Found Deceased MN - Alayna Ertl, 5, Watkins, 20 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

[Inthedetails]

Excellent post! This is how it is done. Kids don't say anything because they don't know what it means until it goes too far and by then they feel guilty and part of the "secret". Like they have done something wrong. There must be something wrong with them. Very sad.

And the thing is, the "grooming" that the perps do can feel GOOD. They give attention and the touches might actually feel nice (even if creepy at the same time). A stroke, a squeeze, a hug, even rubbing in private places....it's extremely difficult for kids to realize that something that doesn't hurt and is done by someone saying nice things is something they have the right to resist. That's what messes with their minds, imo. The perp isn't a mean person who hurts them, at least not at first - when it's a family friend or relative. And it's so hard to tattle on someone your parents like.

Grr....makes me so mad!

I remember sitting on my uncle's lap and he gave me a quarter for letting him kiss me - it felt really weird and when my mom noticed, she quickly put an end to it. I felt sooooo uncomfortable by my uncle, but also uncomfortable by my mom's reaction (though she was 100% right). I didn't want ANY of that attention and if he had done something again, I probably would've put up with it in order to avoid upsetting my mom. Thankfully, that never happened again, whether it was because I stayed far away from him or he stayed away from me, I don't know.

Yes, we do need to keep an eye on everything - we're the grown ups and that's our job.

But, also, the perps are sneaky and determined. They are 100% responsible for the crimes they commit, of course.

 

[Inthedetails]

Court Records Show Anderson's Dark Side

KARE 11

( Sent from http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/court-records-shows-andersons-dark-side/307490120 )

From the article:
"And he's like, "Just let me in." And he was pushing his face in the door and trying to push the door open. And I'm like, "No, you're not coming in, and you're going home right now. This is ridiculous.' And he's like, 'Just let me in, I'm going to *advertiser censored** you.' And I'm like, 'No, you're not.' And he's like, 'You know you want to *advertiser censored** me.' I just kind of laughed it off a little bit and was like, 'Yeah, I don't think so," the woman said.

Oh yeah, that is super creepy.

So this case is not something out of the blue for him.

jmo

 

[NewMama]

Oh yeah, that is super creepy.

So this case is not something out of the blue for him.

jmo

As early as 16. My goodness.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[human]

Court Records Show Anderson's Dark Side

KARE 11

( Sent from http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/court-records-shows-andersons-dark-side/307490120 )

From the article:
"And he's like, "Just let me in." And he was pushing his face in the door and trying to push the door open. And I'm like, "No, you're not coming in, and you're going home right now. This is ridiculous.' And he's like, 'Just let me in, I'm going to *advertiser censored** you.' And I'm like, 'No, you're not.' And he's like, 'You know you want to *advertiser censored** me.' I just kind of laughed it off a little bit and was like, 'Yeah, I don't think so," the woman said.

Aah. Things are coming out.

 

[Knox]

Thanks dogface, the therapy program in Germany is interesting.

I like the "idea" of a program such as this. But I can't bend my head around the complete confidentiality aspect. In example; if a participant was actively and/or had previously sexually abused a child, the therapist could not report to LE?

Catch 22, if there is not complete confidentiality there would be no willing participants.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I read it and to tell you the truth, it made me sick. I guess these guys are sincere. Then I wonder if they meet up and conspire for nefarious deeds.

I have such negative feelings about people who have attractions to children

Wholeheartedly agree!!!! They form a sick, perverted little club where they can compare notes, under the guise of "accountability". Makes me want to puke. I am such an empathetic person ... but I feel for the KIDS, not the sickos. You are like the five people you spend the most time with. Who you run with is who you become. I truly believe that the only way to keep them from offending is to kill them after the first offense. The Bible has very stern warnings for people who hurt / offend children.

 

[Dogface]

Thanks dogface, the therapy program in Germany is interesting.

I like the "idea" of a program such as this. But I can't bend my head around the complete confidentiality aspect. In example; if a participant was actively and/or had previously sexually abused a child, the therapist could not report to LE?

Catch 22, if there is not complete confidentiality there would be no willing participants.

Yeah, it's a predicament because in no way do I think an offender be able to confess to someone and not be held accountable with great repercussions. On the other hand, if someone is having these thoughts, and haven't acted on them, they need to be able to get help.

I don't like the idea of just hoping to catch an offender afterwards. I want there to be a way to stop them before they escalate from thoughts to actions.

What's interesting is from that article, and many others, they know what they feel is wrong. Someone who knows its wrong is someone who, I believe if caught early, could be prevented from ever acting on their thoughts.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Yeah, it's a predicament because in no way do I think an offender be able to confess to someone and not be held accountable with great repercussions. On the other hand, if someone is having these thoughts, and haven't acted on them, they need to be able to get help.

I don't like the idea of just hoping to catch an offender afterwards. I want there to be a way to stop them before they escalate from thoughts to actions.

What's interesting is from that article, and many others, they know what they feel is wrong. Someone who knows its wrong is someone who, I believe if caught early, could be prevented from ever acting on their thoughts.

They are all bad news, clearly. But I think the ones we really need to worry about are those who don't think it's wrong, or know it's wrong and don't care. Some of them are just plain evil through and through.

ETA: That said, we all have thoughts about wrong things, we all have decisions and choices to make every day of our lives, we all have failures and shortcomings, we have all done things we regret. The thought life and pattern is key. Followed by impulse control. Followed then by a DESIRE to do right. Some of these people, many of them I think, do not want to do right, they want to do what feels good to them. Whether it is stealing, killing, or the myriad forms of sexual perversion against anyone, it is rooted in narcissism and sociopathy / psychopathy and selfishness. There really are people who do these things because they absolutely enjoy them, see nothing wrong with it and have no intention of stopping.

 

[MsMarple]

Court Records Show Anderson's Dark Side

KARE 11

( Sent from http://www.kare11.com/news/crime/court-records-shows-andersons-dark-side/307490120 )

From the article:
"And he's like, "Just let me in." And he was pushing his face in the door and trying to push the door open. And I'm like, "No, you're not coming in, and you're going home right now. This is ridiculous.' And he's like, 'Just let me in, I'm going to *advertiser censored** you.' And I'm like, 'No, you're not.' And he's like, 'You know you want to *advertiser censored** me.' I just kind of laughed it off a little bit and was like, 'Yeah, I don't think so," the woman said.

Thanks for the link, Damarna! I see at the end of the article:

If convicted on the kidnapping and murder charges in this week's case, he'd face up to 40 years in prison. If indicted by a grand jury of first-degree murder, then the maximum penalty if found guilty rises to life in prison.

A lightbulb went off - duh, like many other states, Minnesota requires an indictment from the Grand Jury to bring first-degree murder charges. That answers my question as to why Anderson is only charged with second-degree intentional homicide for now. We may very well see the charge upped in the future.

 

[Safeguard]

Wholeheartedly agree!!!! They form a sick, perverted little club where they can compare notes, under the guise of "accountability". Makes me want to puke. I am such an empathetic person ... but I feel for the KIDS, not the sickos. You are like the five people you spend the most time with. Who you run with is who you become. I truly believe that the only way to keep them from offending is to kill them after the first offense. The Bible has very stern warnings for people who hurt / offend children.

I must admit, I laughed out loud when I read your post! (No offense intended, I assure you!). I could just *see* you cringing, and I felt exactly the same when I read about that program...They're like cockroaches! If you see one, you kill it! You don't put them all in a room together! (For God's sake, those things reproduce!).

I realize that was a knee-jerk reaction on my part. But I have seen a lot of programs (youth drug offenders, AA and what not), and yes they do "network" in the rooms. Many who come of their own accord, do so, not because they want help. They want to hook up. They come looking for a Partner In Crime. Often they are very manipulative of those they see as useful to them, and these "friendships" can be extremely dangerous. Yes I would worry about that aspect of such programs, on the other hand, something should be available for people to get help... Let's say a parent discovers their teen has such tendencies, or an individual is tormented by these urges, but desperately wants to be a good person, what do these folks do?

Yes. I do think something should be in place, but perhaps private interventions would be more fitting.

Of course those who really want a partner for their dark deeds, could find one, but why make it easier by having a group of them available?

 

[MsMarple]

More info coming out:

Dad Matt Ertl and Zac Anderson arrived together at Riverside Tavern in Forest City on Friday night around 10:30 p.m.

They came after a softball game. The team, The River Rats, is sponsored by the bar. Matt and Zac are regulars on Friday nights after softball.

On Aug. 19, they played the jukebox and hung out. Zac had two beers in about two hours. He paid in cash. The bar closes at 1 a.m., and that is when they left. The two had a driver.

From there, the group arrived at Gordie’s Bar in Watkins around 1:30 a.m., just blocks from the Ertl home. Alayna’s mom, Kayla, was also there.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/08/24/ertl-murder-timeline/

More at the link. It seems like ZA undergoes an ugly personality change when he drinks alcohol - or maybe I should say an even uglier change since he already had something rotting in his core to begin with. He drank a lot that night. Ugh. How the heck could Alayna's parents have forseen the monster hiding inside of ZA? It chills me to the bone.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I must admit, I laughed out loud when I read your post! (No offense intended, I assure you!). I could just *see* you cringing, and I felt exactly the same when I read about that program...The're like cockroaches! If you see one, you kill it! You don't put them all in a room together! (For God's sake, those things reproduce!).

I realize that was a knee-jerk reaction on my part. But I have seen a lot of programs (youth drug offenders, AA and what not), and yes they do "network" in the rooms. Many who come of their own accord, do so, not because they want help. They want to hook up. They come looking for a Partner In Crime. Often they are very manipulative of those they see as useful to them, and these "friendships" can be extremely dangerous. Yes I would worry about that aspect of such programs, on the other hand, something should be available for people to get help... Let's say a parent discovers their teen has such tendencies, or not individual is tormented by these urges, but desperately wants to be a good person, what do these folks do?

Yes. I do think something should be in place, but perhaps privateinterventions would be more fitting.

Of course those who really want a partner for their dark deeds, could find one, but why make it easier by having a group of them available?

I can think of only one excellent reason to have them all ... and I mean ALL ... gathered together in one place for a "meeting".
Or is that too violent?

 

[Inthedetails]

I must admit, I laughed out loud when I read your post! (No offense intended, I assure you!). I could just *see* you cringing, and I felt exactly the same when I read about that program...They're like cockroaches! If you see one, you kill it! You don't put them all in a room together! (For God's sake, those things reproduce!).

I realize that was a knee-jerk reaction on my part. But I have seen a lot of programs (youth drug offenders, AA and what not), and yes they do "network" in the rooms. Many who come of their own accord, do so, not because they want help. They want to hook up. They come looking for a Partner In Crime. Often they are very manipulative of those they see as useful to them, and these "friendships" can be extremely dangerous. Yes I would worry about that aspect of such programs, on the other hand, something should be available for people to get help... Let's say a parent discovers their teen has such tendencies, or an individual is tormented by these urges, but desperately wants to be a good person, what do these folks do?

Yes. I do think something should be in place, but perhaps privateinterventions would be more fitting.

Of course those who really want a partner for their dark deeds, could find one, but why make it easier by having a group of them available?

Bingo!

I have a friend who was sent to a similar place as a teen (not for pedaphiles), and she said it was HEAVEN because it was so easy to hook up because everyone there was into the same thing. She came out better prepared as a criminal.

She has since straightened her life around completely, and her stories of the experience are hilarious....while at the same time very frustrating because the program obviously had the exact opposite result as what was intended.

 

[katydid23]

More info coming out:

Dad Matt Ertl and Zac Anderson arrived together at Riverside Tavern in Forest City on Friday night around 10:30 p.m.

They came after a softball game. The team, The River Rats, is sponsored by the bar. Matt and Zac are regulars on Friday nights after softball.

On Aug. 19, they played the jukebox and hung out. Zac had two beers in about two hours. He paid in cash. The bar closes at 1 a.m., and that is when they left. The two had a driver.

From there, the group arrived at Gordie’s Bar in Watkins around 1:30 a.m., just blocks from the Ertl home. Alayna’s mom, Kayla, was also there.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/08/24/ertl-murder-timeline/

More at the link. It seems like ZA undergoes an ugly personality change when he drinks alcohol - or maybe I should say an even uglier change since he already had something rotting in his core to begin with. He drank a lot that night. Ugh. How the heck could Alayna's parents have forseen the monster hiding inside of ZA? It chills me to the
bone.

Two beers in two hours? That does not seem like heavy drinking. Was he doing drugs along with it? Two beers in two hours seems very light.


EDIT:

"Zac bought the Ertls a beer or two. He drank Vodka Red Bulls. The bar only takes cash. They joked around and told stories."

[Why drink Red Bulls at 2 am?]



"Zac talked about how he loves to hunt at his family cabin, the same cabin where police later found him, and discovered Alayna’s body."

[ UGGHHHH]


"The group ordered a pizza and took it to go. The bar closed at 2 a.m., "---

"Matt Ertl got home around 2:30 a.m."

"Zac arrived between 3:30 a.m. and 3:45 a.m. He and Matt talked until about 4 a.m., when Matt “retired for the evening.”


[ So where did Zac go from 2:30 to 3:30?----they had a Pizza to go, so he didn't need to go out and eat. Did he go score some drugs? ]

 

[Inthedetails]

Two beers in two hours? That does not seem like heavy drinking. Was he doing drugs along with it? Two beers in two hours seems very light.


EDIT:

"Zac bought the Ertls a beer or two. He drank Vodka Red Bulls. The bar only takes cash. They joked around and told stories."

[Why drink Red Bulls at 2 am?]



"Zac talked about how he loves to hunt at his family cabin, the same cabin where police later found him, and discovered Alayna’s body."

[ UGGHHHH]


"The group ordered a pizza and took it to go. The bar closed at 2 a.m., "---

"Matt Ertl got home around 2:30 a.m."

"Zac arrived between 3:30 a.m. and 3:45 a.m. He and Matt talked until about 4 a.m., when Matt “retired for the evening.”


[ So where did Zac go from 2:30 to 3:30?----they had a Pizza to go, so he didn't need to go out and eat. Did he go score some drugs? ]

I'm curious where he went for an hour too. Any strip clubs in that town that might be open late? Did he try to hook up with anyone somewhere and it didn't work? Drugs are a possibility too, though he seems like a drunk to me more than a druggie. Knowing a bit more about him, did he go on a voyeuring hunt, looking in windows or stalking?? Total speculation!

He did SOMETHING for an hour or so, which is a long time considering the second bar they went to was only a couple of blocks from the house.

jmo

 

[NewMama]

More info coming out:

Dad Matt Ertl and Zac Anderson arrived together at Riverside Tavern in Forest City on Friday night around 10:30 p.m.

They came after a softball game. The team, The River Rats, is sponsored by the bar. Matt and Zac are regulars on Friday nights after softball.

On Aug. 19, they played the jukebox and hung out. Zac had two beers in about two hours. He paid in cash. The bar closes at 1 a.m., and that is when they left. The two had a driver.

From there, the group arrived at Gordie’s Bar in Watkins around 1:30 a.m., just blocks from the Ertl home. Alayna’s mom, Kayla, was also there.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/08/24/ertl-murder-timeline/

More at the link. It seems like ZA undergoes an ugly personality change when he drinks alcohol - or maybe I should say an even uglier change since he already had something rotting in his core to begin with. He drank a lot that night. Ugh. How the heck could Alayna's parents have forseen the monster hiding inside of ZA? It chills me to the bone.

So they had a driver take them to the 2nd bar. How did ZA get back to the house? This might explain why he took Matt's truck - if he left his car somewhere or never even drive at all that night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ninij9]

More info coming out:

Dad Matt Ertl and Zac Anderson arrived together at Riverside Tavern in Forest City on Friday night around 10:30 p.m.

They came after a softball game. The team, The River Rats, is sponsored by the bar. Matt and Zac are regulars on Friday nights after softball.

On Aug. 19, they played the jukebox and hung out. Zac had two beers in about two hours. He paid in cash. The bar closes at 1 a.m., and that is when they left. The two had a driver.

From there, the group arrived at Gordie’s Bar in Watkins around 1:30 a.m., just blocks from the Ertl home. Alayna’s mom, Kayla, was also there.

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2016/08/24/ertl-murder-timeline/

More at the link. It seems like ZA undergoes an ugly personality change when he drinks alcohol - or maybe I should say an even uglier change since he already had something rotting in his core to begin with. He drank a lot that night. Ugh. How the heck could Alayna's parents have forseen the monster hiding inside of ZA? It chills me to the bone.

I didn't see the part about Alana having a babysitter. Please tell me she had a baby sitter.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[Knox]

They are all bad news, clearly. But I think the ones we really need to worry about are those who don't think it's wrong, or know it's wrong and don't care. Some of them are just plain evil through and through.

ETA: That said, we all have thoughts about wrong things, we all have decisions and choices to make every day of our lives, we all have failures and shortcomings, we have all done things we regret. The thought life and pattern is key. Followed by impulse control. Followed then by a DESIRE to do right. Some of these people, many of them I think, do not want to do right, they want to do what feels good to them. Whether it is stealing, killing, or the myriad forms of sexual perversion against anyone, it is rooted in narcissism and sociopathy / psychopathy and selfishness. There really are people who do these things because they absolutely enjoy them, see nothing wrong with it and have no intention of stopping.

Agree with all you said above. The German article mentioned something key ... impulse control. Wouldn't it be great if counting down from 100 by 7's really worked?

 

[Paulas88]

Agree with all you said above. The German article mentioned something key ... impulse control. Wouldn't it be great if counting down from 100 by 7's really worked?

And the impulse control wouldn't work if they're drinking or doing drugs, right.

 

[Knox]

Two beers in two hours? That does not seem like heavy drinking. Was he doing drugs along with it? Two beers in two hours seems very light.


EDIT:

"Zac bought the Ertls a beer or two. He drank Vodka Red Bulls. The bar only takes cash. They joked around and told stories."

[Why drink Red Bulls at 2 am?]



"Zac talked about how he loves to hunt at his family cabin, the same cabin where police later found him, and discovered Alayna’s body."

[ UGGHHHH]


"The group ordered a pizza and took it to go. The bar closed at 2 a.m., "---

"Matt Ertl got home around 2:30 a.m."

"Zac arrived between 3:30 a.m. and 3:45 a.m. He and Matt talked until about 4 a.m., when Matt “retired for the evening.”


[ So where did Zac go from 2:30 to 3:30?----they had a Pizza to go, so he didn't need to go out and eat. Did he go score some drugs? ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Zac was said not to have a vehicle. Meaning just that night, or does he not own a vehicle period? The second bar was not far from the Ertle home. Maybe he walked? Who knows, there are still gaps in the story which make no sense.