Found Deceased MN - Alayna Ertl, 5, Watkins, 20 Aug 2016 *Arrest*

[human]

Any chance we can get a 6'-0 piece of rope into his cell ?

He'll fix what ails him, we won't need to do anything else.

I fail to see the reasoning behind keeping someone like this alive, much less possibly being released some day.

I agree that there really is no point. But, jails etc are supposed to keep prisoners safe. If they don't they are subject to lawsuits.

He is not guilty at this point. He is not guilty until he is found so by a court, He is in jail where he does have a lot more rights than in prison.

Truly, what do we do with people like him. Obviously, some people feel differently about sex offenders or there would not have been that big lawsuit that the offenders won.

They cost a tremendous amount of money and what can they contribute? They destroy people's lives.

 

[JanetElaine]

My guess is little one came down from upstairs in the wee hours and fat boy was there on the couch. Everyone else was sound asleep. The fact that he was still awake after playing softball in his rotund shape, in the summer heat, drinking until 2-3 in the morning and still awake enough to sit and visit? Sounds like meth to me. The average person would have been sound asleep.

As far as stopping these people before they are formed, (I hesitate to state 'men' because remember Sandra Renee Cantu; killed by a woman), my opinion is there is not a way to do this as of yet. I don't think we have the medical or psychological tools needed to stop their formation.

But what we do have is the ability to PREVENT it. All of these people that do these things share one common trait and that is they are predators. It's as simple as that. Letting your 5 year old go out and explore the block alone because she 'should' be able to is the wrong mindset. We need to wake up as a society and understand the inner workings of a predator.

Do not let your child be alone with people. PERIOD. If some friend of yours or neighbor or relative is telling you to let them take your child and you resist and then they make you feel foolish about it or pressure you to do it anyway STAY AWAY FROM THAT PERSON. Particularly a man. Any man that insists on watching the kids so you can have a little 'me time', insists on taking the kids camping, to the park, away from you, this person needs to be blocked from those activities.

Any person that likes to 'connect' with your kids and play on the floor, tickle fests, touching, tickling, wrestling that type of thing they need to be watched and never left alone with your children.

The INSTANT you have that little, tiny, distant thought go through your brain, "Oh he would never do that" is the time you need to act.

People who constantly like to broach that intimate fine line are the most dangerous of all and I'm here to tell you it's your relatives that are on the front line of all of this.

Sitting at your Thanksgiving table are probably some of the most dangerous, vile creatures you will ever have to encounter and that right there is the sad fact. ESPECIALLY the ones that continually are trying to ingratiate themselves. "Oh let her call me Uncle I like it." "Are you daddy's little girl? Are you a daddy's girl? Come see what Uncle has for you in his coat pocket."

I've lived it. It has to stop. It stops by saying no.

This post deserves a standing ovation. It is MOST important to understand this. People who do 'these things' blend in like this - you will not be able to pick them out of a crowd. They look and act like all of us so you HAVE to be aware of the little red flags they throw up, and NOT ignore your gut feeling. Don't leave your kids alone with people that you even have the tiniest frown about. So what if people think you're 'overprotective'... Actually, be aware of those who say you are, too. Not saying these people will all personally assault a child, but you also have to be aware of the throng of enablers a predator ALWAYS has around them.

Again, great post, IBsleuthin.

 

[dogmatica]

I have no link, but that is not necessarily true in Minnesota. I know of a convicted, multiple felony, child sex offender who was tossed right in with the rest of them.

My understanding was that until an incident happens to warrant their 'protection' they go in with the rest.

I really, really hope you're right. But my guess would be, if this guy was thrown into GP, he'd be dead before he ate his first meal.

 

[IBsleuthin]

This post deserves a standing ovation. It is MOST important to understand this. People who do 'these things' blend in like this - you will not be able to pick them out of a crowd. They look and act like all of us so you HAVE to be aware of the little red flags they throw up, and NOT ignore your gut feeling. Don't leave your kids alone with people that you even have the tiniest frown about. So what if people think you're 'overprotective'... Actually, be aware of those who say you are, too. Not saying these people will all personally assault a child, but you also have to be aware of the throng of enablers a predator ALWAYS has around them.

Again, great post, IBsleuthin.

Thank you beyond words. I am passionate about this subject probably more than any other subject. The amount of energy spent after the fact needs to be re-assigned to before it happens.

Survivors often go on to lead broken lives, the ripple effect cannot be understated.

 

[lisette]

Wondering why name is still being used in Thread Title instead of initials since sexual assault was indicated? Is that because she is deceased? Is that just done if the victim survives? Just wondering how that works....

 

[0101ABA]

Wondering why name is still being used in Thread Title instead of initials since sexual assault was indicated? Is that because she is deceased? Is that just done if the victim survives? Just wondering how that works....

You are correct. Surviving victims need to be protected. Since Alayna is no longer here on earth, her name can stay

 

[Safeguard]

I agree with you!!! I think my previous comment got lost with this.
Just to give you a little context, there are half dozen to a dozen trolls who are posting vile comments on the news articles locally, on the news sites and on Facebook. Then there are just regular people who are saying bad things about the mother.
The trolls and these harsh people are responding to ACTUAL family members and friends and neighbors.
While I don't think the trolls can be stopped, I thought maybe it could help a little by releasing a little more information about what happened.

Myself and others were trying to help by saying that it didn't matter what time the girl went to bed, and things like that, but that didn't stop some people.

I have noticed that it has helped some that it has been released that the girl fell asleep on a couch and she was moved to her bed.

I'm sorry if it appeared that I was one of the people who was among this group of people who was attacking the family and friends. Right now, I am trying to do whatever I can to protect them.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

No it didn't, at all look like you were "parent bashing"! I read your post as compassionate! Sorry for any misunderstanding!

I was moved by the fact that you felt the need to defend mom. It's just tragic, that people would add "insult to injury" at such a painful time for these parents.

(People even did that to the toddler, (Lane), killed on his Disney vacation and it was only like 9pm! Cruel!).

I will never get used to people who feel they need to "Twist the Knife" and emotionaly torture grieving familys!

 

[Cyberburn]

No it didn't, at all look like you were "parent bashing"! I read your post as compassionate! Sorry for any misunderstanding!

I was moved by the fact that you felt the need to defend mom. It's just tragic, that people would add "insult to injury" at such a painful time for these parents.

(People even did that to the toddler, (Lane), killed on his Disney vacation and it was only like 9pm! Cruel!).

I will never get used to people who feel they need to "Twist the Knife" and emotionaly torture grieving familys!

Ok good.
This one person on Facebook who keeps commenting terrible things on my local news media article posts has me ready to go to the fast food place were he works to speak to him face to face.
I just really want to know why he is doing this. I think some people think is ok to post anything they want online, and truly do not understand that their words do hurt people.
What happened to this child is not funny. Typing words that get people upset and react to your comments is not ok.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[TTF14]

Ok good.
This one person on Facebook who keeps commenting terrible things on my local news media article posts has me ready to go to the fast food place were he works to speak to him face to face.
I just really want to know why he is doing this. I think some people think is ok to post anything they want online, and truly do not understand that their words do hurt people.
What happened to this child is not funny. Typing words that get people upset and react to your comments is not ok.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Do it!

 

[Cyberburn]

I really, really hope you're right. But my guess would be, if this guy was thrown into GP, he'd be dead before he ate his first meal.

There have been discussions on Facebook about being ready to get this guy if he gets out on bail.
When Dru's murderer was arrested, I remember the news reporting that prisoners were asking to have some time with him. I think one even said he would get vengeance for Dru's father.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Tulessa]

Gut wrenching!

 

[Safeguard]

This post deserves a standing ovation. It is MOST important to understand this. People who do 'these things' blend in like this - you will not be able to pick them out of a crowd. They look and act like all of us so you HAVE to be aware of the little red flags they throw up, and NOT ignore your gut feeling. Don't leave your kids alone with people that you even have the tiniest frown about. So what if people think you're 'overprotective'... Actually, be aware of those who say you are, too. Not saying these people will all personally assault a child, but you also have to be aware of the throng of enablers a predator ALWAYS has around them.



Again, great post, IBsleuthin.

BBM
well said JanetElaine!

I recall this couple, who were at a huge family reunion, weekend at a campground, hundreds of people in attendance...

A friend came to them and told them that a man was watching their 9yr old daughter swim in the lake, she was concerned because he did not appear to be watching all the kids swim. Just their daughter. ( the couple was also there, on the beach, but hadn't noticed this man, as they were intent on their children).

They immediately went to speak to their daughter. They asked the child about, (insert mans name), and were totally shocked to learn, that he had, already had several encounters with the child, right under their watch! :

Mom told her,( at communal tables), she had to wait till after dinner for a brownie, but he had snuck her one, ( now they have a "secret" together, a very common grooming tactic).
He had (briefly) rubbed her neck/shoulders, standing behind her, in the dark, at the (crowded) bonfire, ( establishing familiarity of his touching her intimately).
He massaged her foot, on one occasion, while returning a dropped flip-flop.
There were a a number times he made comments to her about her, "pretty hair, smile ect...

Her parents were stunned! They never saw ANY of this go down!!

As you so aptly said, They are masters at going unnoticed.

One thing I personally have noticed...genuinely kind people, who want to help my child, say, push her swing, or put a marshmallow on a stick for her, will, at the very least, make eye contact with me, in that unspoken, "Do you mind if I help her with this marsh mellow" kind of way. Then they WAIT for me to respond in kind. Predators will often just "help" your child, and watch to see if you object.OR NOT! (Testing boundaries).

 

[gregjrichards]

Ok good.
This one person on Facebook who keeps commenting terrible things on my local news media article posts has me ready to go to the fast food place were he works to speak to him face to face.
I just really want to know why he is doing this. I think some people think is ok to post anything they want online, and truly do not understand that their words do hurt people.
What happened to this child is not funny. Typing words that get people upset and react to your comments is not ok.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Let's hope his boss sees what he has posted and fires him.

 

[IBsleuthin]

BBM
well said JanetElaine!

I recall this couple, who were at a huge family reunion, weekend at a campground, hundreds of people in attendance...

A friend came to them and told them that a man was watching their 9yr old daughter swim in the lake, she was concerned because he did not appear to be watching all the kids swim. Just their daughter. ( the couple was also there, on the beach, but hadn't noticed this man, as they were intent on their children).

They immediately went to speak to their daughter. They asked the child about, (insert mans name), and were totally shocked to learn, that he had, already had several encounters with the child, right under their watch! :

Mom told her,( at communal tables), she had to wait till after dinner for a brownie, but he had snuck her one, ( now they have a "secret" together, a very common grooming tactic).
He had (briefly) rubbed her neck/shoulders, standing behind her, in the dark, at the (crowded) bonfire, ( establishing familiarity of his touching her intimately).
He massaged her foot, on one occasion, while returning a dropped flip-flop.
There were a a number times he made comments to her about her, "pretty hair, smile ect...

Her parents were stunned! They never saw ANY of this go down!!

As you so aptly said, They are masters at going unnoticed.

One thing I personally have noticed...genuinely kind people, who want to help my child, say, push her swing, or put a marshmallow on a stick for her, will, at the very least, make eye contact with me, in that unspoken, "Do you mind if I help her with this marsh mellow" kind of way. Then they WAIT for me to respond in kind. Predators will often just "help" your child, and watch to see if you object.OR NOT! (Testing boundaries).

EXACTLY what I was talking about. This is an EXCELLENT series of examples.

 

[IBsleuthin]

BBM
well said JanetElaine!

I recall this couple, who were at a huge family reunion, weekend at a campground, hundreds of people in attendance...

A friend came to them and told them that a man was watching their 9yr old daughter swim in the lake, she was concerned because he did not appear to be watching all the kids swim. Just their daughter. ( the couple was also there, on the beach, but hadn't noticed this man, as they were intent on their children).

They immediately went to speak to their daughter. They asked the child about, (insert mans name), and were totally shocked to learn, that he had, already had several encounters with the child, right under their watch! :

Mom told her,( at communal tables), she had to wait till after dinner for a brownie, but he had snuck her one, ( now they have a "secret" together, a very common grooming tactic).
He had (briefly) rubbed her neck/shoulders, standing behind her, in the dark, at the (crowded) bonfire, ( establishing familiarity of his touching her intimately).
He massaged her foot, on one occasion, while returning a dropped flip-flop.
There were a a number times he made comments to her about her, "pretty hair, smile ect...

Her parents were stunned! They never saw ANY of this go down!!

As you so aptly said, They are masters at going unnoticed.

One thing I personally have noticed...genuinely kind people, who want to help my child, say, push her swing, or put a marshmallow on a stick for her, will, at the very least, make eye contact with me, in that unspoken, "Do you mind if I help her with this marsh mellow" kind of way. Then they WAIT for me to respond in kind. Predators will often just "help" your child, and watch to see if you object.OR NOT! (Testing boundaries).

(BBM)

Posting this again because I think it is that important!! This last sentence wow, this is just amazing how this sums up predatory behavior! This sentence should be included in every single parenting manual, magazine, pamphlet ect...world wide. THAT is how important that is.

Excellent.

By the way this exact behavior goes right along with tickling, poking, teasing, stroking hair, ect...where they are testing to see if you respond and if you don't? The CHILD views this as acceptable behavior even when this behavior may make the child uncomfortable.

Now, we are getting to the good stuff. This is the stuff that needs to be taught.

 

[JanetElaine]

Thank you beyond words. I am passionate about this subject probably more than any other subject. The amount of energy spent after the fact needs to be re-assigned to before it happens.

Survivors often go on to lead broken lives, the ripple effect cannot be understated.

You're very welcome, and I am so very sorry you had to live it. I am glad you found your voice and are raising awareness. You're strong. <3

 

[JanetElaine]

(BBM)

Posting this again because I think it is that important!! This last sentence wow, this is just amazing how this sums up predatory behavior! This sentence should be included in every single parenting manual, magazine, pamphlet ect...world wide. THAT is how important that is.

Excellent.

By the way this exact behavior goes right along with tickling, poking, teasing, stroking hair, ect...where they are testing to see if you respond and if you don't? The CHILD views this as acceptable behavior even when this behavior may make the child uncomfortable.

Now, we are getting to the good stuff. This is the stuff that needs to be taught.

bbm

Indeed! Indeed, indeed. Very good posts by both of you, IBsleuthin and Safeguard.

This is also why I have a bit of a problem with the 'bathing suit' theory (where kids are taught nobody is allowed to touch their body where a bathing suit would go). I have taught and am still teaching the youngest that nobody is allowed to touch them ANYWHERE without permission. Neck, shoulders, foot... nowhere. No forced hugs either. 'Permission to touch' is a must. And from experience I can say that contrary to what sceptics might argue, kids don't go 'paranoid' or scared of every touch. My kids don't flinch when their buddy throws an arm around their shoulder, like friends do. But they DO know that their body, all of it, is theirs and they are ALWAYS allowed to refuse anyone to touch them, even if it is grandma who wants a hug, or their best friend, or the milk man. See how that goes? NONE of this however should make the parent less aware. Kids should never be responsible for their own safety, no matter how many tools you have handed them.

(I apologize if I sound preachy... I am very passionate about this subject too, and sometimes I wish I could just telepathically transfer all me knowledge and experience with this stuff to other parents, so these monsters will be outsmarted at every turn by parents who would rather make Uncle Jack uncomfortable by allowing their kiddo to leave him hanging for a hug, than to risk the child thinking they always have to obey an adult's wish to hug or touch them).

 

[JanetElaine]

Hate to serial post but I do want to add that my posts on this topic in NO WAY mean to imply that sweet Alayna's parents did ANYTHING wrong at all. My posts are not meant to judge or directed at the parents or their actions in any way, shape or form, and are only in response to how ZA seemed like such a normal guy, and how many predators seem like normal people... until they show their true colors. It is HARD to filter these people out and they are literally capable of fooling anyone, no matter how involved you are as a parent.

 

[katydid23]

(BBM)

Posting this again because I think it is that important!! This last sentence wow, this is just amazing how this sums up predatory behavior! This sentence should be included in every single parenting manual, magazine, pamphlet ect...world wide. THAT is how important that is.

Excellent.

By the way this exact behavior goes right along with tickling, poking, teasing, stroking hair, ect...where they are testing to see if you respond and if you don't? The CHILD views this as acceptable behavior even when this behavior may make the child uncomfortable.

Now, we are getting to the good stuff. This is the stuff that needs to be taught.

SO TRUE. THIS KIND OF STUFF DOES NEED TO BE TAUGHT.

As a survivor of child sexual abuse, I very rarely ever let my kids go to sleepovers. I had other kids at my house, and mine were allowed to go to their cousins for slumber parties or to one very close family friend's, that we knew since our kids were in Mommy and Me. Other than that, it was hard when people had birthday slumber parties. When my girl was still in elementary school I just didn't feel she was fully prepared for what 'could' happen. Everyone was fine when I politely declined, EXCEPT FOR ONE FAMILY---they were very annoying about it and would push the subject.

I had their daughter over for sleepovers and they would often say ' let's do it at our house next time.' but I did not feel comfortable because I did not know the father AND there was an older teen brother that I knew from him playing sports with my son, and I did not like the kid. LOL I just got weird vibes from him and so I didn't want my girl to sleep over there.

One time my daughter argues with me about it and she said ' Janie's Mom says you are too controlling and you should trust ME more....'

My head almost exploded! Who was this mother that would tell a 9 yr old that I didn't trust HER? And what kind of Mom would tell a little girl that her Mom was 'too controlling???'
Well, that did it. I pretty much cut off our daughters friendship after that. I tried to make sure we had different after school activities etc...

And sure enough, a few years later, when my daughter was 13, and this boy was 17, HE WAS MESSAGING HER ON MYSPACE---telling her she looked 'HOT' and asking her if she wanted to hang out!!!

I KNEW IT! My husband actually apologized to me then because years earlier he thought I might be a little over reacting about not letting the girls go to the other girls house---and he finally understood what I was feeling about that kid.

Sorry for the rambling post---but it is important that parents trust their gut feelings about things. If someone gives you the creeps, trust that feeling.

 

[kaen]

RSBM

bbm
(I apologize if I sound preachy... I am very passionate about this subject too, and sometimes I wish I could just telepathically transfer all me knowledge and experience with this stuff to other parents, so these monsters will be outsmarted at every turn by parents who would rather make Uncle Jack uncomfortable by allowing their kiddo to leave him hanging for a hug, than to risk the child thinking they always have to obey an adult's wish to hug or touch them).

I agree with everything you said. As an educator, the way that you have taught your children should be what all children are taught. I think that familial/friend molestation is by far the more common situation in most cases. That said, I am painfully aware that the new trend that we are seeing in this country is abduction and killing by acquaintances or family-like members. I am not sure if it is just me, but it seems that the stakes seems higher these days. We need to figure out ways to give kids the tools to react/act when these kinds of abductions take place as well.