be cheaper? Put 12 people up in a hotel for two months; or put hundreds of people up in a hotel in some other county for two months.

You can't.”

 

[The World According]

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Bravo twa..this is the best explaination I have ever read.I feel sorry for HHJP. he has to keep a straight face and anger in tow at the same time..

Thank you Nore! I laugh so loud my co workers think I am having a party in my office, when I have the hearing on in the background. How he keeps a straight face is the eighth wonder of the world.

 

[beach]

Crazy question, but does anyone know or remember when we last heard from LKB? Has she been present either in person, or through the magic of the talking box, at any hearing in recent or not so recent memory? Has she even encountered HHJP?

It just strikes me as strange that she did not have any presense at that emergency hearing last week. I mean it was on a subject that was her area of expertise, and was based in at least part (badly albeit) on some of her prior case work. So where was she?

I think LKB is just keeping as low a profile as possible. If I were her, I would be. I would not want my name constantly tossed around in the same breath as the rest of this team.

I think we will be hearing more about her very soon. I am anxious to see how she is going to spread herself so thin with all these forensic depos (Oakridge Labs, etc.) and the upcoming inspection. She SHOULD be at both, IMO. But, if I recall the calendar correctly, they are scheduled for the same days. (I know LDB referenced the defense scheduling the inspection for the same days that they knew Jeff Ashton would be in TN for the depo) :waitasec: If that is the case, she will pretty much HAVE to conduct the depo of Dr. Vaas... That will leave JB and CM to accompany the other experts at the inspection.

:shakehead: