MN - George Floyd, 46, died in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 #16 - Chauvin Trial Day 13

[BritsKate]

I do not believe this witness Dr. Fowler should be testifying on how the conduction system in the heart works and the ins and outs of cardiac arrhythmia.
He is a former medical examiner and should only be testifying in regards to what Dr. Baker listed in the autopsey report. Does he agree with the findings, why or why not? Anything else is just garbled meaningless drivel in my opinion.

And he. as a medical examiner, if asked would probably answer that he's seen people with better hearts and worse hearts than Mr, Floyd that have died as a result of cardiac issues.

Mr. Floyd's heart was so freaking typical that Dr. Baker didn't even see the need to photograph it.

 

[Simply Southern]

It's BINGO TIME folks.

Have you noticed that the back door behind Nelson, NOW he is turning around and looking each time the door opens.. as a DISTRACTION... subtle isn't he! NOT! I bet this is going to happen more in the next few days... watch for it.

He's making a subconscious note to jurors about his attention being taken away each and every time that door opens. To support that minimal affects concentration... a la Chauvin with the angry mob?

MOO

So, the challenge to all is to note each time that door opens in the next two days and post when it happens and if he turns around.


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Great observation. I must say I’d be watching the door, given circumstances and history.

 

[delilah]

I’m starting to feel a little sorry for Nelson. It obviously hasn’t been easy to find credible witnesses to testify for the defence. I doubt he’s been spoilt for choice.

 

[Chelly]

Does anyone remember jury selection when the excited PJ (I think it was PJ#2) was selected for the jury and announced "AWSOME!" to the judge? I am wondering if she is still so excited about being on this jury now?

 

[missy1974]

Great observation. I must say I’d be watching the door, given circumstances and history.

Yesterday, at the end of the day, the Judge said he wanted the lawyers in chambers to discuss security. So him looking over his shoulder this morning a few times made me think of that
It also seemed like more in/outs this morning than normal, but I don't know, sometimes I'm only listening, not actually watching.

 

[Niner]

Cathy Russon
@cathyrusson
·
11m
#DerekChauvinTrial - Forensic pathologist for the defense is on the stand. Dr. David Fowler is retired chief medical examiner in Maryland. He's a professor at Johns Hopkins.



Well, this is new. Defense forensic pathologist says #GeorgeFloyd's death (cardiac arrhythmia) was due to his heart disease (atherosclerosis) during police restraint and contributing to death was fentanyl, meth AND EXPOSURE TO VEHICLE EXHAUST


link: https://twitter.com/cathyrusson



Paul Blume
@PaulBlume_FOX9
·
33m
Dr Fowler going thru a power point presentation on his conclusion: #GeorgeFloyd died from sudden cardiac arrhythmia brought on by Floyd's heart disease during restraint by police. Also cites toxicology issues plus exposure to the exhaust from the nearby squad (carbon monoxide).

CAUSE OF DEATH: Watch Defense medical expert Dr. David Fowler provide his findings on #GeorgeFloyd cause of death. Dr. Fowler now describing significance of Floyd's "enlarged" heart during the deadly arrest to this jury.

link: https://twitter.com/PaulBlume_FOX9

 

[MadMcGoo]

I don’t find a retired expert witness with a pending lawsuit any less credible than a witness with a criminal history taking the stand under the influence (or at minimum an attitude entirely inappropriate for a court of law setting). JMO

 

[Rhozwen]

I don’t find a retired expert witness with a pending lawsuit any less credible than a witness with a criminal history taking the stand under the influence (or at minimum an attitude entirely inappropriate for a court of law setting). JMO

I am not sure to which witness you are referring regarding being under the influence. I personally give more leniency to the behavior of witnesses that are subpoenaed to testify vs. those who are paid to testify. Not all witnesses want to testify and I can not blame those who do not hide those feelings.

 

[tlcya]

his being retired is of no consequence to me. I am disregarding much of his testimony because a) I have concerns centered around the lawsuit against him and the allegations therein and mostly because b) car exhaust? He lost me right back there in that moment. at that point I knew what sort of paid gun testimony I would be hearing.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

Did GF have elevated cardiac enzymes?

If I remember correctly and this is jmo.

I don't believe GF's cardiac enzymes were elevated. Cardiac enzymes are elevated when a person has a heart attack and it takes a period of time for enzymes to elevate. So if a person dies suddenly from a heart attack the enzymes aren't elevated because the death was sudden.

In addition to that, I believe it was determined GF's heart muscle didn't have damage which would be caused from a heart attack.

A heart attack and cardiac arrest are not the same.

A heart attack is when blood flow to the heart is blocked, and sudden cardiac arrest is when the heart malfunctions and suddenly stops beating unexpectedly.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Did GF have elevated cardiac enzymes?

That is assuming that he had a heart attack, which would have released enzymes.

MOO 100% he did NOT have a heart attack releasing enzymes, nor showed one of the easiest diagnostics by a pathologist of a heart attack.

I am glad a nurse is on this jury. MOO

 

[MadMcGoo]

I am not sure to which witness you are referring regarding being under the influence. I personally give more leniency to the behavior of witnesses that are subpoenaed to testify vs. those who are paid to testify. Not all witnesses want to testify and I can not blame those who do not hide those feelings.

I can think of a couple of witnesses. I agree no one wants to testify and emotions can be all over the place. A couple, that I’ve seen, came off as blatantly disrespectful. I suppose I can understand why the jury doesn’t get to know some things. It should have no bearing on whether they pay attention to that particular witness or how much credibility they give their testimony.


Some experts witnesses for both sides are hard to follow for various reasons. I’m sure the jury feels the same. I hope that doesn’t deter them from paying close attention to what each one says.

 

[BritsKate]

I just can't see drug use or addiction as stigmatising anymore. It hits too close to too many of our homes.

MOO

 

[delilah]

Court TV pundits seem to think Fowler is credible, despite not even mentioning the three police officers holding GF down while he died. I suspect Jerry Blackwell might mention it once or twice.

 

[missy1974]

his being retired is of no consequence to me. I am disregarding much of his testimony because a) I have concerns centered around the lawsuit against him and the allegations therein and mostly because b) car exhaust? He lost me right back there in that moment. at that point I knew what sort of paid gun testimony I would be hearing.

There was a poster last week or maybe the first week that said something about the carbon monoxide too. Will have to see if I can find it.

 

[Rhozwen]

There was a poster last week or maybe the first week that said something about the carbon monoxide too. Will have to see if I can find it.

I do recall the Sargent, Jon Edwards, testified that they didn't know the squad car was on because the engine could not be heard because it is a hybrid. It was running in the electric mode on battery (for lack of a better term).
So can this exhaust fume theory be debunked?

 

[missy1974]

If I remember correctly and this is jmo.

I don't believe GF's cardiac enzymes were elevated. Cardiac enzymes are elevated when a person has a heart attack and it takes a period of time for enzymes to elevate. So if a person dies suddenly from a heart attack the enzymes aren't elevated because the death was sudden.

In addition to that, I believe it was determined GF's heart muscle didn't have damage which would be caused from a heart attack.

A heart attack and cardiac arrest are not the same.

A heart attack is when blood flow to the heart is blocked, and sudden cardiac arrest is when the heart malfunctions and suddenly stops beating unexpectedly.

BBM
IMO I don't think anyone has testified that he had a heart attack or that the defense has implied he had a heart attack.

This came up last week too.

Cariac arrest/cardiopulmonary arrest doesn't mean heart attack.

Sudden cardiac arrest - Symptoms and causes

Sudden cardiac arrest is the abrupt loss of heart function, breathing and consciousness. The condition usually results from a problem with your heart's electrical system, which disrupts your heart's pumping action and stops blood flow to your body.

Sudden cardiac arrest isn't the same as a heart attack, when blood flow to a part of the heart is blocked. However, a heart attack can sometimes trigger an electrical disturbance that leads to sudden cardiac arrest.


Causes
The usual cause of sudden cardiac arrest is an abnormal heart rhythm (arrhythmia), which happens when your heart's electrical system isn't working correctly.

The heart's electrical system controls the rate and rhythm of your heartbeat. If something goes wrong, your heart can beat too fast, too slowly or irregularly (arrhythmia). Often these arrhythmias are brief and harmless, but some types can lead to sudden cardiac arrest.

The most common heart rhythm at the time of cardiac arrest is an arrhythmia in a lower chamber of your heart (ventricle). Rapid, erratic electrical impulses cause your ventricles to quiver uselessly instead of pumping blood (ventricle fibrillation).

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM
Mr. Floyd's heart was so freaking typical that Dr. Baker didn't even see the need to photograph it.

I heard during testimony by him that he did many photos. Of the arteries, of the anterior, after he cut into etc etc. MOO

 

[wasnt_me]

Right? I'm trying to pay attention but my brain has checked out. I keep catching myself fixated on my wall trying not to drool.

LOL I was looking at the avatar of your dog and then I read your post. LOL Appropriate!

I came here to catch up because I'm glazing over with Dr Fowler, but I guess you all are, too.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

BBM
IMO I don't think anyone has testified that he had a heart attack or that the defense has implied he had a heart attack.

This came up last week too.

Cariac arrest/cardiopulmonary arrest doesn't mean heart attack.

Sudden cardiac arrest - Symptoms and causes

Sudden cardiac arrest is the abrupt loss of heart function, breathing and consciousness. The condition usually results from a problem with your heart's electrical system, which disrupts your heart's pumping action and stops blood flow to your body.

Sudden cardiac arrest isn't the same as a heart attack, when blood flow to a part of the heart is blocked. However, a heart attack can sometimes trigger an electrical disturbance that leads to sudden cardiac arrest.


Causes
The usual cause of sudden cardiac arrest is an abnormal heart rhythm (arrhythmia), which happens when your heart's electrical system isn't working correctly.

The heart's electrical system controls the rate and rhythm of your heartbeat. If something goes wrong, your heart can beat too fast, too slowly or irregularly (arrhythmia). Often these arrhythmias are brief and harmless, but some types can lead to sudden cardiac arrest.

The most common heart rhythm at the time of cardiac arrest is an arrhythmia in a lower chamber of your heart (ventricle). Rapid, erratic electrical impulses cause your ventricles to quiver uselessly instead of pumping blood (ventricle fibrillation).

I haven't heard testimony of GF having a heart attack either.