MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #16 - Chauvin Trial Day 13

[Tippy Lynn]

I do recall the Sargent, Jon Edwards, testified that they didn't know the squad car was on because the engine could not be heard because it is a hybrid. It was running in the electric mode on battery (for lack of a better term).
So can this exhaust fume theory be debunked?

Good catch!!!

 

[Rhozwen]

Now the medical examinor is an expert of what comes out of a car exhaust?? How is this allowed?? This is outside the scope of his expertise IMO.

 

[ilovewings]

Throw whatever at the wall and see what sticks but here is the thing: if anyone believes Floyd died because he was breathing in the exhaust, who is responsible for putting his face near the exhaust?? THE POLICE AND CHAUVIN- GMAB

 

[dixiegirl1035]

I don’t find a retired expert witness with a pending lawsuit any less credible than a witness with a criminal history taking the stand under the influence (or at minimum an attitude entirely inappropriate for a court of law setting). JMO

As the old saying is here at WS, you can't chose your witnesses, but you can chose your experts.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

I found the poster that posted about it earlier in the trial...

@Wild Rose This doctor is mentioning the carbon monoxide. Thought you would be interested.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

If I remember correctly and this is jmo.

I don't believe GF's cardiac enzymes were elevated. Cardiac enzymes are elevated when a person has a heart attack and it takes a period of time for enzymes to elevate. So if a person dies suddenly from a heart attack the enzymes aren't elevated because the death was sudden.

In addition to that, I believe it was determined GF's heart muscle didn't have damage which would be caused from a heart attack.

A heart attack and cardiac arrest are not the same.

A heart attack is when blood flow to the heart is blocked, and sudden cardiac arrest is when the heart malfunctions and suddenly stops beating unexpectedly.

Cardiac enzymes...which you look for on a living person to not have to do surgery to determine.... It's a defense SQUIRREL!!!

MOO VERY misleading and any nurse worth her salt, and perhaps folks on jury will know such. There would have been a very visible sign during autopsy of a heart attack. It's one of the easiest things to diagnose at autopsy. MOO

(Squirrel!! is an American saying for someone trying to point to something.. that has nothing to do with what is being discussed... else to divert attention and focus)

 

[Simply Southern]

Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
11m
#DerekChauvinTrial - Forensic pathologist for the defense is on the stand. Dr. David Fowler is retired chief medical examiner in Maryland. He's a professor at Johns Hopkins.

View attachment 292661

Well, this is new. Defense forensic pathologist says #GeorgeFloyd's death (cardiac arrhythmia) was due to his heart disease (atherosclerosis) during police restraint and contributing to death was fentanyl, meth AND EXPOSURE TO VEHICLE EXHAUST


link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson



Paul Blume
@PaulBlume_FOX9
·
33m
Dr Fowler going thru a power point presentation on his conclusion: #GeorgeFloyd died from sudden cardiac arrhythmia brought on by Floyd's heart disease during restraint by police. Also cites toxicology issues plus exposure to the exhaust from the nearby squad (carbon monoxide).

CAUSE OF DEATH: Watch Defense medical expert Dr. David Fowler provide his findings on #GeorgeFloyd cause of death. Dr. Fowler now describing significance of Floyd's "enlarged" heart during the deadly arrest to this jury.

link: https://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9

My opinion only....

I like this guy. Loving some slides !!!

I suspected the methamphetamine from the beginning. It has a long acting effect, Increased heart rate, arrhythmias and more.

{snipped}
At very high doses, it can induce psychosis, breakdown of skeletal muscle, seizures and bleeding in the brain. Chronic high-dose use can precipitate unpredictable and rapid mood swings, stimulant psychosis(e.g., paranoia, hallucinations, delirium, and delusions) and violent behavior. Recreationally, methamphetamine's ability to increase energy has been reported to lift mood and increase sexual desire to such an extent that users are able to engage in sexual activity continuously for several days.[19]
....
The physical effects of methamphetamine can include loss of appetite, hyperactivity, dilated pupils, flushed skin, excessive sweating, increased movement, dry mouth and teeth grinding (leading to "meth mouth"), headache, irregular heartbeat (usually as accelerated heartbeat or slowed heartbeat), rapid breathing, high blood pressure, low blood pressure, high body temperature, diarrhea, constipation, blurred vision, dizziness, twitching, numbness, tremors, dry skin, acne, and pale appearance.



Fatal
Doses of 200 mg or more of methamphetamine are considered fatal.[41]


Methamphetamine - Wikipedia

 

[Simply Southern]

I don’t find a retired expert witness with a pending lawsuit any less credible than a witness with a criminal history taking the stand under the influence (or at minimum an attitude entirely inappropriate for a court of law setting). JMO

He’s retired from ME but is a professor at Johns Hopkin Hospital.
Moo, that is a pretty good job.

 

[Chelly]

The defense expert witnesses have been such a let down. Why are they wasting so much time on carbon monoxide now? What am I missing?

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Now the medical examinor is an expert of what comes out of a car exhaust?? How is this allowed?? This is outside the scope of his expertise IMO.

The state is going to be all over this......

 

[Rocky1]

I do recall the Sargent, Jon Edwards, testified that they didn't know the squad car was on because the engine could not be heard because it is a hybrid. It was running in the electric mode on battery (for lack of a better term).
So can this exhaust fume theory be debunked?

The Ford Escape Police Interceptor is a Hybrid, however, because Police cruiser's idle most of the time during accident investigations and speed traps, etc. they, unlike most Hybrids do not shut off when the vehicle stops.
Having said that, Chauvin was responsible for Floyd's safety, so if he was poisoned by carbon monoxide, IMO, the blame is still on him.

The 2021 Ford Police SUV Is Great for 'Idling on the Job'

Sure, the Ford Police Interceptor Utility Hybrid is more than capable of handling high-speed chases. But the reality of police work is that cop cars spend most of their time idling or operating at low speeds. Officers’ routine duties, such as traffic control, motorist assistance, and report writing, occur while the vehicle is running. The hybrid unit consumes only 0.2 gallons per hour while idling. That means an estimated savings of $3,500 per year in fuel costs for local departments, Ford claims.

 

[ilovewings]

The defense expert witnesses have been such a let down. Why are they wasting so much time on carbon monoxide now? What am I missing?

The defense probably had a hard time finding any expert to actually defend Chauvin, so I guess you take what you can get.

 

[Chelly]

@cathyrusson
·
1h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Well, this is new. Defense forensic pathologist says #GeorgeFloyd's death (cardiac arrhythmia) was due to his heart disease (atherosclerosis) during police restraint and contributing to death was fentanyl, meth AND EXPOSURE TO VEHICLE EXHAUST

 

[BritsKate]

Never have I ever seen an ME testify about catalytic converters.

I'd normally expect an objection but probably prudent to just wait til cross to start the flogging. JMO

 

[Simply Southern]

If I remember correctly and this is jmo.

I don't believe GF's cardiac enzymes were elevated. Cardiac enzymes are elevated when a person has a heart attack and it takes a period of time for enzymes to elevate. So if a person dies suddenly from a heart attack the enzymes aren't elevated because the death was sudden.

In addition to that, I believe it was determined GF's heart muscle didn't have damage which would be caused from a heart attack.

A heart attack and cardiac arrest are not the same.

A heart attack is when blood flow to the heart is blocked, and sudden cardiac arrest is when the heart malfunctions and suddenly stops beating unexpectedly.

I’ve not seen or heard any lab reports from the ER. ER information would determine the state he arrived for emergent care, care given and all test, and labs.

I would hope ME would review these prior to determining COD.

Hoping this is released and discussed.
IMO and I apologize I’m advance if I missed these.

 

[wasnt_me]

@cathyrusson
·
1h
#DerekChauvinTrial - Well, this is new. Defense forensic pathologist says #GeorgeFloyd's death (cardiac arrhythmia) was due to his heart disease (atherosclerosis) during police restraint and contributing to death was fentanyl, meth AND EXPOSURE TO VEHICLE EXHAUST

Let me guess. It's not DC's fault because the vehicle was parked on a public street. So it's the public's fault.

 

[MTW2011]

Isn't ANY of this carbon monoxide theory debunked if the car was a hybrid?

Was Nelson trying to admit his own photo of the exhaust and stuff on the ground to say that the car was running off the gas and not solely the electric, in an attempt to get ahead of the State asking about the car being a hybrid?

Well, even if Nelson gets a point to a juror about this carbon monoxide stuff, I'm still sure the State will carefully dismantle his expert opinion. Floyd couldn't have been even been exposed to carbon monoxide as a contributing factor had he not been laying on the ground with an officer kneeling on his neck and back for 9 minutes so....

 

[Kaley Smith]

The defense expert witnesses have been such a let down. Why are they wasting so much time on carbon monoxide now? What am I missing?

The carbon monoxide theory will be debunked in a couple of minutes by the prosecutor's cross examination. The tissues would have shown it. Besides, who was pinning Floyd down near the exhaust pipe/

 

[missy1974]

I’ve not seen or heard any lab reports from the ER. ER information would determine the state he arrived for emergent care, care given and all test, and labs.

I would hope ME would review these prior to determining COD.

Hoping this is released and discussed.
IMO and I apologize I’m advance if I missed

I have looked for the lab reports (not autopsy one's)) and can't find them and I don't believe they have been entered into evidence.

 

[Simply Southern]

I have looked for the lab reports (not autopsy one's)) and can't find them and I don't believe they have been entered into evidence.

Thank you for looking. This thread is outstanding for documents and videos.