MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #12

[Sasquatch321]

Obviously, none of us on WS.

I believe that to be a fact. I'm guessing most of us have seen a couple 10 minute interviews and a few lines and opinions in the media. Joy has met with him once or twice to our knowledge, Patty has met with him once. Noone has seen DR when he is angry or sad, which is prevelant in everybody.

 

[Sasquatch321]

Just want to share what I got in the mail today from Mark Bromenschenkel...

(snipped and paraphrased from his flyer)

"...we need to review all unsolved murders and missing person cases in Stearns County"
"...I will release more information and engage the citizens of Stearns County to share what they know"


He also comments on his FB page that he will be doing a lot more with the Wetterling case, as well as other cases. He wants the public to have input on what happened.

FWIW, I don't endorse Bromenschenkel, I just found it interesting.

"...I will release more information and engage the citizens of Stearns County to share what they know"

Thank you, Mr Bromenschenkel. Even if it hampers a possible future prosecution?

 

[bowater]

is there DNA evidence available from Jared? (rape kit)

 

[bowater]

we need a age enhanced picture of the police sketches. The guy is either dead or in a nursing home.

 

[Trackergd]

While it could possibly yield results, would they be admissible in a court of law? I'm not an expert, but I imagine they wouldn't be, for the same reason that we're not supposed to create side-by-side pictures here of composite sketches and other people. It compromises the integrity of people's memories. Memory is very susceptible to outside influence, even if it happens with the best of intentions. Who knows how suggestible someone might be when it comes to a 30 year old memory of a face they barely knew to begin with?

I also would be surprised if police hadn't already taken descriptions of these perpetrators and compared them.

I am on the fence about priorities here. Sometimes I think closure for Jacobs family might be more important. Public opinion will damn the perp to unemployment and ostracization. I also doubt that Jacob is the only victim. Open the can and a bunch more evidence might fall out...

 

[Dave K]

I am on the fence about priorities here. Sometimes I think closure for Jacobs family might be more important. Public opinion will damn the perp to unemployment and ostracization. I also doubt that Jacob is the only victim. Open the can and a bunch more evidence might fall out...

If they can Definitively Identify the Perpetrator; other things will fall into place! Definitively Identifying the Perpetrator is where it needs to start! Preserving a prosecution, does precious little, if a Perpetrator is never Identified. Perp identified, could be - already in prison, dead, elderly, somehow disabled, found guilty of other crimes; if identified, would not be free to victimize others.

 

[human]

What I find puzzling is that there appears to have been no "grooming" of Jacob. I would think the other boys might have noticed had there been and been able to point towards a particular individual.

Jacob comes from a very loving family that had the children in lots of activities. The parents were very involved. No need for a father/male substitute.

 

[human]

Prior to the late 1980's, the was little awareness or concern about sex crimes against boys. Beginning about the time of Jacob's abduction, there became a national uproar, bordering on panic about sex crimes against children and the dangers of sexual predators. This widespread hysteria resulted in ,many false charges and innocent people jailed. It it did lead to an increased awareness of the problem, longs prison sentences and more vigilant enforcement.

Prior to this time, sexual assault on boys often carried more stigma and shame on the victims than the perpetrators. Incidents were frequently not reported and when they were, they were handled locally with little exchange of information between law enforcement agencies. They were not considered serious crimes. The only time it was taken seriously when a boy was killed or believed killed.

After the late 1980's sexual assaults on young boys became recognized as a serious problem. It is believed that the incidence of these crime dropped way off but it was hard to tell because it was also believed that they were now far more likely to be reported.

FBI studies of young boys who were abducted and killed or believed killed were virtually always Victims of men who had committed multiple "snatch and grab" type assaults and the murder was simply an escalation of the level of sexual violence, often involving sadism. These studies were conducted by interviews with convicted abductors. It is my understand that all of them admitted to having a long history of sexual abuse of young boys but not all of them had criminal convictions. Most, if not all, tended to live on the fringes of society with low status jobs and limited social interaction.

The obvious point to start at would be know sexual offenders. After that,the target would be men suspected of sex crimes but never convicted and serious efforts to solve previously unsolved sex crimes. Beyond that, it would seem reasonable to encourage boys and their families to come forward and report previously unreported sex crimes. I would think that any snatch and grab assault within 25 miles of st Joseph should have been looked at carefully.

There is a good chance that whoever did Jacob has not been implicated in an assault of a child but it is unlikely that there have never been suspicions and rumors of inappropriate acts; particularly during teenage years.

Most likely, this perp never committed a similar crime in that area. He may very well have ended all sexual contact with children or more likely, laid low for a while and then left the area. I think the best chance of solving this case is to identify anyone convicted or implicated in a snatch and grab of a young boy in some other jurisdiction who lived in the St Cloud area in Oct 1989.

There is no rule that says absolutely that Jacob was killed by someone with a history of sexual interest In children but it would seem prudent to use some care while investigating anyone with no such history. Being "odd", not being known to engage in "normal" sexual relation or the suspicion of homosexuality are NOT markers of a sexual predator.

That is interesting, but of course there are always people who do not fit the mold. There is always a new twist on things.

The BTK would have long years between kills. He was married with children and was a church deacon.

Gary Ridgeway killed numerous women and he would bring his Bible to work and quote from it all of the time. He had the same job for 33 years and was married a couple of times.

Then we have Israel Keyes. I hate saying any if their names because they are so vile. He travelled all over to do his kills. He would fly to one part of the country and then drive to another to do his horror.

So , there all kinds of twisted demented people that we know nothing about.

Jerry Sandusky operated for years. And of course all of those special priests.

It could be that a perv in this case had victims, but they are far away and do not see the news or they are dead.

 

[human]

Studies I've read suggest "snatch and grab" abductors have a low level of social skills in interactions. They turn to violence to get what their social skills limit. Groomers tend to have a higher level of social skill, and do not resort to violence to get it.

I've never met DR, but Joy seems to think he is rather intelligent and relatable.

In this case, the POI lives with parents. Hard to bring one home or anywhere.

And being intelligent, he wants to keep his job.

If we compare sex addiction to alcoholism, the alcoholic does everything he can to hold onto his job because that is the source for his income.

There are those that are intelligent and of high society that hide their alcoholism because they have resources. Of course, at some point, many go down in flames.

 

[human]

"About nine months in is probably when you know the person as well as you’re ever going to."

http://wallstreetinsanity.com/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-to-know-someone/

Who truly knows DR?

The perp in the Hannah Graham case was described by many as a gentle giant. For many. It has been hard to accept that he is a serial killer. He was so a state wrestling champ in high school. An honored football player. So honored that they made tee shirts of , "We love LJ""

He saved a girl from being stalked and another one from being trampled.

He had lots of church friends.

So lots of people did not know the gentle giant

 

[Trino]

we need a age enhanced picture of the police sketches. The guy is either dead or in a nursing home.

Or, not in the community. While I understand everyone thinks local, that may not be so.

 

[shergal]

Can we stop discussing other posters and endorsing candidates and just discuss Jacob's abduction? Thanks!

 

[Sasquatch321]

I just cant get over the manner in which DR was finally named a POI. 21 years after the abduction is a long time to suddenly be helpful. How much longer will we wait for what they know. DR wants his name cleared, we want his name cleared, if they havent got a conviction then let us know that and answer all the questions about the crime scene. Is there a perp footprint, does it fit DRs feet at all? The longer DR remains a POI, the worse its getting for everybody.

 

[Trackergd]

I just cant get over the manner in which DR was finally named a POI. 21 years after the abduction is a long time to suddenly be helpful. How much longer will we wait for what they know. DR wants his name cleared, we want his name cleared, if they havent got a conviction then let us know that and answer all the questions about the crime scene. Is there a perp footprint, does it fit DRs feet at all? The longer DR remains a POI, the worse its getting for everybody.

There is a possibility that DR just happened too be unlucky enough to be living on the remote spot the crime occurred and coupled with his social idiosyncrasies and saving scraps of information on the case, inadvertently shined the spotlight on himself. I'm starting to soften my opinion of the Sheriff's department, tho I am still not happy with the lack of sharing after 25 years. Better to find out who did it first, find Jacob and worry about how to nail the perps hide to the barn wall later.

 

[scotgirl]

There is a possibility that DR just happened too be unlucky enough to be living on the remote spot the crime occurred and coupled with his social idiosyncrasies and saving scraps of information on the case, inadvertently shined the spotlight on himself. I'm starting to soften my opinion of the Sheriff's department, tho I am still not happy with the lack of sharing after 25 years. Better to find out who did it first, find Jacob and worry about how to nail the perps hide to the barn wall later.

Completely agree

 

[Dave K]

There is a possibility that DR just happened too be unlucky enough to be living on the remote spot the crime occurred and coupled with his social idiosyncrasies and saving scraps of information on the case, inadvertently shined the spotlight on himself. I'm starting to soften my opinion of the Sheriff's department, tho I am still not happy with the lack of sharing after 25 years. Better to find out who did it first, find Jacob and worry about how to nail the perps hide to the barn wall later.

Something else to be considered concerning those circumstances; whereas you mentioned that, DR may have been unlucky enough to have the crime occurring where he happened to live, and his social idiosyncrasies, etc... - is that, DR did become a POI after 21 years, (in which case, he hadn't really been previous to that), and the thing that triggered that, was when "Kevin" came forward, giving information about his having driven through the crime scene that night; and then, as a result of that happening, LE somehow or another (that I Really Can't Understand), then concluded that, because of that, there had not been any vehicle involved in Jacob's abduction. Well, if it were concluded that there were no vehicle involved, then, DR would in fact come to mind as maybe the one individual who could have possibly committed the crime, just due to logistics.

Like Phantom mentioned in post #576 "Frustrating to ponder that an abduction took place and police quickly arrived -- FBI immediately got involved. Choppers, dogs, forensics people, LE, three searches, interviews, blogs, TV shows, tips from the public - twenty five years later - no arrest..... What's going on?"

So, with the circumstances being that the immediate area was pretty much flooded with LE quite quickly after the abduction, then, it's hard to see how someone, Not DR, could have pulled it off, on foot! Where did they go, so quickly, taking Jacob with them, and having no vehicle. It would be hard to see how someone, not DR, on foot, would have been able to pull it off. Again, where did they go, so quickly, On Foot?

So, given those circumstances, seems like DR surfaced as the only realistic possibility. The problem I have, is that, I see no sense in LE having concluded, in 2003 that there had been no vehicle used. This just makes no sense to me at all. I expect that it's way more likely than not that a vehicle was used. At least that's my thinking.

 

[Trino]

There were so many vehicles, footsteps, horses that convened on and around the abduction place, plus the idea that St. J was a small town with LE that had not dealt with such a crime, that I cannot understand how anyone can state there was no vehicle involved.

 

[scotgirl]

There were so many vehicles, footsteps, horses that convened on and around the abduction place, plus the idea that St. J was a small town with LE that had not dealt with such a crime, that I cannot understand how anyone can state there was no vehicle involved.

Absolutely Trino, they seemed too quick to discount a vehicle just because Kevin's was ruled out.

 

[Sasquatch321]

There were so many vehicles, footsteps, horses that convened on and around the abduction place, plus the idea that St. J was a small town with LE that had not dealt with such a crime, that I cannot understand how anyone can state there was no vehicle involved.

I think this is a rather broad statement. LE already had crime scene tape up on the driveway before DR left for work the next morning. The horses hadn't arrived yet. Now without the horses, I find it impossible that LE used their footsteps to erase the vehicle that took Jacob. There is said to be two vehicles between 9 and 10 pm that night (one witnessed by DR), that drove the entire driveway, the evidence of two vehicles should be there.

 

[scotgirl]

Two vehicles? i thought there was only Kevin's and the one DR saw earlier in the day