MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #16

[Sasquatch321]

I agree. I wonder if this type of crime was so unheard of back in 1989 and almost 'taboo' to talk about so they didn't specify the motive.

I think there are several things that LE needs to release and/or clarify if they ever want to see any movement on this case!

Jared was before Jacob and the result of his abduction being sexual by fact was printed in newspapers. Why not in Jacobs, if two of the boys could verify.

 

[emeraldine]

If the boys say they were fondled, and it has been verified by Patty Wetterling, then I don't know what else to do besides either to believe it, or to dismiss everything the boys said about the abduction from the beginning.

It was mentioned earlier(though my internet connection isn't letting me go back and quote the post right now, unfortunately) that Jared knows who the perp who abducted him is. Has that information been made public, and I've just overlooked it? This is the first time I've heard that.

 

[chaplain1]

If the boys say they were fondled, and it has been verified by Patty Wetterling, then I don't know what else to do besides either to believe it, or to dismiss everything the boys said about the abduction from the beginning.

It was mentioned earlier(though my internet connection isn't letting me go back and quote the post right now, unfortunately) that Jared knows who the perp who abducted him is. Has that information been made public, and I've just overlooked it? This is the first time I've heard that.

I read Patty's comments as dispelling the replacement son theories and that the family is very realistic about his fate; thus, I do not read it as confirmation someone touched their privates. The sexual motive is implicit in the armed abduction of a 10 year old stranger.

 

[emeraldine]

I read Patty's comments as dispelling the replacement son theories and that the family is very realistic about his fate; thus, I do not read it as confirmation someone touched their privates. The sexual motive is implicit in the armed abduction of a 10 year old stranger.

Absolutely, in my opinion.

The only other reason I could imagine would be for ransom.

If he had been 10 months old(and, most especially, if the abductor had been a woman), I could understand the "replacement son" theory.

 

[Sasquatch321]

I read Patty's comments as dispelling the replacement son theories and that the family is very realistic about his fate; thus, I do not read it as confirmation someone touched their privates. The sexual motive is implicit in the armed abduction of a 10 year old stranger.

When was it verified that Jareds was an armed abduction? The perp told jared he would blow his head off, but nowhere has it ever said that he saw the gun.

 

[chaplain1]

When was it verified that Jareds was an armed abduction? The perp told jared he would blow his head off, but nowhere has it ever said that he saw the gun.

I was speaking of Jacob

 

[Sasquatch321]

I was speaking of Jacob

Ok well Jacob was 11, for fact.

 

[MotherOcean]

I did not know the boys had been fondled by the perp. This is important. I wish we had a clear confirmation of this via MSM. I have never read that anywhere. When I read a brief statement about it here on WS I thought it was speculation.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I agree. I wonder if this type of crime was so unheard of back in 1989 and almost 'taboo' to talk about so they didn't specify the motive.

I think there are several things that LE needs to release and/or clarify if they ever want to see any movement on this case!

Exactly!! It Can't Happen Here. What LE thought to be uniquely specific to these crimes, they later learned were commonplace to this dark side of humanity.

 

[chaplain1]

Exactly!! It Can't Happen Here. What LE thought to be uniquely specific to these crimes, they later learned were commonplace to this dark side of humanity.

They had a 25 minute opportunity chance to talk about this late last Summer on CNN. If it's true, it would also fit perfectly with the still unverified 12 Paynesville attacks.

 

[emeraldine]

Exactly!! It Can't Happen Here. What LE thought to be uniquely specific to these crimes, they later learned were commonplace to this dark side of humanity.

It is true that it happened less often than it does, say, today, but I'm not remembering growing up in a Puritanical society in which these sorts of crimes were "taboo" to talk about in the 80s.

I think they didn't specify the motive because - like in so many cases - it's impossible to truly be sure, even if the perp himself tells you during a polygraph or under oath.

Maybe it was difficult to believe that such a thing was happening in such a small town. Growing up in a small town used to mean walking around and doing whatever as a child...now it means having your entire existence pre-planned and supervised so some sicko doesn't grab you the moment you open a window.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I didn't know they'd decided there was a "sure link" at some point. It would be interesting to me to know what made them sure at one time.

I would expect a link, but not if they do now have reason to believe there isn't.

From "It Can't Happen Here," page 129-130:

FBI investigators interviewed Jared three times in December 1989, and afterward were comfortable with Jared’s description of his assailant, and that Jacob’s abduction case bore strong similarities to Jared’s assault. Investigators also noted that the abductor in both cases exhibited a commanding presence.

“This guy was very aggressive, very commanding, almost like a military man,” said FBI spokesperson Byron Gigler.
Details of the two incidents led investigators to believe they may be linked, although they declined to disclose the specifics of those details on the basis that doing so could compromise the investigation. Authorities released a ninth and final sketch of the man believed to be involved in Jared's case. Of all the sketches, this one was particularly significant because the man in Jared's assault was not wearing a mask. An experienced FBI artist from Washington, DC created the sketch after a lengthy meeting with Jared and his parents.

“We didn’t want to put out an artist conception like this one unless we were certain,” said FBI Supervisor Jeff Jamar.
Jamar added that the FBI took several weeks to be certain that Jared’s description of his attacker was accurate and that circumstances of both cases pointed to a single attacker. That information was developed after the FBI conducted three interviews with Jared.
Sheriff Charlie Grafft pointed out the differences between this sketch and the sketch of Jared’s perpetrator that had been released in February 1989. He explained that the original sketch had been created immediately after Jared’s assault in January, and that this new sketch was after Jared was better able to recall details of the man’s face.

“He’s a sharp, very intelligent young man,” Grafft said of Jared. “He was able to give a lot of details.”

Also, page 190:

As Jared went public with his story (in 2004), Stearns County Sheriff John Sanner was downplaying the possible links between the two cases. While Sanner acknowledged the cases had some similarities and that such links had been considered from the very beginning of the Wetterling investigation, he cautioned that the links between the cases were weaker than previously believed.

“It strengthened the likelihood that they aren't related,” Sanner said. But the sheriff stopped short of saying the cases were not related. “The cases are similar, and we're not ruling it out,” Sheriff Sanner said. “But there are significant differences too.”
“The similarities are there and you cannot get beyond that,” Sanner added. “But are they really and truly connected? Until we get resolution, I don’t know that we can answer that with any certainty.”

Sheriff Sanner’s stance marked another turn in the investigation because investigators had stated many times over the years that there were strong links between the two cases. In fact, at one point, investigators had disclosed they had found a "sure link” between the cases. As time passed, that “sure link” began to carry less weight than it had in the early days of the investigation.

 

[ELOCsoul]

It is true that it happened less often than it does, say, today, but I'm not remembering growing up in a Puritanical society in which these sorts of crimes were "taboo" to talk about in the 80s.

I think they didn't specify the motive because - like in so many cases - it's impossible to truly be sure, even if the perp himself tells you during a polygraph or under oath.

Maybe it was difficult to believe that such a thing was happening in such a small town. Growing up in a small town used to mean walking around and doing whatever as a child...now it means having your entire existence pre-planned and supervised so some sicko doesn't grab you the moment you open a window.

I would argue that there was more of this going on back in 1989 than there is today, largely because LE just didn't know how to contend with the problem, and turned a blind eye to it. Today, and largely because of Jacob, we have sex offender registration laws that help protect potential victims from convicted abusers. Our schools are better equipped to prepare and warn children of the dangers that could face them.

From page 178 from "It Can't Happen Here":

During the 1992 civil lawsuit, chief Konz expressed concern over how the allegations against Hoefgen would impact the community of Cold Spring.

“There's so many small people in a small town like this, they could crucify him,” Konz said. “And maybe he had it coming, but that wasn't the way things were done in those days.”

 

[chaplain1]

I would argue that there was more of this going on back in 1989 than there is today, largely because LE just didn't know how to contend with the problem, and turned a blind eye to it. Today, and largely because of Jacob, we have sex offender registration laws that help protect potential victims from convicted abusers. Our schools are better equipped to prepare and warn children of the dangers that could face them.

From page 178 from "It Can't Happen Here":

During the 1992 civil lawsuit, chief Konz expressed concern over how the allegations against Hoefgen would impact the community of Cold Spring.

“There's so many small people in a small town like this, they could crucify him,” Konz said. “And maybe he had it coming, but that wasn't the way things were done in those days.”

Are you saying that le chose not to release information--like the rumored grabs? Or, are you making the point we are more informed and educated about sexual abuse? If the latter, I think we all agree. But, what was overlooked with this worldview?

 

[shergal]

This info would be very helpful to Joy, and I have not seen her use it. I think the Sheriff got the cases confused.

I don't think the original sheriff (Charlie Grafft) had the cases confused at all. IMO, the reason Joy or MSM has not "used" this info is because LE was keeping it quiet to use once they finally arrested the abductor, as only he would know those details. However, after 25 years, Mickelson mentioned it online, and other retired LE have verified it verbally. But it is still not printed out in detail - partly out of respect for Jacob and his family, and partly because it is no one's business and should be saved for when and if they ever do arrest someone. Patty saying it was sexually motivated should be enough for us, we don't need to know the "why" as much as LE needs to save the explicit info for future use. (JMO)

 

[Sasquatch321]

I don't think the original sheriff (Charlie Grafft) had the cases confused at all. IMO, the reason Joy or MSM has not "used" this info is because LE was keeping it quiet to use once they finally arrested the abductor, as only he would know those details. However, after 25 years, Mickelson mentioned it online, and other retired LE have verified it verbally. But it is still not printed out in detail - partly out of respect for Jacob and his family, and partly because it is no one's business and should be saved for when and if they ever do arrest someone. Patty saying it was sexually motivated should be enough for us, we don't need to know the "why" as much as LE needs to save the explicit info for future use. (JMO)

Perhaps then this is why DR will never confess even when cornered. His family could never live with this. Just curious, is there a link yet to the mickelson comment?

 

[ELOCsoul]

Are you saying that le chose not to release information--like the rumored grabs? Or, are you making the point we are more informed and educated about sexual abuse? If the latter, I think we all agree. But, what was overlooked with this worldview?

No, I was referring to emeraldine's comment, pasted below, regarding these sorts of crimes being "taboo", or not, to talk about in the 1980's. I believe discussion of juvenile sex offenses was quite "taboo" then, and I would say they remain so today, though to a lesser extent. I think the public, LE, and the church turned a blind eye to the problem and swept it under the rug. Look at all the attempted abductions reported in the St. Cloud and Twin Cities areas before and after Jacob was taken. We never heard about all of these things until after Jacob was taken. This case woke the world up to a very serious problem, IMO.

In the mid 80's, we have the Chief of Police of Cold Spring worried about what the public would do to Fr. Hoefgen if they found out about him...worried about the criminal in the equation, apparently more so than the victim. No harm, no foul? It's just stunning, IMO, just stunning.

Quote Originally Posted by emeraldine View Post
It is true that it happened less often than it does, say, today, but I'm not remembering growing up in a Puritanical society in which these sorts of crimes were "taboo" to talk about in the 80s.

 

[bucshunter]

Perhaps then this is why DR will never confess even when cornered. His family could never live with this. Just curious, is there a link yet to the mickelson comment?

He didn't do it so no confession forthcoming

 

[Sasquatch321]

He didn't do it so no confession forthcoming

You have seen the results of the lie detector tests, hypnotisms, searches, items remaining in the lab, and interview transcripts in full detail to declare this?

 

[bucshunter]

You have seen the results of the lie detector tests, hypnotisms, searches, items remaining in the lab, and interview transcripts in full detail to declare this?

Speak for yourself you've convicted him already Sas. Why?